It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Warning: Graphic Image...Do you all support this???

page: 5
0
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:45 PM
link   
Voice, as an American, I can safely say that I would rather form lunar bases and extract the copious amounts of helium 3 said to exist on the moon (about 1,100,000 metric tonnes and valued at around $3,000,000,000,000,000.) than ever even considering invading another country for its oil. But hey, that's just me. And you might also want to include Afganistan to your "countries fought over for oil" list (the Caspian Sea). Though the Taliban losing control of Afganistan is not a bad thing altogether.

Strange, after I posted a page six opened up. Now I feel out of place.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by Mephorium]




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043
Amazing mentality of some,

War is good even if kills thousand of innocent as long as the goal is achieve, and what is the goal again, Oh yes liberation of the Iraqi people, Oh yes don't you worry about how many of you children we kill in the pursue of democracy, Sadam killed many in his time so is okay to kill more while we are forcing liberation on you.

What a mentality, is pitiful, hateful, racist and non justify what is going on in that country right now.

No matter what color we paint it our nation is committing murder in Iraq.


I hope many will be able to sleep at night at the realities of an unjust war, forcing liberation and democracy to satisfy a few, is not justify in the eyes of the world and I bet if is a God out there is not also justify in its eyes.


[edit on 8-11-2004 by marg6043]


War is hell....but it is happening all over the world.... do tell me was Iraq a peaceful nation before the coalition went there?.....

Would you sleep better leaving Iraq and knowing that worse things will happen once we leave?....

BTW...i do want to see where these figures that 100,000 Iraqis have been killed by the coalition comes from... no one is posting evidence of this?....

Oh and BTW.... I know there are people saying that Saddam did not do this, meanwhile people in iraq including Baghdag have said their families and friends have been killed by Saddam....

This is starting to sound like those white supremacist people that have said and are saying that Hitler never mass murdered Jewish people.... that it was all a lie...while the people who went through hell still tell us what happened....

Would i prefer if no civilians, those that are not insurgents themselves, and children are hurt or killed?... of course i would prefer that.

Would you all prefer if we just left Iaq and the Iranian and insurgents, terrorists fight in IRaq trying to get that country under their control?...

Once more all I see is some people proclaiming they know about this and they are just showing their ignorance of these events.... Not only that but blaming Republicans for it....pitifull indeed Marg.....



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by Muaddib

Do tell me dgtempe....are the deaths of 500,000-560,000 dead children in Iraq because of the UN sanctions and because Clinton [edit on 8-11-2004 by Muaddib]


Again the mentality of some is okay to kill 500,000 more while we are liberating them, I wonder is US (compassionate) tag is just a front to feel better about itself.

Shame on anybody that support any war that kills the inocent.


I am starting to lose faith in our nation, I only hope that my children will not become so detach to the suffering of others.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by dgtempe
Muaddid, im not in the mood for your insults today.

Stay away from this thread if this is an issue you cant bring yourself to discuss.

Do give everyone your opinion, im sure you have one. Taking the whole thread personally>? I dont see why you should quote me and only me. Yes, ill say it again. LET IT BE ON THE CONSCIENCES OF THOSE WHO BACK THIS ILLEGAL WAR.


Did i insult you?....

Didn't you wish upon me and all other Republicans to ahve these deaths in our conscience?.....

So i ask you....are the deaths of those 500,000-560,000 children that died under the sanction that Clinton allowed, and are those 300,000-500,000 dead Iraqis who Saddam killed...are all those in your conscience?....



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:53 PM
link   


an estimated 500,000 Soviet citizens died from German bomb attacks


we are bieng as precise as we can, as another poster stated...

go take a look at this site....

users.erols.com...

It shows the deaths of innocents during WW2 due to bombing campaigns.
MOre than 20,000 died in England and they had bomb shelters. This is war folks, plain and simple. I feel empathy because no one should lose a child, but they were told to leave. What, they can't leave the burnt out hut that iis in a city that is filled with Saddm loyalists. They had weeks to pack their 4 pots and take the camel east.

What sickens me is the pictures of insurgents attacking our soldiers that are running on the AP wires. The pictures of the men and women over there who don't have the support of half our country, if I am to read everyone on here correct stating that this is all Bushs falult (laugh, laugh). You cannot support the troops and and not the administration, it is all or none.

There is death everyday in every part of the world. Quit looking for pictures of dead Iraqis to post and go volunteer somewhere, where maybe your knowledge can help a kid without a dad or something. Be glad you were born into the life you were, and not in a hut in Falluja.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:53 PM
link   
I can not find where in my post said that I am blaming republicans could you pleased show me where?

I said Bush war and occurs we all know that he is the one that took US into Iraq, so should I said God took US into Iraq? will that sound better?

Get it US in iraq is killing iraqi people like it or not and is unjustify, like it or not.

Sleep better tonight.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043

Again the mentality of some is okay to kill 500,000 more while we are liberating them, I wonder is US (compassionate) tag is just a front to feel better about itself.

Shame on anybody that support any war that kills the inocent.


I am starting to lose faith in our nation, I only hope that my children will not become so detach to the suffering of others.


And shame on the mentality of those who prefer not to do anything while hundreds of thousands die, including children, and while insurgents keep preparing to make attacks on the US and other countries....



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043
I can not find where in my post said that I am blaming republicans could you pleased show me where?

I said Bush war and occurs we all know that he is the one that took US into Iraq, so should I said God took US into Iraq? will that sound better?

Get it US in iraq is killing iraqi people like it or not and is unjustify, like it or not.

Sleep better tonight.


Marg...you are obviously ignoring that more people have died before the coalition went to Iraq...and i don't see any links with information from reliable human right organizations that claim the coalition have killed 100,000 iraqis....

The original poster of this thread, and others, are blaming Republicans for this Marg...



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 05:57 PM
link   
war is horrible we all agree dont we?
war is necesarry sometimes we all agree?
the killing or hurting of children is the ultimate sin, for they are the future,they will run our countries,cities and our world. we all agree?
we can show this image and manny like it from diffrent sources WW1,WW2,KOREA,NI , vietnam, etc etc and it will get us all very angry and sad, sure this is a time for rememberance but there is no need for us to be dragged down into despair and deppresion. we all agree?


voice of doom are you a stock broker?
because you dont seem to understand that, that little baby could have been something. every life exstinguished is a tragedy.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Muaddib


Marg...you are obviously ignoring that more people have died before the coalition went to Iraq...


do you know who was being killed?
i am not meaning this as an attack but i just want to know because the answer is rather ironic.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:01 PM
link   
Wow such a heated topic.

I can see someones gonna get hurt, like I said before poeple use compassion. (Nobody likes war).

There is only one war and Im in it, all of you are in it and the rest of the world is in it.

The war (which has been going on since God created this universe)

Is called

Intelligence vs igonarnce.

Stay strong people.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:04 PM
link   
Muaddib,

Can you remember why we are in Iraq? Do you?

See I do remember but perhaps you forgot between 9/11 and Iraq, somewhere along that time line the purpose of this unjust war has been misplaced.


Tell me Muaddib what do you feel when you see the devastation in that country.

Does it makes you proud of our military? Does it makes you proud of our nation? Does it makes you proud of our government?

Do you enjoy the pictures or do you feel like me, ashamed of the wasted lives of the ones that will never get to grow to see democracy in their country.

You has to have a hart somewhere hidden in you chest, I know you do, and I know that deep inside you, you feel sadness for what US has done to the people of Iraq, because at the end we all humans and we all have feelings.

And this all I will said to you and I will not address you anymore in these thread.

I have not hard feelings for you I am to sad to be angry.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:12 PM
link   
Where did the picture come from? How do we know the child is Iraqi? How do we know the cause of his/her injuries? Perhaps some evidence is in order-- no sense in making assumptions about these kinds of issues.

MK



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:13 PM
link   
"Where did the picture come from? How do we know the child is Iraqi? How do we know the cause of his/her injuries? Perhaps some evidence is in order-- no sense in making assumptions about these kinds of issues.

MK"

Dear MK, read the posts, it's a reuters story. Read before you post.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:16 PM
link   
MKULTRA

Pictures of devastation and death in Iraq has always been in the internet is just that our media is not allowed to have then in prime tv.


And the media has been ban from the front lines in Iraq, the government said is for the safety of the reporters but I know that is to avoid the view of the death.

You always find some that will take the photos and will post them in the net regarless of what the interim government and US government said about it.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:23 PM
link   
If you had a choice between a cult of Satanic devil-worshippers and a group of God fairing Christians, which of the two do you think would condone acts of mass murder, torture, rape, destruction of homes, wanton vandalism and acts of terrorism? The former, or the latter?

Only those who walk in legion with Satan would or could support the shocking acts of butchery that are being committed in Iraq. Not so in the USA apparently, where the so-called Christian Fundamentalists handed George Bush the presidency on a silver platter, complete with a reassuring pat on the back effectively saying more of the same Mr President, more of the same.

The Christian Fundamentalists of America are the mirror image of the Taliban, both of which insult and deny their Gods.

Those who choose to disbelieve and cocoon themselves in a nice, cozy, protective environment, believing that Mr. President knows what he is doing, will soon see the errors in their judgement.

The ideals guiding Mr President are not Christian or Islamic or anything else remotely religious. They are greed, the lust and thirst and quest for power, in short, he has adopted the morals and corruption upon which Satan acts and has been cunning enough to have duped the good Christians of the United States of America hook, line and sinker.



America, this is the God that your President worships.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:27 PM
link   
How come we dont see many pictures from Darfour?
I wonder why?

These people are being murdered by your "peaceful" Muslims



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:36 PM
link   
Quoted from ATS Member.

"How come we dont see many pictures from Darfour?
I wonder why?
These people are being murdered by your "peaceful" Muslims"


There is no mention of peace around here, just how sad it is to watch children die because their parents are to ignorant to work out their issues without resorting to killing.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:40 PM
link   
You dont get it do you.

There isnt a bullet or weapon that smart that you can pick and chose down to that degree.

The "military" targets are mixed with civilians. Even conventional forces usually have thier bases and barracks close to or within populated areas. Hell most of the housing around milittary bases grew up thier to cater for the families of troops on the bases.

In those parts of the worlds families live and work within many bases and barracks, like camp followers of old.

Do you have an army, navy or airbase near you? Are some of your neighbours service families? Do you have a defence industries plant, industrial plant, rail or airport hub, civil or military communications centre, or port nearby? Is the powerplant that provides your lights also generating power for the local base or a defence industry? Is there a government office that doubles as a command centre or a VIP bunker in an emergency or wartime. Do you still have community air raid shelters that are capable of doubling as command bunkers in war time?

These are all valid targets in wartime, because by destroying them you reduce the opponents ability to inflict casualties on you.

In an insurgency like this it is worse. Your neighbours house could be an insurgent leaders home or command bunker. your shop or school could become thier ammo dump, your hospital or local hotel or any of a thousand buildings and houses thier barracks or strongpoints, the local radio or TV station could start be used to broadcast clear or coded instructions to the fighters around the city, when all other communications are disrupted (even the message runners).

They will have set up cottage industries in some cellars and buildings where they make and maintain small arms, ammo, and improvised weapons. And when a decision is taken to clean out insurgents like that they take to putting you between them and the regular forces as a defence, and they are going to fight street to street and house to house, sometimes slipping back in, and as you say to increase the hatred and search for supporters.....not everybody in that town is going to be an insurgent or planning Jihad....a few are going to be pissed off people angry.

Bushes re-election campaign has hamstrung the Commanders for two years. Twice they have hammered insurgents in Falluja. Twice they have been called off because Bush was nervous politically about hurting his chances. The insurgents leaders have created the myth about how they have forced the coalition out, and been allowed to plan , recruit and prepare for this day. They have used it as a relatively safe base to hit out from.

Bush committed you to a war for the wrong reasons but even if his reasons had been right you would still probably be stuck with this insurgency. It doesnt matter if 1% or 10% of the Iraqi population hs joined in this insurgency.The majority of them want no part of it other than to be allowed to get on with life.

If as some people would like to suggest that the mass of Iraq is up in arms against the coalition, why has two thirds of the population of Falluja fled the fighting? Why havent 20 plus million Iraqis risen up with the result that their deserts and streets are scattered with the bones and debris of the whole coalition? Other populations have done it in history. Really, if the majority of Iraqis are so on the insurgents side why not?

Because most of them dont give a # beyond wanting it over

The military commander has limited choices....he can sit back and let that go on and do nothing. It might stop the flow of civilian casualties but more of your boys will come home in body bags, and the insurgency will get stronger at the sight of the inaction and lack of resolve.....and that will end with the terrorists following your troops all the way home to your doorstep again.

They can continue to stage raids and counter strikes that will go on for years and get nowhere and keep fueling the hatred death toll.

Or they can go in in force and hard and that means a lot of casualties in a comparatively short time, and repeat the process in half a dozen towns throughout Iraq. Then you might get some more Peace.

You can't pick out targets at random even if you try in this sort of war. The Israelis switched (mostly) to using intell when they had it and singleton air launched rockets to take out the leadership of terrorist groups like Hammas, because snatch or kill raids by thier SF needed to be supported by large cordon forces to protect them, and it became unacceptable for the numbers of casualties on both sides for that to remain the norm, especially when the targets were slipping away in the confusion.

The leaders of Hammas directing the terror attacks there live and work and move amongst the highly populated urban areas there. They are not going to move in the open where they dont have thier screen of innocent victims to parade afterwards.

So civilians are still going to get killed but if you have to compare them to the figures from several days of pitched battles and the rocket attacks do you think thier going down. I didnt ask what do you prefer because that is a stupid question. Ever notice that the ratio between Palestinian dead and Israelis is dropping. It isn't because the Palestinian terrorists are any more successful, its because Israelis are getting "smarter" in thier targeting.

Iraqs on a scale far worse to the Palestine-Israel area beleive it or not, and there is no more time for finese.

Wev'e asked the insurgent LEADERS and IDOLS what they wanted a long time ago and followed through right up until now and thier answers have been ugly frightening unreasonable and uncompromising, like thier tactics. I think the best anyone has gotten off is paying a ransom for a hostage and what have they bought with that....more bomb belts and bullets to kill with.

So yeah, I bite my bottom lip, thump the wall and sometimes have a cry when I see a picture of a baby blown up or a young girl with her legs shredded and I dont care who did or didnt do it because we are all responsible for it on all sides. But I cannot honestly state anything the oppenents of the/all war will work in the the real world situation, or that we will not just be making the whole situation worse by running, and handing money and aid to the Extremist Leaders of the insurgents to compensate them (because that is who the money will go to....because only that sort of pro terror government will survive us pulling out). Like sure lets promote the benefits and spread of terrorism everybody.

Or is it we dont care if Iraqis decends into civil war and kill each other, as long as we dont have to know about it or be involved in the death toll. I beleive that was tried with Afghanistan too after the Soviet pull out and look how that came back and bit us on the arse. Wasnt that one of the reasons Bin Laden turned on the West and formed AQ? Because we got what our governments wanted and then threw them away to kill each other off?

We have to deal with the here and now. Not bitch about what could have been done 1...10...100....1000 years ago to avoid it.

Sorry for the long tirrade. Genuine heart felt but simplistic question that I thought needed at least one genuine heartfelt COMPLICATED answer.

I'll go to bed wishing for a magic bullet to solve it.




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:45 PM
link   
dgtempe and Muabiby doby whatever (ANYBODY on both sides involved in the back biting)......maybe you should both stay away if you cant get past the insults and the name calling......rocks in glass houses.....
At least when I lose it I'm a mutual opportunity sledger.


The Only ones I reserves my truest venom for are the head chopper, market type suicide bombing terrorist and the mo-fo bent supporterss.


[edit on 8-11-2004 by craigandrew]




top topics



 
0
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join