Quite simply my motivation is the fact that Islam will never change as long as the victims of its jihad continue to reassure Muslims there is nothing wrong with it.

Do you or do you not agree that there is something extremely wrong with Islam? Is it normal or acceptable in the 21st Century for a billion people to follow a religion who's central tenate is the spread of Islam through holy war (jihad)?

Should we just sit back and let them continue to threaten us?

I know many, many, many, many Muslims who don't care if it is spread, and do not want war of any sort.

Now, I know what you will say, I think, and that is, "well, then they are not Muslims." And that is just wrong, maybe they don't practice the fanatical Islam that you want them to (almost, it would seem).

Would you say that a Christian who is ok with abortion and gay marriage, is not a Christian?

Abortion and gay marriage is un-Christian. That does not disqualify Christians who support them. If there is a God and He cares about such things, he will decide.

Dislike of jihad is un-Muslim. That does not disqualify Muslims who sit on the sideline. But just as the Bible is expressly against homosexuality (as is the Qur'an), and just as Catholic doctrine is expressly against abortion, so too is Islamic doctrine against those who refuse to fight in the cause of Allah.

[009.038-39] O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the cause of Allâh (Jihâd) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world compared to the Hereafter. If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people.
[009.041] March forth, whether you are light (being healthy, young and wealthy) or heavy (being ill, old and poor), and strive hard with your wealth and your lives in the Cause of Allâh. This is better for you, if you but knew.
[009:081] Those who were left behind rejoiced at sitting still behind the Messenger of Allâh; they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allâh, and they said: Go not forth in the heat! Say: "The fire of hell is more intense in heat"; if only they could understand!
[008:015-016] O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve in a battlefield, never turn your backs to (flee from) them. And whoever turns his back to them on such a day-- unless it be a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)-- he indeed has drawn upon himself wrath from Allâh's. And his abode is hell, and worst indeed is that destination!

I for one am glad and thankful that the majority of Muslims do not partake in jihad, at least not directly. But the ratio of those who do fight vs those who don't is not reason enough to dismiss the violence and hostility towards non-Muslims codified in Islamic scripture.

It only takes a small number of Muslims to do great harm. In the end, it is Muslims who must take responsibility for this, and finally, after 1400 years, put a stop to it all.

How that can ever happen is beyond my comprehension. But it will never happen if we all insist nothing is wrong.

Well, if you notice what it says




When you meet them, do not turn away and flee...well you're damn right.
Should they just surrender and run everytime they face an invasion, of those who want to force them to live a different way?

You say they are trying to force the world to live a certain way, but in reality, it is them being forced to change their lives. And I'm sure that's exactly what you want.

Well, I'm done with all this, because we will never agree I assume, and I'm tired of talking to those who consider anyone who disagrees to be ignorant or "owned", because there is no conversation (not just you Ibn, this is for everyone).

Those who boast about their arrogance deserve retribution, and if these are the kind of people we are supposed to be saving from the evils of Islam, I hope you are right about how they want to kill all the non-believers, and Bism Allah Al-Rahman Al-Rahim, I hope they are successful.


[edit on 10-11-2004 by cstyle226]

cstyle226 have you ever actually seen combat? Have your ever looked and enemy in the eyes and killed them. Based on how you write I would say you are very young and a little brainwashed right now.

Sure you would...you are filled with arrogance. And it seems that you are the one that has become insane from your battles. You are now fighting a battle with paranoia and insanity...a battle, not unlike the jungles, you are being handily defeated.

I've served on the Iraq border, during the current invasion, made sure there no attacks there, which went relatively well, except for a short while at the beginning of the invasion.

[sarcasm]But I am glad you brought up your military service to prove your superiority to me. Thank you for putting me in my place.[/sarcasm]

You are clearly in need of post-war counseling, but I guess with Bush cutting benefits, the VA can't afford to take care of you.

You were "owned" when you tried to tell me the jihadists were only acting in self defense, and then when I called you out for it you decided to hurl insults. No one is forcing Muslims to live a certain way, except Allah. Why is it that some of the wealthiest nations on earth are among the most poor and desolate? You live in Turkey? With all the water resources in your country, why is it that vast populations of your people live in shantytowns?

Muslims have closed their minds to anything outside of what the Qur'an tells them. If you combine the exports of the entire Arabian Peninsula, and subtract oil, with 25 million people they export less than the country of Sweden with 5 million people. Is it because Arabs are inherently stupid or uncreative? Or is it because they are scared to seek material advance?

That area of the world was once the most enlightened in the arts and sciences. What happened to it?

Islam.

Only Allah tells Muslims what to think and how to think. Only when they stop listening to Allah will they ever get anywhere.

The jihad movement is nuetralized. They've been reduced to sending us videotapes, instead of bombs and other attacks.

For our next act, we will destroy them. But there is no doubt that the jihad will continue as soon as we turn our backs. For the West, it's been that way for 1400 years.

Well then, if that's the case.

Oh Allah, may the true believers spend this night in absolute devotion to you. Oh Allah, remove the darkness from our hearts and the slothfulness from our souls. Oh Allah, deliver the Muslims from their oppression and grant victory to our Mujahideen over the aggressors. Ameen.

cstyle226, nice try but you don't lie very well SON. I am a psychologist now specializing in children similar to you. Too much X-box "halo" in your life. Islam is evil always has been always will be. I don't blame you SON, its your mommies fault.

they must leave home and attack other lands to be good muslims
you are clearly the enemy

Marines or martyrs: Who do you think will get the virgins?

Actually I did, and thanks for calling me son, grandpa. But what I forgot to mention was my service was to the Turkish army, being that I am a citizen, and it is required.

Since you claim to be a psychologist, which is obviously false, and since your mind is beyond repair, you would have been able to discern that. But you did not, because you can do little more than call me names, and mock what you believe to be my age. You are the one acting rather childish, for one who claims to be a psychologist specializing in children...

Anyhow...

Oh Allah, may the true believers spend this night in absolute devotion to you. Oh Allah, remove the darkness from our hearts and the slothfulness from our souls. Oh Allah, deliver the Muslims from their oppression and grant victory to our Mujahideen over the aggressors. Ameen.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by cstyle226]

How will the marines fornicate with the virgins when they are missing their limbs?

I think that ATS members are, by and large, more worldly than your average Joe, and that the prejudice against Muslims is far less here. I myself lived in the Middle East (Riyadh, Saudi Arabia) for a few years, so it certainly helped me to gain a little perspective on this.

I think that most realize that acts of terrorism are those of a minority of Muslims, not the majority.

However, as such attacks increase (and under Bush they certainly will), we may see in our nation, a growing resentment of those who follow Islam.

Comments like those above, crying for Jihad, certainly aren't going to help much...congrats, as you're an accomplice to the eventual discrimination all Muslims are bound to experience sooner than later.

Well, Gazrok, when you listen to some of these people, Jihad doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

As a matter of fact, when I came to these forums about a year ago, I was adamantly against all that, but the more I read what these people are saying, the more sympathetic I am.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Hey cstyle226 meet me in Istanbul in two days. The Hyatt lobby. Would like to have a serious descussion about all this, seriously.

I'm sure you'd end up trying to stab me, or convert me, or whatever...

First, let's assume I could make it there in two days, which I wouldn't be able to, why would I?

Second, I live in America. I'm from Chicago.

Why did you waste your time trying to tell me I was wrong only to bring yourself to this?

Guess I really touched a nerve.

I thought you were wrong, but you must be right, since anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. I want to deny ignorance.
So,
You're saying their cause is evil, and not legitimate. You are saying their religion is evil. So what option does that leave if I support them?

I am evil, too, right?



[edit on 10-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Regardless of your actual age, you obviously have alot of growing up to do if this is the kind of silly little tantrums you throw when proven wrong. Perhaps it's best if I make use of the "ignore" function.