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posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 08:51 PM
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1. Not a cowboy.
2. Do not agree with killing children.
3. War Sucks.

How hard is it. this is cut and dry. If you are a true American citizen, start worrying about death here at home. Children are killed everyday by gang and drug violence in the UNited States. Children drown in pools weekly in FLorida. People leave there kids in cars with the windows rolled up. People eat the last of the food in the house before their children. These are the people you should be provoking or out chasing and trying to give a better life too.

If you are born in a country such as Iraq, what are your options right now? I can flee to another country (and don't give me that they could get killed #) and try to make something for my family, or i should stay in war torn cities where there is a country BOMBING me everyday because some terrorist assholes took over my city.

Do you think the black guy in south Central who worked and lived his whole goddamn live to retire with a piket fence in the 60's likes to see Tre and Boney slanging rock in the corner. Hell no, and when it became a warzone, lots of people moved. Understand, Mooooooved. Is it right, no, but was the safe and smart thing to do.

The folks in Falluja need to stop "keeping it real" to quote Dave Chappelle.




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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By the way the population of fallujah is about 100,000 the Americans "believe" that 14 hundred insurgents were hiding in the city, the interim government of Iraq advice the people to live the city but taking in consideration that they can't go to the nearest "oasis" motel down the road due to "lack" of accommodations perhaps because it may have been "destroyed" in one of the "coalition" bombings" A third of the population remained behind.

Now taking in consideration that a third of the population did not leave because the "Hilton" was no ready, guess who is dying in Fallujah?

You got it, the civilians are the casualties, the insurgents probably left before the attacks.

Yeah US and coalition is having the best training in their lives with live targets.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Reading some of the excuses in here for the death of innocents like these babies, hardens my heart against the perpetrators. Obviously, the people of Iraq mean nothing at all to the supporters of this war, They have no remorse, no feeling of pain or empathy toward the innocent, none at all, that is saved for when one of theirs returns in a body bag, for obviously the point made is that only lost lives of the coalition forces have any value.

Blaming the citizens of Fallujah for not getting out is heartless. They should leave their homes to go where exactly? All of Iraq is unsafe. Why is it so easy to expect citizens to uproot, leave everything behind while you sit safely in front of your monitors in your warm cozy homes as you send others to kill and be killed? You forget something, something of utmost importance; you are killing the people you claim to be freeing. How can you possibly reconcile your cause for this war, to liberate the people with Iraq, with your decidedly cold excuse and merciless condoning of this rampage to kill same? How many of these dead liberated people exactly are you willing to accept to proclaim that your goal of liberation has been met, 1,000,000? Would it be a glorious victory to have wiped out 75% of the population to have 25% bow at your feet?

Yes, some Iraqis are sick and tired of the carnage, but all is not as Rumsfeld or you, or Bush portrays it to be, because while you revel in your glorious deed of self-imposed saviour, you curiously refuse to acknowledge that most Iraqis are not supporting you. Iraqis are not willing to bury their loved ones, their infants especially, so that you can declare your mission accomplished, and they can mourn the hole in their hearts forever. Iraqis as a whole are not supporting your campaign, if they did, they would be turning in the insurgents, and the anarchy would be halted by the masses, not you. Yours is blind idealism etched on the barrel of a gun, cheered by a cry of jingoism, and pursued with the fervour of self-styled saviours who see themselves as leaders of the free world, bringers of peace, justice and the American way. Well, the American way it is not, you do not need to force your ideals on the rest of the world, and 49% of your own citizenry do not support you in your massacre.

I am reminded of a live feed from Baghdad shortly after Husseins statue fell. Iraqi men were peacefully marching carrying a banner that read; Yankee go home. They were met by a line of assault rifle carrying soldiers, and as they pressed onward, the camera happened to be on one GI in particular who decided to yell into the crowd: We are here to give you your f***ing freedom, back off! How that has stayed with me all of these months, and how I knew then, that had you really been there to give them their freedom, no one would have found it necessary to bark that declaration esentially proclaiming that you make the decisions for them.

The price for the Iraqis is very high, I empathize greatly, and I empathize with the loss of coalition members and the havoc this war will wreak in their futures. From the mental illnesses to the effects of DU on their bodies and their offspring, to the destitution that many as with the GWI vets will find themselves in as their killer commanders abandon them in the end. But that empathy for the latter wanes, for those soldiers have an ethical responsibility to take the higher compassionate ground and just say, no! for the ordinary citizen who backs this genocidal affair, I have no compassion at all.

GrndlkNatv, never give in, and never be silenced, for your cause is just. Saddam may have been a madman and a killer of his own people, but those that use him as an excuse for surpass their own killing of his people delude themselves into thinking that he was worse than they are.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:52 AM
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A story.....

A retired special forces Sergeant Major. 3 combat tours in SEA/Vietnam - the last running clandestine missions with SOG. In Iraq now as we speak as a security technician. Here's what he says and you can pretty much apply it to US foreign policy,

If Kuwait had been growing sweet potatoes in the desert there is no way in hell that the US would have 'liberated' them from the occupying Iraqis.

So, now change the sentence around a little. If IRAQ were growing sweet potatoes and not sitting on some of the worlds largest untapped oil reserves do you think the US would still invade (Keep in mind that the US is the worlds largest consumer of oil at 25% yet they are not even close to the top 10 oil producing nations)

Let that sink in to your coconut for a second. East Timor - where is the US. Columbia - where is the US. Mexico for Christs sake - where is the US the Sudan and Dafur - where the hell is the US.

I know that you can only do so much ass a nation but literally sitting by and watching acts of Genocide (I believe it was Powell who stated so) is unforgiveable.

I am proud that my country did not support the US charge throuh the sandbox and I am proud that our friends in Mexico opposed as well. We have both paid dearly in trading with the US but at least we are a nation with a clear conscience



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:54 AM
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With the interm government declaring martial law in Fallujah what does that impose. Seems to me an open ticket to shoot anything that moves without any ramifications wouldn't it.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by Beuford
With the interm government declaring martial law in Fallujah what does that impose. Seems to me an open ticket to shoot anything that moves without any ramifications wouldn't it.



Just a legalized form of murder, military version of james bond 007 license to kill. bad thing is when unleashed can they stop those troops before we own Iraq due to default......cause no Iraqi's left to oppose the interm goverment signing over title to the US so to speak.....I know the US won't
get title of the sovereign country of Iraq , but makes you think if that isn't a possibility...



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 02:57 AM
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1st I do feel sorry that anyone man, woman or child has to live through war that said.

All you bleeding heart liberals, the poor child, Our Government (BUSH) BLA BLA BLA. I wish you lived in Iraq under Hussein or better yet as a Jew or an African or any of the oppressed peoples in Germany during Hitlers time. Would you be crying about the babies the mothers fathers that died so that war could save you from the GAS?

You sit in your nice house with your nice computer and you read all this liberal garbage being spewed out at you from your computer monitor, T.V. Radio and think being nice and talking will make everything better. That you can reason with evil.

The fact is some Humans are evil period! They have no compassion or love of others.
They have been this way since the beginning of time and you will Never be able to talk them into being nice and play by the rules the only thing you can do to protect your self from that kind of person is to KILL them first and if that means someone else has to DIE to keep me and mine safe so be it.

And for all you idiots who think this war was about us getting OIL from Iraq Please read the reports on what its going to cost and how long its going to take to bring the Iraq oil fields back up to full production from what Hussein did to them during the first war.

Read every thing not just what makes you feel good and you might LEARN something.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
By the way the population of fallujah is about 100,000 the Americans "believe" that 14 hundred insurgents were hiding in the city, the interim government of Iraq advice the people to live the city but taking in consideration that they can't go to the nearest "oasis" motel down the road due to "lack" of accommodations perhaps because it may have been "destroyed" in one of the "coalition" bombings" A third of the population remained behind.

Now taking in consideration that a third of the population did not leave because the "Hilton" was no ready, guess who is dying in Fallujah?

You got it, the civilians are the casualties, the insurgents probably left before the attacks.

Yeah US and coalition is having the best training in their lives with live targets.


You are making quite a few assumptions in there aren't you Marg?.....

First off, what is your knowledge of the area around Fallujah and the places where the civilians could have gone to?..... Let me guess.... none?...

Second, if there were only civilians there we would not start shooting, unless any civilian is armed and shoot at the troops.....but of course according to you, at least to me it looks like you are saying that, all of the coalition's troops are evil......

Thanks for giving your "opinion" anyways Marg...



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 07:21 AM
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Muaddib,

It was not assumptions, this report on the population of the iraqi city was in an interview yesterday with one of the so call "experts" on warfare in the news, he was asked questions about the population the insurgents and if the US knew if the people got safely out of the town.

By the way Muaddib US (IS) fighting the Iraqi people in Iraq, denial of this fact will not hide the truth.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by marg6043]

[edit on 9-11-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
You got it, the civilians are the casualties, the insurgents probably left before the attacks.

Yeah US and coalition is having the best training in their lives with live targets.

When you post things like this, it makes it very hard for me to have faith in what you post.

Do you honestly think I should believe this? Do you honestly think this is true?

Why are you posting things like this?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 07:34 AM
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There are no actual armies fighting coalition forces in Iraq even if every single fighter was an Al Qaeda agent. Which is not the case. ALL humans targeted by coalition forces in Iraq at this time are civilians whether they are part of a terrorist organization, civilian militia, or simply taking up arms on their own. So yes, coalition forces are deliberately targeting civilians because they are the only targets in Iraq.

If the army of Syria or Iran steps into this, then a case can be made that the U.S.-led coalition isn't just targeting civilians.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 07:38 AM
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The only thing brown babies do is grow up to be brown adults..and the only thing that brown adults do is make more brown babies...they also put gas in our cars...cut our lawns and cook our dinner...but they've NEVER DONE A THING FOR THE STOCKHOLDERS!!!
GET IT??!!!!!
Statements like this are low.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Majic

Do you honestly think I should believe this? Do you honestly think this is true?

Why are you posting things like this?


Because wanted or not believe it or not is the truth, sorry I busted your bubble but people in this coutry needs to understand that US is fighting the Iraqi people.

Calling them "terrorist" and "insurgents" to sugar coated to the "american compashioned people" is not going to take the fact away and the realities of US one side war on iraq.

Open your eyes, and smell the truth.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Open your eyes, and smell the truth.


So what is the truth? I am not finding it in your posts. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Are you saying that U.S. troops are deliberately targeting noncombatants, as you seem to be suggesting above, or am I misreading your post?

If this is the case, what evidence is this accusation based on?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:03 AM
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Truth is that people are being killed in a war they probably not wanted.
All that talk about freeing the Iraqis and blah blah ....
Freeing nothing, killing a lot, taking a lot,dumping a lot.
What exactly is going to happen when they choose an Islam-minded person as President, one that is not a Western Puppet? What are ya going to do then? Because then you have the Democratically chosen president there, only he is not going to fit in your plans...

As far as these attacks are concerned. All those claiming here stuff like :Normal, collateral damage" or "War is ugly, you know these things happen" or "They had time enough" etc. Can you tell in all honnesty late in your bed alone that you would still think like that if it happened to your family? Do not think so. It is very popular to be a though guy around forums and say such stuff but I really wonder how much from you would like it if they experience the same thing. Becaus you know, you are not the ones being attacked, you are the attackers, you are not the country on whos ground the war is on but its far away from your bed, its not your children dying and bleeding but its theirs, its not your country blown into pieces but its theirs, its not your family being killed in airraids, but its theirs, it is not your country,land,family but it is theirs!!! How would you react?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:04 AM
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What you call a none combatant a person that fight the invador after destroying his home, losing his family memebers in a "coallition" strike, use your mind and put yourself in that position.

Any body that oppouses coallition forces in Iraq is tag as an Isurgent.

And you talk about combatants well if I take a gun to protect my family and my home I guess I will be one also.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:11 AM
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I was horrified by the picture, but asked myself how many of those that are equally revolted by children dying in Iraq feel as revolted by the following?

1) "On August 6th 1945, the Enola Gay, a USA bomber, dropped a bomb called "Little Boy" on Hiroshima. For extracts from the plane's flight log - click here
80,000 people were killed instantly
Out of the city’s 55 hospitals, only 3 were usable after the blast.
90% of all doctors and nurses in Hiroshima were killed or injured
Radiation claimed many more lives after the bomb was dropped.
48,000 out of 76,000 buildings were destroyed.
The initial heat blast was 900 times hotter than the sun.
Bodies were vapourised underneath the bomb blast.
By 1950, 200,000 people had died as a result of the bomb.
Between 1950 and 1980, a further 97,000 people died from cancers associated with the radiation caused by "Little Boy".
On August 9th 1945, the bomber "Bockspur" dropped "Fat Man" on Nagasaki. Once again, the final number of deaths was over 200,000."

www.historylearningsite.co.uk...

2) "More than 30 Palestinian children were killed in the first two weeks of Operation Days of Penitence in the Gaza Strip. It's no wonder that many people term such wholesale killing of children "terror." Whereas in the overall count of all the victims of the intifada the ratio is three Palestinians killed for every Israeli killed, when it comes to children the ratio is 5:1. According to B'Tselem, the human rights organization, even before the current operation in Gaza, 557 Palestinian minors (below the age of 18) were killed, compared to 110 Israeli minors.

Palestinian human rights groups speak of even higher numbers: 598 Palestinian children killed (up to age 17), according to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, and 828 killed (up to age 18) according to the Red Crescent. Take note of the ages, too. According to B'Tselem, whose data are updated until about a month ago, 42 of the children who have been killed were 10; 20 were seven; and eight were two years old when they died. The youngest victims are 13 newborn infants who died at checkpoints during birth.

With horrific statistics like this, the question of who is a terrorist should have long since become very burdensome for every Israeli. Yet it is not on the public agenda. Child killers are always the Palestinians, the soldiers always only defend us and themselves, and the hell with the statistics."

www.zmag.org...



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:19 AM
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before we go and declare unrestricted warfare here i want to ask a few things.
who here agree's children shouldnt be killed?
who here agree's war is neceasary?
who here agree's that sometimes our people make mistakes?

war is not good ,war is bad but sometimes people get hurt.
i dont support the war but i support our troops AKA i want them out and safe at home.
now just to clarify something, the people being killed where shiates AKA the people who we are fighting. funny isnt it the "liberators" are attacked for "liberating"?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:40 AM
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It pleases me no end that we can all sit in our nice warm/cool homes and point fingers at each other over the horror of the death of innocents. The terrorist have won again. More death to come, more horror, more pictures for us to "discuss". DO SOMETHING to make it stop. I dare you all.................Pray....Fight.....don't just sit on your ass and "bitch".



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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From Dr. Horacid:
"Enough

It pleases me no end that we can all sit in our nice warm/cool homes and point fingers at each other over the horror of the death of innocents. The terrorist have won again. More death to come, more horror, more pictures for us to "discuss". DO SOMETHING to make it stop. I dare you all.................Pray....Fight.....don't just sit on your and "bitch". "

As you sit in your nice warm/cool home and spout as well. The terrorists have not won, we are just ashamed that we have to kill God's children because a bunch of immature greedy adults can't find common ground and have resorted to killing anything and everything. Considering what you do for a living, build bioweapons, I can honestly say that when you meet your maker, hopefully from old age, you will have a lot of explaining to do.



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