Military Coup Underway In Egypt...

Originally posted by Rodinus

Originally posted by TheWetCoast
reply to post by Rodinus

 

It is very disturbing to hear of violence in Egypt.Violence has a tendency to spiral out of control(like throwing gas onto a fire). The whole situation leaves me with a bad feeling that I can't ignore.

Agreed TWC,

I personally believe that this is just the beginning of an extremely bloody series of events!

Just watch what will happen after the last prayer today!

Kindest respects

Rodinus

edit on 5-7-2013 by Rodinus because: Word added

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

William Butler Yeats

reply to post by johncarter


At least quote all of it including the end. Especially given the Egyptian imagery in it.

'Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

reply to post by Rodinus


agreed. you have a nice recap here, on al arabiya with good english subs.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

The more Al Qaeda backs this guy up, the more I know he's a western puppet and that the US didn't want this coup. I'm going to keep looking and tossing around ideas but my gut tells me they weren't suspecting this and Kerry's on his yacht hiding down in a bottle of scotch or something, dialing up his counter-coup friends.

I personally do not care for any theocratic government to put it mildly, but iran is not part of the alqueda plot to destabilise the middle east, at least this much seems certain to me. Alqueda are religious fanatics and western puppets at the same time.

The west is only against islam on paper and it whenever it suits them they use alqueda and the muslim brotherhood to their advantage. Apparently not all religious fanatics are the same. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy that tolerates whabbis and alqueda.

In other words some groups are elitist infiltrated and others are not. I support the second egyptian revolution much more than I supported the first one. Arab Spring seemed suspect to me from day 1 considering it spread extremely fast throughout the middle east based on superficial reasons.

Originally posted by frazzle

Voice of Russia talks to Mark Glenn, a writer for American Free Press Newspaper and a co-founder of the Crescent and Cross Solidarity Movement. According to Mr Glenn, US troops are heavily involved in 'Egyptian Revolution 2.0'. American army not only informed Egyptian military on how to bring about 'smooth military coup', but also assisted Sissi in 'unseating' Morsi.
Read more: english.ruvr.ru...

(Excerpt from interview) Whether or not Morsi had crossed some line with regards to the US in forming these close ties with Iran, despite cutting up diplomatic ties with Syria, nevertheless Morsi was firmly opposed any outside military intervention in Syria. And this Quartet group that he himself has formed that was going to bring all these players together in the ME and basically cut the West out of this discussion, this is very possible that he got under the skin of some very powerful people in Washington and this is the reason why they decided that it was time for him to go.
Read more: english.ruvr.ru...

english.ruvr.ru...

Cutting out the west? Say it isn't so .... send in the cavalry.

'Whoever comes to power after Morsi, he has been vetted by US' - expert

No offense man because we normally agree on stuff, but what you quoted sounds like a case of severe disinfo.

When obama says he is very concerned about the military ousting morsi and suspending the constitution, even making threats to withdraw financial aid to egypt, then that is all the confirmation I need to know this revolution is as legitimate and anti-elitist as it can possibly be.

Sure USA may try to make ammends, pay off people, start double talking, planting fake news stories, whatever, but it only reiterates the feeling I have.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

When obama says he is very concerned about the military ousting morsi and suspending the constitution, even making threats to withdraw financial aid to egypt, then that is all the confirmation I need to know this revolution is as legitimate and anti-elitist as it can possibly be.

I'm sure you've heard the maxim "oppose what you propose and propose what you oppose". Sometimes that phrase seems tailor made for Obama. Or maybe its just for his speech writers who load all of "his thoughts" onto the teleprompter.

Yes, you and I do agree of many things and the fact that the revolution is legit is one of them, but there are infiltrators from the outside doing their level best to drive the revolutionaries deeper into their net. Its a technique that's probably as old as the pyramids and I'm damned tired of it working so well. That's why just about all my hopes are pinned on the Egyptians and the Syrians to finally put an end to it. We certainly won't.


ETA: I'd better clarify "revolutionaries" because the so called rebels in Syria aren't that, as we all know by now, they are US/UK/Israeli/Saudi tools sent in to destroy civilizations thousands of years older than our own. Morsi got sucked in but the revolution goes on. Hopefully.

Originally posted by frazzle

I'm sure you've heard the maxim "oppose what you propose and propose what you oppose". Sometimes that phrase seems tailor made for Obama. Or maybe its just for his speech writers who load all of "his thoughts" onto the teleprompter.

I think this time team obama got caught with their pants down in the metaphorical sense. I don't think they expected this outcome in egpyt at all. I think the egptian military pulled 'a fast one' on the ptb in the fullest of sense. I don't think the egptian military could have done differently given that millions of protesters were against morci and specifically chanted anti-obama slogans. The military had to listen to the demands of the majority or there would have been much more bloodshed. The MB was not as powerful as they claimed to be and elections have been claimed fraudulent for quite some time now.

There is no guarantee that it is all over in egypt, that MB have given up and that they will not continue another day. There is no gurantee that ptb will accept defeat by not trying something else. I simply think some people(including yourself) are reading too much conspiracy where one probably does not exist. Time will tell what happens.

As for syria there appears to be a reversal of progress for the rebels in favor of assad. I welcome this news.

Clash going on right now

rt.com...

You can view it, this is only the start i'm afraid.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by frazzle

I'm sure you've heard the maxim "oppose what you propose and propose what you oppose". Sometimes that phrase seems tailor made for Obama. Or maybe its just for his speech writers who load all of "his thoughts" onto the teleprompter.

I think this time team obama got caught with their pants down in the metaphorical sense. I don't think they expected this outcome in egpyt at all. I think the egptian military pulled 'a fast one' on the ptb in the fullest of sense. I don't think the egptian military could have done differently given that millions of protesters were against morci and specifically chanted anti-obama slogans. The military had to listen to the demands of the majority or there would have been much more bloodshed. The MB was not as powerful as they claimed to be and elections have been claimed fraudulent for quite some time now.

There is no guarantee that it is all over in egypt, that MB have given up and that they will not continue another day. There is no gurantee that ptb will accept defeat by not trying something else. I simply think some people(including yourself) are reading too much conspiracy where one probably does not exist. Time will tell what happens.

As for syria there appears to be a reversal of progress for the rebels in favor of assad. I welcome this news.

I think you are pretty much right on some of this although its not that cut and dried. So many factions, so many lies. And I'm fairly certain it isn't even close to over!

But are you saying the CIA and other US government/corporate behind the scenes infiltration and instigation is not a conspiracy to overthrow Egypt's sovereignty and impose another western puppet? After all the examples we have to draw from?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I have to dissagree, The leader of the brotherhood of muslims, has confirmed they they had conformation from the 23rd June that they had a one week opportunity to solve the problem.

Originally posted by frazzle

I think you are pretty much right on some of this although its not that cut and dried. So many factions, so many lies. And I'm fairly certain it isn't even close to over!

But are you saying the CIA and other US government/corporate behind the scenes infiltration and instigation is not a conspiracy to overthrow Egypt's sovereignty and impose another western puppet? After all the examples we have to draw from?

I think the ptb got dealt a major blow and that they are trying to recover from it. They may pay the new government some favors in an effort to win them over. They may force the IMF agreements that you mentioned earlier as binding in a fraudulent manner. They could kill generals. They could kill judges. They could do some things.

Originally posted by Senduko
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I have to dissagree, The leader of the brotherhood of muslims, has confirmed they they had conformation from the 23rd June that they had a one week opportunity to solve the problem.

So what? How does that prove conspiracy?

One week isnt that much.

One week on Intelligence is like 100 years for us. I'm not Saying its a conspiracy, i'm just saying they knew this was coming since the 23rd of june.

Originally posted by Senduko
One week on Intelligence is like 100 years for us. I'm not Saying its a conspiracy, i'm just saying they knew this was coming since the 23rd of june.

And the western media covered it up quite well the entire time.

The second clue was from obama's lips...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I think the ptb got dealt a major blow and that they are trying to recover from it. They may pay the new government some favors in an effort to win them over. They may force the IMF agreements that you mentioned earlier as binding in a fraudulent manner. They could kill generals. They could kill judges. They could do some things.

Just heard the US will continue sending aid to the "new" government in Egypt. It would be so satisfying if they rejected the money, now THAT would be a major blow to tptb although I'm pretty sure they'll accept it. Otherwise you're on the money about killing generals etc. until they do accept it

Agreed the IMF agreement will be deemed binding.

I'm waiting for Putin to state Russia's position ... well, I've not been paying enough attention so he may have already made a statement and I just don't know what he said.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I think the ptb got dealt a major blow and that they are trying to recover from it. They may pay the new government some favors in an effort to win them over. They may force the IMF agreements that you mentioned earlier as binding in a fraudulent manner. They could kill generals. They could kill judges. They could do some things.

Just heard the US will continue sending aid to the "new" government in Egypt. It would be so satisfying if they rejected the money, now THAT would be a major blow to tptb although I'm pretty sure they'll accept it. Otherwise you're on the money about killing generals etc. until they do accept it

Agreed the IMF agreement will be deemed binding.

I'm waiting for Putin to state Russia's position ... well, I've not been paying enough attention so he may have already made a statement and I just don't know what he said.

They have commented... not to make exact quotes but it's basically I told you so kind of stuff and this is what happens when a country that is not suited for democracy becomes a democracy etc etc...

While not really saying anything that can give you an idea of how they really REALLY feel about it, it's still pretty interesting to try to decipher the nonchalant yet cautiously aware way it's put. I haven't read anything new today yet... but you should check it out.

I don't know whether or not to be intrigued by the statements or not.

Now if the country suddenly becomes a dictatorship or some other form of non democratic government... then i will have to remember those comments with a brow considerably raised. I know that probably wouldn't make the people happy because they want to be able to decide and be able to complain...so on and so forth, but when it comes to electing presidents...what do they really want and do they even know. I'm not saying they are incapable of knowing or anything like that. I mean is there really any way they CAN know. We think we have choices yet we never EVER know...do we?

So what is their biggest concern and who is the leader to solve it?

What do they want to see happen the most?... because I seriously doubt that it's being uncertain and torn between candidates that they can't be certain about.

I ponder this because perhaps it's true that some countries are better off as being what we would think of as a more extreme form of government, but it really all depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

I personally think that russia and China have decent leaderships right now but take China for example. Xi Jinpings father was an important military person in their last civil war... Don't quote me on this because I'm not reading it right now but from what i recall, he directly helped Mao Zedong in some way concerning some type of garrison incident as they were realizing that the nationalists were not all they were cracked up to be and more people were beginning to side with the communists. I can't remember what it was exactly but he did something that paved the way for the success of the communists...so, his family has direct history with the plight of the communist party...even though he is president. What i'm saying is even though other leaders chose him, it certainly wasn't a campaigned ballot box type of election. Some may frown upon that but actually, it's very important that they get people who have a deep understanding for the plight of the nation because they were brought up with this understanding...in this case carried down from his father if the story is what it appears to be.

What they need is someone who sees the big picture in Egypt, not just the type of campaign topics that they keep us stirred up on in the west.

i mean hell, if we were still rooted in our forefathers wishes for this country, wouldn't we be giving London bankers the finger?....and that is so NOT what we are doing.

i don't mean to pick on Britain so much... but they have a pretty damn long running dictatorship and they need to grow the balls to come out and admit it and stop trying to convince the world that they are better than the rest of it.

Bit of extra news for you folks :

EGYPT'S Islamists have vowed further protests to demand the army restore the country's first democratically-elected leader Mohamed Morsi, after a day of clashes which saw 30 people killed across the country.

www.news.com.au...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Originally posted by Rodinus
Bit of extra news for you folks :

EGYPT'S Islamists have vowed further protests to demand the army restore the country's first democratically-elected leader Mohamed Morsi, after a day of clashes which saw 30 people killed across the country.

www.news.com.au...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

The difference between a humble and devout muslim, versus a stone throwing, sharia demanding islamist, whom although sais he is a man of Allah, yet carries the mark of beastly violence in his heart, is so vast it is hard to measure.

Anyways, Tahir sqr seems empty now. The wolves in sheeps clothing have tired of stone throwing and gun shooting and gone home. Perhaps things might return to a new normal, and hopefully a brave new world in Egypt might rise with the next sun?

Puts shades on and waits for the sun to rise....

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I think the ptb got dealt a major blow and that they are trying to recover from it. They may pay the new government some favors in an effort to win them over. They may force the IMF agreements that you mentioned earlier as binding in a fraudulent manner. They could kill generals. They could kill judges. They could do some things.

Just heard the US will continue sending aid to the "new" government in Egypt. It would be so satisfying if they rejected the money, now THAT would be a major blow to tptb although I'm pretty sure they'll accept it. Otherwise you're on the money about killing generals etc. until they do accept it

Agreed the IMF agreement will be deemed binding.

I'm waiting for Putin to state Russia's position ... well, I've not been paying enough attention so he may have already made a statement and I just don't know what he said.

They have commented... not to make exact quotes but it's basically I told you so kind of stuff and this is what happens when a country that is not suited for democracy becomes a democracy etc etc...

While not really saying anything that can give you an idea of how they really REALLY feel about it, it's still pretty interesting to try to decipher the nonchalant yet cautiously aware way it's put. I haven't read anything new today yet... but you should check it out.

I don't know whether or not to be intrigued by the statements or not.

So what is their biggest concern and who is the leader to solve it?

What do they want to see happen the most?... because I seriously doubt that it's being uncertain and torn between candidates that they can't be certain about.

I ponder this because perhaps it's true that some countries are better off as being what we would think of as a more extreme form of government, but it really all depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

What they need is someone who sees the big picture in Egypt, not just the type of campaign topics that they keep us stirred up on in the west.

i mean hell, if we were still rooted in our forefathers wishes for this country, wouldn't we be giving London bankers the finger?....and that is so NOT what we are doing.

i don't mean to pick on Britain so much... but they have a pretty damn long running dictatorship and they need to grow the balls to come out and admit it and stop trying to convince the world that they are better than the rest of it.

Yes, its a good idea to check out whatever Putin says about any situation because while Russia is making deals, the US is making wars. Same with China, which seems to be holding a full deck of trading cards. I still can't find any definitive statements made by either of them on what, if any, participation they have in mind for Egypt, they're still talking about keeping the west out of Syria through negotiations. But WE don't talk with terrorists, we just fund them.

Its really hard for people to get over the old paradigm and accept that just about everything has changed. The US and GB are financially broken and about all they produce anymore are weapons that fuel sectarian violence everywhere they do business. Most of us are pretty sick of it.

But since the eastern mindset seems so inscrutable to us westerners, we are left to guess what Russia and China are doing and my guess is that they're doing everything they can to peacefully dry up what's left of the US and British economies without firing any bullets and watch it fall. I'd have to say that's probably the smartest thing for any of us to do, too, and we could help burst this insane bubble the bankers have thrown up around the world if we'd just sit back and do nothing to keep it inflated.

BTW, the US never threw out the London bankers, it was all sleight of hand. The founders did heavy personal business behind the scenes with the British and French bankers all along, it was just George III they wanted to throw out so they could become kings in their own right in their own land. They did, too. It truly pi$$e$ everyone off when I say that, but if you study the founder's biographies its clear as day. They were proud to call themselves American, but they were British elitists to the bone and the fact is that they sold the American people to the financiers for personal gain and status. The war of 1812 was good cover for what they'd done. We have been carefully taught to hail them as heroes.

Unfortunately there's nothing we can do for Egypt or Syria or the rest of the world right now because all these "superpowers" have left to force their will on the world are bombs and bullets to fling around in their dying breath and a lot of people are going to die, probably including a lot of us, before they run out of ammo.

Sorry.

Yes, its a good idea to check out whatever Putin says about any situation because while Russia is making deals, the US is making wars. Same with China, which seems to be holding a full deck of trading cards. I still can't find any definitive statements made by either of them on what, if any, participation they have in mind for Egypt, they're still talking about keeping the west out of Syria through negotiations. But WE don't talk with terrorists, we just fund them. Its really hard for people to get over the old paradigm and accept that just about everything has changed. The US and GB are financially broken and about all they produce anymore are weapons that fuel sectarian violence everywhere they do business. Most of us are pretty sick of it. But since the eastern mindset seems so inscrutable to us westerners, we are left to guess what Russia and China are doing and my guess is that they're doing everything they can to peacefully dry up what's left of the US and British economies without firing any bullets and watch it fall. I'd have to say that's probably the smartest thing for any of us to do, too, and we could help burst this insane bubble the bankers have thrown up around the world if we'd just sit back and do nothing to keep it inflated. BTW, the US never threw out the London bankers, it was all sleight of hand. The founders did heavy personal business behind the scenes with the British and French bankers all along, it was just George III they wanted to throw out so they could become kings in their own right in their own land. They did, too. It truly pi$$e$ everyone off when I say that, but if you study the founder's biographies its clear as day. They were proud to call themselves American, but they were British elitists to the bone and the fact is that they sold the American people to the financiers for personal gain and status. The war of 1812 was good cover for what they'd done. We have been carefully taught to hail them as heroes. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do for Egypt or Syria or the rest of the world right now because all these "superpowers" have left to force their will on the world are bombs and bullets to fling around in their dying breath and a lot of people are going to die, probably including a lot of us, before they run out of ammo. Sorry

Oh, I realize that fighting is going to continue in many areas & there *are* some very unstable people there but there are also many innocent people as you know. There are plenty of unstable people *here* as well. Despite this, many have taken the stance that they'ld rather give guns to what they want to call unstable people because even though they can't deny this monstrosity of a conspiracy the west has created, They wont admit it out of fear. They're afraid of what they're seeing in Syria & they just don't want it to spread here, so they think they can dissolve it by fueling it.

What they don't understand is that is just as murderous as being out on the street in Syria killing people.
You're right that we need to look at OUR actions FIRST & make sure that we dont echo what unstable people do. We need to help those that we can help, not try to incinerate the problem & they don't understand the gravity of that. I'm referring to average citizens in America who are afraid & keep beating the pro psuedo-democracy drum & turning a blind eye to the evil that is being perpetuated in Western powers.

That's why you're right to say that it's best for the East to allow that slow trickle of rust & rot that is probably going to change the whole system, rather than make a lot of sudden moves. The anti-imperialists have waited a long time to see this & they've earned the right to call themselves patient. That's a characteristic I'm seeing repeatedly in eastern powers right now. A slow steady hand well played. I'm not saying there will never come a point in time when they lose their patience, because they very well could in response to what the US gov does, because it has done some incredibly dumb things, but they know by now that being rash comes back to bite, so they are being smart & crafty with their moves. This really scares people but those people aren't thinking or looking at the whole picture.

What the East is doing by pulling the rug out from underneath the more evil PTB are not acts of violence, they are peaceful, even if crafty maneuvers. Fearful people see this as a work up to something very violent that is going to completely destroy US society. A violent take over. They should consider making themselves worthwhile of the movement & not fueling any Western stupidity by continuing to beat that drum & less people will get hurt.

I hear what you are saying about the US founding loud & clear. Within 10 years after the revolution started, the English were financing our central bank. We went from excessive taxes to interest. They allow us to believe we are free. We were never free. We were a product of the crown.