Islamophobia is it that bad on ATS?

No clip ,I was looking for quotes that are the same in the gospel of Christ and the Quran.
Since yo bolted from that other thread we can start again here .Is the Quran perfect and without contridiction?

[edit on 9-11-2004 by KAOSKTRL]

KAOSKTRL, do you mean quotes that convey the same message? Since the exact wording is not possible. The four officialy accepted Gospels were witten by different people and have different way of wording things, and Qur'an has been written 700 years after the Bible, by different people in different language. To which part of Christ message are you refering to?

I do not want to change topic here, I will answer you in the other thread later.

Oh one more thing, I am not sure, but your signature might be in violation of terms and conditions recently emphasized on ATS. You might wanna check that with mods.

Originally posted by cstyle226
Keep it up with your Crusader speak, and see what you get you in return.

Is that a threat?

Originally posted by sal88that's a load of bull there are reports of him requesting that the hadith should be burned after he died as it would lead to divisions of Islam.

Why should i follow accounts of his life that don't seem to add up? they are no where near even 80% rock solid evidence of how he really lived his life.

You're not a Muslim. And yes, the hadith is a bunch of crap. But they were not collected until decades after he died, so there are no reports of him ordering them destroyed because there was no hadith before he died.

But in religion perception is ALWAYS more important than reality. So while you and I know that the hadith (and everything else about Islam) is a joke, Muslims believe this and cannot practice Islam without believing in and following them.

why would anyone follow a religion that teaches this? you'd have to be retarded, is that why it flourished in asia? do the people over there have sum sort of gene disorder?

That's an excellent question. It's not so surprising in Muslim lands, since they are tought the Qur'an and practically nothing else from the time they're able to read. But for an American or a Westerner to convert, a la John Walker Lindh or that Hazzam the American guy we just saw on video, is one of life's great mysteries.

wow good to know the truth at last, are you a Muslim? because u seem to know more about Islam than me

Why would you act condescendingly towards a person who knows more than you? That's the height of ignorance.

And no, I'm not a Muslim. Just taking Sun Tzu's advice and knowing my enemy.

I'm agnostic, father was a non practicing Catholic mum a non practicing Church of England (dont even know what they call it in Australia today).

I take all people as they come, my likes & dislikes are based on the person, not the class, the profession, the colour, the faith the sex, the orienation...but on the person. If they are good fine. If they are jerks- the bird. I see terrorists or screaming chanting thousands on the Tv and yes they scare me. But I do not hate or fear the hundreds of millions of people who dont roll out for these hate fests. I do not fear or hate most of the Americans on this planet either.

If I was to take the extremes of religious belief and crusading as representative of the mass of humanity that profess or a nominally members of that faith, then I would be as terrified of christians as some people seem to think I should be of muslims.

If that was the basis some American tele evangalists and the reverend Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland who do scare the crap out of me would have me hating Christians. Like you expect guys like Bin Laden and Some of the nutjob clerics are supposed to make me hate all muslims.

Forget it.

I hate Frikkin Terrorists. Full stop. I dont even hate some of the insurgents, I just think they have been horribily horribily conned by thier recruiters and leaders into what to expect out of this in the end, Just like Bush and co have tried to con ALL of us.

I dont much want to see Bush rewarded, but not at the cost of the future of Iraq or our long term safety because as some of you may fear or hope, we are all screwed if the extremists win this one and make the US run. Because then the only chance any of us will have of fighting this one is when it reaches our own western streets. If we are lucky.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by craigandrew]

Ibin Iblis.

226's sign off and his recitals are enough to put anyone on edge, but as to whether there was a threat made against him I don't think so.

Just someone hoping his "heros" come a cropper, just as he has wished for the coalition forces to.

I talk to him because this is meant to be dialogue, but his sign off about Anne Coulter repells me.

Its why I choose not to have an avatar or catchy sign off. Sometimes I don't know whether to take the person who has either seriously or not.

No offense intended to everyone by the way.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by craigandrew]

Originally posted by bodrul
i know i may not get that many/no replys to this
so i will just post this anyway.

after reading some replys and topics by some people
i came to see that alot of people are islamaphobic

the reason i came to this because alot of people seem to blame the whole minority not just the the few that are causing the problems

This is not about muslims its about ideology
if your going to defend Islam you had better find out what your defending and there is only one place to do that the founding documents
DO you believe all ideologies are equal?

What matters more, the sacred Book or the way you live your life?

If you look at the Old Testament, and even parts of the new, there are intolerant and violent messages to be found there too. Of course you won't see people enacting it - luckily there are laws against killing homosexuals, because if there weren't you'd see people like that Kansas preacher (Fred something... somebody help me with the last name) and his flock going around "eliminating" a few. Lack of means does not mean lack of will.

There are fundamentalist, intolerant Christians. There are fundamentalist, intolerant Muslims. Just as the different Christian faiths - including the oldest ones, Catholicism and Orthodoxy - have struggled to adapt the message to our more enlightened age while some sects are trying to make it more radical, the same way a good number of Muslims (notably in Morocco and the north African countries) are looking at how the Sharia can be adapted to this day and age.

Of course you'll have people saying "Well, those moderate Muslims should condemn the actions of those who do blow up buildings and decapitate people!"

Among my friends who happen to be active Christians, there are some who tell me that their reaction when they see stupidities perpetrated in the name of Christ is simply to cast out, in their mind, the perpetrators as not being true Christians. When I went to Africa last year and asked some people what they thought of 9/11, they shook their head and said "Those people were not Muslims."

As for descending in the streets to condemn the actions of those extremists... human nature is, people have other things to do. Especially if they live in developing countries.

Originally posted by I left Islam
Bodrul - That's all you could come up with in answer to my post? Wanna see an entire forum for of ex-Muslims? www.faithfreedom.org...

I am "paz" in that forum.

What is your interest in protecting Islam from criticism? Do you think all religions should be exempt from criticism or only Islam?

Tell us what YOU know about Islam that makes you object to those of us who are against it.



[edit on 9-11-2004 by I left Islam]

first nothing personale but thats first impresion i got
because there are alot of narrow minded people around
that would do anything to manipulate things

secoundly
i belive you were a muslim
question born or did you change to islam?


see an entire forum for of ex-Muslims? www.faithfreedom.org...
I am "paz" in that forum.

i just red a few topics and most sound like bull ( sorry they do )
why muslims cant keep cats ( my mother had 2 )
and other stupid things that i dont want to post and explain



secoundly read these they are from christians and so on that converted to Islam ( sit has been reset or something old posts removed )

I've Just Reverted (Converted) to Islam

Why Did They Revert (Convert) To Islam

What is your interest in protecting Islam from criticism? Do you think all religions should be exempt from criticism or only Islam?

i dont think that ( all cultures are critercised everyday )
but always asociating the actions of a few on the whole minority i do care about,



[edit on 9-11-2004 by bodrul]

Forgive me for not knowing the exact figure, by war of comparison.

If you can add up all the supporters of the insurgents and terrorists, including those who come out into the streets around the world to cheer and shout......its what.....several hundreds of thousands, a couple of million?.

Thats not counting people reasonably uncomfortable, unhappy and angry with the fact that thier culture, possibly thier old homeland and even members of thier family are being killed and maimed in this. There are plenty of non muslims uncomfortable, unhappy and angry about it too.

But thats still a very small minority when you consider thats theres what? Several hundred million (? at least) Muslims in the world?

Dumping them all into the same bucket is like saying that all Americans are Nazis or stupid because they vote for Bush.

Ibn Iblis,

Why are Muslims your enemy? Is there an all out war between every Muslims on this planet against every non-muslim? If so, please, for everyones sake, fill me in. All i see is fundamentalist Christians against Fundamentalist Muslims.

You seem very ignorant and use 'certain' verses out of whatever Islamic text that falls in your lap, to make your point --whatever that is; there is an ample amount of Islamic texts that perceieve Muhhameds 'teachings' in thier own accord depending on the sociopolitical atmosphere written at the time.

You're name is offensive aswell, not only that, you have only partaken in threads pertaining to Islam....

Muslims are as violent as Jews; muslims are as violent as Buddhists; Muslims are as violent as Sikhs; Muslims are as violent as Christians.

Deep

But in religion perception is ALWAYS more important than reality. So while you and I know that the hadith (and everything else about Islam) is a joke, Muslims believe this and cannot practice Islam without believing in and following them.


That's an excellent question. It's not so surprising in Muslim lands, since they are tought the Qur'an and practically nothing else from the time they're able to read. But for an American or a Westerner to convert, a la John Walker Lindh or that Hazzam the American guy we just saw on video, is one of life's great mysteries.

What muslim lands? Prove to me they are taught nothing but Islamic doctrine. What is wrong with converting to Islam ? Have you heard of Sufism, the highly spiritual and metaphysical aspect of Islam ? I want to see some emperical facts that ascertain the notion that Muslims are taught nothing but thier own creed in thier countries.

Also, what hadith are you talking about?

Deep

Originally posted by bodrul
first nothing personale but thats first impresion i got
because there are alot of narrow minded people around
that would do anything to manipulate things

secoundly
i belive you were a muslim
question born or did you change to islam?

I was a convert. I converted first and then got married. My story is here: knowislam.info... (Yes this is my website)

see an entire forum for of ex-Muslims? www.faithfreedom.org...
I am "paz" in that forum.

i just red a few topics and most sound like bull ( sorry they do )
why muslims cant keep cats ( my mother had 2 )
and other stupid things that i dont want to post and explain

Yes there are some bigoted people and false things said about Islam on that forum. I know nothing about Muslims not being able to have cat, in fact I am pretty sure Muslims may have cats and that many Muslims enjoy cats, etc.

Muslims are, however not encouraged to have dogs.

Hadith - Bukhari 3:515, Narrated Abu Huraira - Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily, unless the dog is used for guarding a farm or cattle." Abu Huraira (in another narration) said from the Prophet, "unless it is used for guarding sheep or farms, or for hunting." Narrated Abu Hazim from Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A dog for guarding cattle or for hunting."

Hadith - Bukhari 3:515, Narrated Abu Huraira - I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal)."

secoundly read these they are from christians and so on that converted to Islam ( sit has been reset or something old posts removed )

I've Just Reverted (Converted) to Islam

Why Did They Revert (Convert) To Islam

Yes I know that sometimes Christians and others convert to Islam. There is a whole complicated way in which certain things about Islam are hush hushed about, especially around a prospective convert.

Christianity deserves its own criticism and questioning, but the difference is that there are no terrorists commiting atrocities in the name of Christ or Christianity today, but it happens in the name of Islam.

Christianity does not aspire to establish any theocracies or any other thing equivalent to a khalifa.

The fact is, there are Muslims in the world (not all) who support this idea, who when living in non Islamic countrie feel NO sense of loyalty or respect for that nation, etc. There are people (Muslim people) activiely pursuing making western countries Islamic.

How likely that is to happen? I'd nope not very, but Islam and what it does teach is worth taking seriously.

Many of the Muslims who are nice good people still will refuse to denounce such ideas and also think us Kafir are filthy pork-eating & immoral.

What is your interest in protecting Islam from criticism? Do you think all religions should be exempt from criticism or only Islam?

i dont think that ( all cultures are critercised everyday )
but always asociating the actions of a few on the whole minority i do care about,

I too care about that, but to what extent? Islam MUST be examined, questioned, and scrutinized. If that offends some people, then so be it.

Again I will say, that many Muslims are good people at heart, DESPITE Islam! I sincerely wish that they could be free to leave Islam without fearing for their lives, or fearing being disowned by their families, or having to live a lie for fear of the consequences.

That's nice that you came here with the name "I left Islam"...

So you created an account to tell us how Islam is bad, and that you wish "Muslims could leave Islam?"

Somehow, I doubt you.

Originally posted by cstyle226
That's nice that you came here with the name "I left Islam"...

So you created an account to tell us how Islam is bad, and that you wish "Muslims could leave Islam?"

Somehow, I doubt you.

Why? If I left Islam, why would I not want to tell people why? Islam calls for my death, so I definitley want to talk about it!

I used the name "I left Islam" because whenever I talk about Islam on forums people assume I am just another person out there with no personal knowledge of Islam, and that is not true. I think the nick does a good job explaining where I am coming from.

Do you have a problem with the fact that I left Islam?

[edit on 9-11-2004 by I left Islam]

[edit on 9-11-2004 by I left Islam]

So you came to these forums for the sole purpose of telling people why you left Islam?

Yes, I did. Is there something wrong with that?

This has been a good thread! Most are keeping their cool and that is a good thing. I want to relate something that was asked ealier, the comments and quotes about Christ in the Koran. He is indeed a high Prophet but nothing else in Islam as far as my understanding. He is not the Redeemer.

I want to ask the moslems here a question.

When Muhammed first met with Gabriel.................

The traditional Sunni account of this event is given in an article written by Shaykh Ahmad Zaki Hammad, Ph.D., captioned "Be Hopeful," published in the magazine, Islamic Horizons of the Islamic Society of North America, Plainfield, Indiana, May-June 1987, as follows:
"The Prophet (pbuh) in the early stages in Makkah, feared that the revelation experience was an evil touch preying upon him, playing with him mentally, upsetting his tranquility and peace of mind. He was afraid that one of the jinn had touched him. He expressed this to Khadija. His fear increased to the point that --- and please don't be surprised by an authentic report in Bukhari --- the Prophet (pbuh) preferred to take his own life rather than to be touched by evil, to be tampered with, corrupted, or polluted."

home.swipnet.se...



Now when I read this, I see an evil encounter, as did Muhammed. When he speaks of the jinn, that would be equated to a Nephilim I would think.

What if his first inclinations were correct?

The problem I have with this "Encounter" with Gabriel is that, Gabriel is an archangel and could not deny God, yet Christ identified himself as "I Am" and that there is no other way unto the Father.

Now I realize that the concept of Trinity is an abomination to a moslem, but I truly feel they do not understand what is meant by that. They are ONE, yet distinct.

Now I am not trying to pick a fight, as I would like a serious answer to this one.

What if Gabriel was not who he claimed to be? Not the same one that announced the Savior? What if?

[edit on 10-11-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by I left Islam
Yes, I did. Is there something wrong with that?

You said Islam calls for your death, and that's why you left it. But according to your logic, if you were of Islam, it wasn't calling for your death, so what I'm gathering from your statements, is that you are lying about leaving Islam, and that you were never part of Islam, and that the only reason you are saying Islam is calling for your death is because you believe that everyone who is not of Islam (like you), is required to be killed by those who are.

But whatever your background, I join them in their call.

Plus, since so many of you believe Islam is calling for the death of everyone who is not of Islam, then it would be safe to assume from that logic that terrorism will never end.

But you want it to end, right? So what do you suggest, murdering every Muslim on the planet?

See the circle there, by demonizing Islam...you are demonizing yourselves in Islam's eyes (but since you believe you already are demonized in Islam's eyes, you're not giving yourself a chance).

So going with the discussion here, the only solution is an all out war, and whichever side achieves genocide first, wins.

Sound good?


Disclaimer: Not serious...meant to provoke thought.