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Democrats are trying to suppress the confusion and hide the cost of ObamaCare

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posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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You know, when I read about the Obama care thing I'm perplexed. As a Canadian I get full "FREE" medical aid, "free" surgery, "free" annual doctor visits...Blah blah blah......This "free" health care comes from the populace and the taxes we pay in to the system, the Government in turn dedicates %47 of it's total tax income to Heath care and it is still not enough. We are short on doctors, short on nurses and specific medical expertise fields because.....You guessed it....Some doctors choose to open their very own PRIVATE clinics, where....You have to pay to consult and if you are one of the lucky chosen few...You have a great job with health benifits that cover your vicits to paying clinics....Hummm...you see what is wront here....???

If a government wants to establish a "FREE" heath care system for the less fortunate, I say fine but...Let's not make it a two tier system where if you have money, tyou have to go through the public system to be refered to the private system, that's where I'm being double tapped and I'm not loking it one bit.




posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I don't know, my experience is that the ER will provide emergency treatment, and follow up is kind of not included. If you qualify under their magical, mystical formula as being poor or needy, they ya, you can get the heathcare you need. But, well, when I broke my ankle, you could have twisted the numbers anyway you wanted and would have found that after paying for the basic bills, there was less money for food available than they were giving those "poor" people with a similar family structure. And, I tried to get help, from DSS and from the hospital's charity care.
It took a danged state legislator contacting their surgeon and pressuring him for him to do the needed surgery.
And, yet, all through this time, week after week, the gov't was taking money from our income to give to the poor, so they could have all kinds of medical care, including running the kid to a doctor for a runny nose just so mom could be assured that all was okay!!!

I still say this is unconstitutional, if you have two people who both really need the help, you shouldn't be able to take some of what the one does have, just so the other can have more. I don't believe obamacare will do a thing to correct this, it will only make it so that families in situations similar to what we were in will not only be going nuts to get their much needed healthcare taken care of, but also will be going nuts trying to figure out where the next meal will come from, or how to pay the rent, or both!!!

And, I am still wondering just how many flipping times we need to pay for the mortgage on the home we are living in?? Paying the monthly mortgage, paid through taxes so the gov't could buy all the mortgages, paying again through inflation as the Fed pumps out 80 billion or so a month to buy the securities........not to mention the loss of jobs, loss of pension funds, and oh, ya, let's throw grandma off the cliff!!
It's really getting sickening!!!

Ain't nothing gonna get better until the gov't stops coddling the business sector and starts worrying about the people again.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


I live in Ga, in my neck of the woods is very poor and low income area, the major hospital that has take over as a monopoly is Pheobe Putney, a non profit organization, they had killed the last competitor hospital in the area, but they have an agreement with the city and surrounded areas, here if you are poor, you have not problem with care, no only the rates are very low but the hospital itself (as a monopoly) will arrange for you certain types of subsidized care that you can chose in order to afford a bill for a major medical problem.

Actually I can not deny that when it comes to the poor and needy in the area that can not afford care they get the best deals available as long as they can prove low income.

The state also have additional insurance for children call peach care if the children are of school age for dental and eyes.

Even when the hospital is a monopoly is the biggest regional hospital in the area and you can get any type of surgery you can imagine and emergency care.

They even have top of the line cancer center.

I guess it depends where you are located and what is available to you.

I can tell you this much, my daughter is working for another county regional hospital that is not as big as Pheobe as a emergency room nurse and when they have trauma patients without insurance they still get emergency surgeries as needed, she say that most of the bulk of the patients they get are uninsured.

But the sad thing is that if you have insurance from a private insurance company you are going to pay top dollars.

Then Obama thinks that the elderly has forgotten that within the Obamacrap healthcare is a 500 million cuts to Medicare

Sorry to hear you had so much problems, perhaps you will do better here in my neck of the woods.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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Where we live now, if you fall into that crack where you are too poor to live but too rich to get any help, ya, they will treat you, but you will have only something like 30 days to pay the bill. They do offer a little interest bearing credit card that you can easily get and apply the balance to. but, well, you will be paying the interest also. And well, they only other option is that they will sue you sometime after the 30 days if it is not paid.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


I think that you hit the nail, " too poor to afford care or pay for insurance but make too much to be considered poor enough to fall for subsidized care or state subsidized help" welcome to the middle class in todays America.

Where I live is nothing but a welfare population with high unemployment rates, my husband happen to have a good job for the government and we are in that group that can not benefit for any programs because he have a good job but still have to live from pay check to paycheck because we get tax the highest.

Sadly the American dream in America is only for those can that can fall into the welfare group.

But I can tell you that the target of Obama care is the middle class tax payer worker we are the ones that will be gouged by the Obamacare.

Health care should be a state issue no a Federal state issue.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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This could all be fixed by price fixing the cost of healthcare procedures at an 'honest' price.

There was a report a few weeks ago comparing the price of different procedures and the difference was obscene.

One hospital would charge 8K for a heart attack another hospital 250K.
There is NO excuse for that sort of price difference.

Honest prices and people pay out of pocket for all but the most catastrophic of bills. Insurance premiums should be a 1% fixed- no ratcheting it up and the people should have the ability to say - no thank you I don't need insurance if they try to raise it over 1%. If you work under the table and don't pay tax you have no insurance and you pay out of pocket for everything or just take care of yourself.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Terrible, giving health care to poor people. What next food to the hungry?

Cut your military budget and you can have the best health care in the world with little additional cost to the tax payer. Every one of Americas public services suffer to maintain an army who purpose was to fight soviets. The government gets what it pays for and the military, schools and public services reflect that.
edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)


While you are correct about military budgets, do not confuse this sinister attempt to loot our population in efforts to create a windfall for private insurance with helping to insure poor people. If that was the case, Medicaid would have been expanded for everyone.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Redarguo
 




Cut your military budget and you can have the best health care in the world with little additional cost to the tax payer.


This is so silly, simple math is needed. How much is the military budget of the US this year? Now compare that to the cost of health insurance for the everyone in the US. A simple google search turned up that the US spends, currently, $8000 dollars per year, per person, on average ( do some searching and you will see this is a low figure)
There are 300 million people in the US. 300 Million times 8000 is what? 24 hundred billion.

What is the current US military budget? Wikipedia says in 2011 it is 680 billion.So assuming you cut the entire military budget, send them all home to be unemployed. You would save 680 billion. Do you think the cost of insuring all the remaining uninsured would be less than 680 billion?


Medicare costs



In 2010, Medicare provided health insurance to 48 million Americans—40 million people age 65 and older and eight million younger people with disabilities. Medicare serves a large population of old and disabled individuals. On average, Medicare covers about half (48 percent) of health care costs for enrollees


Medicare

Medicare costs 23% of the annual budget of the United States the entire Military costs 19%.
Budget

So if medicare covers half the cost for 49 million people, how much will it cost to insure the current uninsured or under insured 100%?

Will it be less that the total cost of 680 billion for the entire military budget? You do the math. Find out how many people it will cover and do the math yourself. We don't need hippy, socialist logic to solve Health Care. We need people who can count and do logical reasoning.

Health care in America is the best in the world, that's why people who are rich come to the US, rather than say Britain, for critical care. That is why people, like my family member who lives in Britain, couldn't wait until they could afford private insurance to buy it.

Is it too expensive, hell yes it is,. Is it the best, hell yes it is. Is it perfect? Hell no. Can a government bureaucracy improve it? ....

Why does the government allow loans to kids taking BS studies in college? Why doesn't the government say, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Engineers, get the subsidies and loans and leave BS (bullshiyt) degrees alone. I don't know. Blame Obama i guess.



V



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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And Republicans are trying to confuse people and exaggerate the cost of Obamacare.

Fact for me is I'm saving more than a thousand dollars a year BECAUSE of it.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 


You may have a great boss or either are inflating the actual cost here, because my husband and I are under Government insurance since he retired from the Marines in 98 and our insurance premiums and co pays double since October 2012 with another increase under Obama crap this year that so far it has been held back in congress as today, but I am sure that will be passed soon enough.

Darn whores in congress.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
And Republicans are trying to confuse people and exaggerate the cost of Obamacare.

Fact for me is I'm saving more than a thousand dollars a year BECAUSE of it.


For some people it will be a blessing but for the quality of care and the economy in general it's going to be a disaster.

I work in the healthcare industry and the biggest thing we are seeing are small or specialty clinics either going out of business or, (if they can be profitable) joining the major health networks.

We are constantly being told that we have to do more with less and the less are the people at the bottom of the payroll being put on part time or full time employees being sent home early without pay. We aren't at layoffs yet but we are 'slimming down' through attrition. There are going to be a lot of people out of work and they won't be the doctors because they will still be getting their 200k+ bonuses.

Physicians with quotas that have to see x number of patients per day to keep up with the cost of doing business. The treatments and drugs aren't getting cheaper, only the quality of care.

Sorry for going off topic a bit.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Anjin
 


That is exactly what we are getting now under the government insurance, higher rates and less coverage I know exactly what is going on, we never have problems with our insurance until Obamacrap came about.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by Taissa
 


My state has not expanded Medicaid. As I understand it, because I am below the poverty level, I will not be eligible to purchase a plan on the exchange, I will have to apply for Medicaid. But since my state has not expanded Medicaid (or rather, since states were allowed the option to not expand Medicaid), I will not be able to get Medicaid.

In my state, if you are an adult, and if you are not a pregnant woman, you are not eligible for Medicaid if you make more than $299/month. Two hundred and ninety-nine dollars. Per month. Now, I make about 1400 a month, which puts me far, far outside of Medicaid eligibility but, with 2 kids still at home, well below the poverty level. This makes me both ineligible to buy an "affordable" plan under the new system and also makes me ineligible for the tax credit which is supposed to help lower-income folks pay for insurance. My only option is to enroll in Medicaid..which I am ineligible for because I make more than $299 a month.

What?

On the bright side, because I can neither get Medicaid NOR will I be allowed to purchase a plan on my own, I will not be subject to the fine at tax time.

Now quite frankly I had no intention of purchasing a plan---I need to eat, pay the light bill and rent a LOT more than I need health insurance, and $1400 a month doesn't stretch much past rent, lights/gas, and gas to go to work even here---and I would cheerfully have paid the fine instead, BUT if Obamacare is really supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, how on earth does this make any sense at all?



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Terrible, giving health care to poor people. What next food to the hungry?

Cut your military budget and you can have the best health care in the world with little additional cost to the tax payer. Every one of Americas public services suffer to maintain an army who purpose was to fight soviets. The government gets what it pays for and the military, schools and public services reflect that.
edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)


Military budget is 19% of the budget. Social spending is 50%. Learn the facts before you make silly comments.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Redarguo
 


Poor people already had healthcare. It'll illegal to refuse healthcare to people because they are poor. This was about redistribution of wealth and Marxism.


Oh sure the poor has healthcare. This is proven by all the people that die because they can't afford healthcare.


How has the ACA made healthcare more affordable?



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by buster2010

They are already paying for it that is why they wanted it. Healthcare is a better use of our taxes than paying to invade and rebuild countries that never attacked us.


Actually both are bad for MY pocketbook.



Second, what does rebuilding Countries that never attack us have to do with Obamacare?

That has to do with Obama and continued failed polices, something for another thread.............


You were the one crying about taxes remember?



Meh.......... Just another TAX forced on the taxpayers. Just remember who voted for this idiot. I say let them pay for it all..................

I just said our taxes would be better spend on healthcare than war. That shouldn't have been hard to understand.


Obamacare will cost more than both wars combined and will be a neverending expense for as long as it is allowed to run.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by riiver
 


Your situation is exactly the reason obozocare will never work - What do they want? Do they want you to lose your job and live in absolute welfare poverty with your kids? That's a good idea?

I'm 50 years old - I'm healthy, I don't have high BP, or diabetes - What I need is catastrophic care - for cancer, or an accident that lands me in the ICU for a week. I will happily pay out of pocket if I have strep throat and need antibiotics --- But NO - I have to have full insurance to pay for other people's transgender surgeries and plastic surgery.

Obozocare will be revoked - it is imposiible to fund in their stupid, infantile minds - then add another 20 million illegal immigrants on top of it.

Who would want to spend 12 years of their lives going to medical school to make nothing - and run the risk of getting sued - because obozocare never bothered to do tort reform - and malpractice insurance is still astronomical.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Terrible, giving health care to poor people. What next food to the hungry?

Cut your military budget and you can have the best health care in the world with little additional cost to the tax payer. Every one of Americas public services suffer to maintain an army who purpose was to fight soviets. The government gets what it pays for and the military, schools and public services reflect that.
edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)


Military budget is 19% of the budget. Social spending is 50%. Learn the facts before you make silly comments.




Total outlays by agency (in billions of dollars):

Department of Defense including Overseas Contingency Operations 666.2
Department of Health and Human Services including Medicare and Medicaid 80.6
Department of Education 67.7
Department of Veterans Affairs 60.4 7
Department of Housing and Urban Development 41.1
Department of State and Other International Programs 56.
Department of Homeland Security 54.9
Department of Energy 35.6
Department of Justice 23.9
Department of Agriculture 26.8
National Aeronautics and Space Administration 17.8 –
National Intelligence Program 52.6
Department of Transportation 24.0
Department of the Treasury 14.1
Department of the Interior 12.3
Department of Labor 13.2
Social Security Administration 11.7 7
Department of Commerce 9.5
Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works 8.2
National Science Foundation 7.4
Small Business Administration 1.4
Corporation for National and Community Service 1.1

Total


en.wikipedia.org...

I fail to see what is inaccurate about my assessment, much more goes into US military spending than any other service

Not including the department of Home land security, much more seems to be spent on defense than all other services combined. Curious as to how you arrived at your figure.


edit on 4-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Redarguo

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Terrible, giving health care to poor people. What next food to the hungry?

Cut your military budget and you can have the best health care in the world with little additional cost to the tax payer. Every one of Americas public services suffer to maintain an army who purpose was to fight soviets. The government gets what it pays for and the military, schools and public services reflect that.
edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)


Military budget is 19% of the budget. Social spending is 50%. Learn the facts before you make silly comments.




Total outlays by agency (in billions of dollars):

Department of Defense including Overseas Contingency Operations 666.2
Department of Health and Human Services including Medicare and Medicaid 80.6
Department of Education 67.7
Department of Veterans Affairs 60.4 7
Department of Housing and Urban Development 41.1
Department of State and Other International Programs 56.
Department of Homeland Security 54.9
Department of Energy 35.6
Department of Justice 23.9
Department of Agriculture 26.8
National Aeronautics and Space Administration 17.8 –
National Intelligence Program 52.6
Department of Transportation 24.0
Department of the Treasury 14.1
Department of the Interior 12.3
Department of Labor 13.2
Social Security Administration 11.7 7
Department of Commerce 9.5
Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works 8.2
National Science Foundation 7.4
Small Business Administration 1.4
Corporation for National and Community Service 1.1

Total


en.wikipedia.org...

I fail to see what is inaccurate about my assessment, much more goes into US military spending than any other service
edit on 4-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)


Were you being intentionally misleading? You used partial funding numbers to support your position. I can do that too.

Social Security Administration 871.0
Department of Health and Human Services including Medicare and Medicaid 860.3
Department of Agriculture 127.7
Department of the Treasury 96.2
Department of Labor 88.4
Department of Veterans Affairs 79.4
Department of Transportation 74.5
Other spending 61.7
Department of Justice 12.7
Department of Defense including Overseas Contingency Operations 6.7
Department of Housing and Urban Development 5.2
Department of Education 4.2

Wow defense is almost zero spending!

How about we cut the BS and stop playing stupid games? Thanks.
Department of Health and Human Services including Medicare and Medicaid - 940.9
Social Security Administration - 882.7
Department of Defense including Overseas Contingency Operations - 672.9
Total - 3,803

Defense spendng is now 17% of the total budget.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


How am I being misleading? Granted Wikipedia may not be accurate im quoting a source, im asking if you have an alternative source to back up your claims, not make up numbers.

edit Ok your figure do counter mine.
edit on 4-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)



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