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Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

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posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 06:35 PM

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Bah.. "Experts." After I found out what Daniken, Zitchen, Tsoukolos, Burnes, Greer, and Leir told me were all lies I stopped having faith in "experts" on ufology.

Welllllllllll, somehow, I never did put much stock in Stichen. He just always seemed like a charlatan or a stooge to me.

Von Daniken . . . I thought it was also an interesting story but . . . trumped up overmuch. And what was his motive? Money or a NWO stooge or what. BTW, he's since become a Christian, interestingly.

I don't recall Tsoukolos enough to comment . . . nor Burnes. Greer. . . . a friend of mine used to work with him in ER. Said he was a top flight person of high skills and high integrity with a big heart. However, she saw a kind of transformation the more he got into the UFO stuff. Almost like he became a different person.

Personally, I've wondered if they didn't haul him off to some MKULTRA room and mess his mind over real good and somehow end up much more in control of his whole schmere.

Leir? Which one?

Leir is the surgeon who claims to have removed several alien implants from several people. He claims he sent the "devices" into 2 Universities (I don't remember which ones specifically, and I don't care to go digging for them) one in Cali and one in New Mexico. He said they both independently verified that what he sent them was non-terrastrial technology. Not surprisingly, those alleged high-tech human-tracking-devices never turned up again. He's one of Greer's affiliates, and just like Greer he's one of the worst things to happen to ET research because so many people who are just starting to looking into Ufology stumble onto his argle-bargle before finding anything half-credible.

edit on 7-7-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 06:55 PM
reply to post by DelMarvel

A link on the babies taken at the end of the first trimester may be difficult. It should be available on some websites but I haven't read websites much for a long time.

IIRC with any confidence, I read about a couple of cases 2-3 decades ago. One was in a book . . . I forget where the other one was. There are many more cases than 2 but the 2 had the gynecologists' exams to support them.

Maybe after a bit I'll search around and see what I can come up with.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 06:58 PM
reply to post by HairlessApe

Ahhh that Leir.

I think his cases have escalated and his proof has improved as well. Sounds like you haven't read of him for a long time.

Re Greer, other than believing his own press clippings about himself . . .

he SEEMS to have been consumed, co-opted, indoctrinated, brainwashed

into the "space brothers as our saviors" meme.

I think many of those testifying are high integrity people with convincing narratives.

Some may well be disinfo agents and certainly all of them end up supporting what the NWO wants the public to believe . . . to some degree . . .


posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 07:01 PM

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Certainly the Book of Enoch sheds a lot of light on the whole thing. Many Christians are haughty against the Book of Enoch. However The Bible quotes it maybe 30? times or so and it is mentioned by name a few times in the Bible.

Well, Enoch is not in the canon of either Judaism or the overwhelming majority of Christian churches which I guess could be interpreted as "haughty against" depending on how you look at it.

Not to get into a religious argument or to present myself as any expert but I'm certain the Book of Enoch is not quoted 30 times in the canonical scripture.

Thanks for the other link. I'll check it out.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 07:03 PM

Originally posted by The GUT
Vallee highlights a particular case reminiscent of that...I'll see if I can find it. It was a little stranger and seemingly more documented than most if my memory serves me correctly...


The vast bulk of my 51 year study of UFOs etc has kind of jelled into a gestalt of assorted factoids that I recall with varying degrees of clarity.

I never kept a journal. I used to haul around paper copies of articles and a fair number of books. Moving from border to border and back and forth across the Pacific winnows even a pack rat's pile of junk quite considerably.

So while I appreciate the shrill DEMANDS for "proof" and REFS hereon, it's just not that easy at my age and circumstances to comply--and certainly not with great speed.

However, I'm fair at net searches and maybe that can help fill in some gaps.


posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 07:06 PM
reply to post by DelMarvel

I don't recall the specific number of times Enoch is quoted in the Bible. And it's never quoted with reference to Enoch.

The scholars have arrived at that number because of the wording of the text in roughly that number of places virtually identically matches the earlier Enoch.

The fact that The Bible quotes Enoch at all and certainly it does mention Enoch favorably as a book--lends some value to it above that of other non-canonical books.


I realize mileage may vary.

Given the complexity of the UFO phenomena . . . and the import in these END TIMES, I think Enoch is a valuable resource that ought not be snootily sniffed at too condescendingly.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 07:10 PM

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by BO XIAN
For that matter, how does psychosomatic account for triangles and other consistent designs appearing on people's BACKS where they are difficult to see even with a mirror--consistent designs across 100's of people and all cultures? How does THAT KIND of "psychosomatic" work?

Vallee highlights a particular case reminiscent of that...I'll see if I can find it. It was a little stranger and seemingly more documented than most if my memory serves me correctly...

I want to say that was the case of "Dr. X" but Google. is telling me that was from Aime Michel. I still think it might have been featured prominently in a a Vallee book I read.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 07:37 PM

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Cris Putnam and Tom Horn in Exo-Vaticana cover that well enough.

That link did not work for me but I found this site about Cris Putnam and Tom Horn:

I'm trying to keep a more open mind than usual but thirty seconds on that website blew the top off my BS meter.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by DelMarvel

A link on the babies taken at the end of the first trimester may be difficult. It should be available on some websites but I haven't read websites much for a long time.

IIRC with any confidence, I read about a couple of cases 2-3 decades ago.

All right, once again I am in no way meaning to be confrontational but the way this is going sort of sums up my many years of relatively modest immersion into UFOlogy. Extraordinary claims deflating into "a couple of cases 2-3 decades ago."

I went so far as to google "babies taken from womb by aliens" and on about the third page of results I suddenly had to say to myself "what the hell am I wasting my time on this for."
edit on 7-7-2013 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 08:22 PM
reply to post by DelMarvel

Not sure why this link wouldn't work:

Oh, I used .com. My error. Sorry.

I can sort of understand your disdain.

I think millions of folks treat this topic as though it were a mildly and occasionally interesting tangent to scifi.

. . . and of no real consequence to their lives in the 'real' world.

That would be one thing.


IF . . . as many of us believe, are firmly convinced of . . . the phenomena will ultimately prove to be of life and death import and wholesale modification of the planet toward horribly tyrannical states and conditions . . .

THEN, JUST PERHAPS it's worth more than some idle curiosity.


THEN, JUST PERHAPS . . . it would be worth erring on the side of giving the evidence every benefit of the doubt instead of impossible criteria to leap in a single bound.

However, I trust my research skills as well as my puzzle piece sorting skills and their related criteria. They have served me pretty well for most of my 66+ years. I certainly realize mileage may vary.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 08:45 PM
reply to post by DelMarvel

I'm going to go ahead and post links to stuff that is of interest TO ME related to the topic of this thread . . . that I run onto as I search for the baby taken info . . .

here's an interesting narrative . . . frightful . . . taken at face value . . .

Donald Worley, Alien Abduction Researcher

Alien Abduction Rape by Reptilians


= = =








= = = =


Rather vivid color photos and a troubling narrative.

= = = = = =


"The Monitors"

The Case for Alien Abductions

The Most Common Areas Examined by the Aliens

Biological Specimens, Samples usually taken for Abductees and/or Witnesses


Our Genetic Code is under Siege

The Metagene Factor

Time after time, abductees recall the same sequence of events and observations, their mechanisms of conscious control softened under hypnosis. Many come in "Clean", that is, with little or no previous interest in UFOs and having never heard of or much less read the several books that are introducing the topic to the masses: INTRUDERS and COMMUNION.

The proscribed order of abduction events reveals an industrial sized operation with across the board demographics.

People of all races, most ages and both sexes have had the experience. It's fairly obvious, the researchers maintain, the manufacture of hybrid babies dominates the Alien Agenda It's very extremely structured; they may do a "Million" different things, but they're really interested in one thing alone.

The generic sequence of events as recorded and documented, is as follows:


Egg Harvesting or Sperm Sampling

Baby Presentations (Only for Females, rare for Males)

Machine Examinations

Media Presentations of Idyllic Environments - The abduction sequence is not exact in every instance, but enough leading indicators must be present to qualify the case as one deserving further investigation





Other Worldly Journeys

Theophany - The delivery of some sort of quasi-religious message or experience



If large numbers of doctors in conventional gynecological practice were to be exposed to abduction data, a whole new sub-specialty would be inevitable. Many women abductees indicate that the Aliens tampered with their reproductive organs, if not actually committing a form of technological RAPE. [color=CC9966]Some women abductees are plagued with stark memories of strange wispy haired offspring whose presence sometimes evokes revulsion and the paradoxical feeling, "That's MY CHILD".

Additionally, [color=CC9966]we have to talk about the disappearing pregnancies. Abductees as far removed from one another as Brazil to New Hampshire tell nearly identical stories of pregnancies that suddenly appear and disappear and, later, reveal memories of repeated meetings with small, not-quite human infants they are asked to hold or touch.

= = = = =

To be continued

edit on 7/7/2013 by BO XIAN because: shorten post

edit on 7/7/2013 by BO XIAN because: tags

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:15 PM
reply to post by BO XIAN


This link from above has a wealth of corroborated details consistent across many abductees around the world. It's probably one of the most extensive, thorough, detailed docs I've come across in years.Just scroll down at the link:

= = = =

Alien Implant Removals
Five Abductees Discuss Before and After Effects

by Eve Frances Lorgen, M.A.

= = = = =


by David M. Jacobs, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of History
Temple University - Philadelphia, PA
from Website

recovered through WayBackMachine Website

= = = = =

I've met and talked with he and his wife at length face to face. He's a very solid, authentic Christian researcher doing his best to wake up folks to the realities involved. Some Dineh folks told him about the craft and even a BIG FOOT seen in the area down by the rive recently . . . along with the more common "skinwalkers."
--personal communication 2013

Warning, he has horrible paragraphing. Expect a hard to read mass of text.

Ancient Aliens: Why not discuss the NEPHILIM?

Posted by lamarzulli on November 30, 2009

= = = =

Here's an interesting perspective with an interesting TIMELINE CHART:

11 October 2012

Alien-human hybridization was predicted by Hollywood

Silver Screen Saucers


The Stranger Within

Foreshadowing, Unexplainable Pregnancies, Hybrid Children and the Creative Process

By Mike Clelland

These women will tell of having the all symptoms of pregnancy, often it will happen without any history of being sexually active. Later, usually within the first trimester, the women will awake one morning with the very real knowing that they are no longer pregnant. They might have memories of an abduction during the night where the fetus is removed.

Both men and women abductees tell of rooms onboard ships that are lined with some sort of liquid filled glass aquariums, each with a fetus floating inside. These incubation chambers are reported with consistency. Sometime later these women will be abducted again, and presented with a tiny baby, and they’ll be told that they are the mother. The infant isn’t normal, it appears sickly and thin, it seems to be a hybrid of us and them.

= = = =


The Alien Interviews: Abduction and Breeding Program

Posted by lamarzulli on December 17, 2008

you mention in the e-book about the hybrid “breeding program”…
how extensive do you think this is? do you feel that the “hybrids” are merely memory implants?

L. A. Responds: And now for the truly bizarre! The breeding program, in my opinion is real. It's also vigorous in that there seems to be an objective or end game. Dr. Jacobs [he was interviewed forA.I.] has stated that he believes this end game is sinister and I would agree with him. First we need to realize that there is similarity between what happened in Genesis 6, and The Book Of Enoch, and what is being reported in regard to the abductions, today. In both of those ancient texts it states that fallen angels [angel = messenger] had sexual unions with the women of earth and the offspring were the Nephilim. There was a vigorous breeding program back then, so much so that the earth was destroyed by a global flood, in order to wipe out the Nephilim hybrids. This leads us to the words of Yeshua, [Jesus] who states, "As it was in the days of Noah so it will be when the son of man returns." This begs the question, what differentiates the days of Noah from any other time in history? In my opinion it is the appearing of the fallen angels that makes this distinction. The question is this, is the modern abduction phenomena the sign of, the days of Noah? Is the so called breeding program described by Dr. Jacobs, and others who have plumbed the depths of this field, the link that goes back to the Genesis and Enochian accounts. Are we living in the Days of Noah? I would state that I believe we are.

To be continued

= = = =

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:40 PM
LINKS COLLECTION continued of links to articles etc. re the evil nature and goings on of elements of the UFO phenomena

= = = = =

The UFO Alien Abduction Phenomenon

October 13, 2012

The UFO Abduction Phenomenon – What Does it Mean for The Transformation of Human Consciousness?

by John E. Mack, M.D.1992


The author describes how he got into the study of the UFO abduction experience, a bit of the history of the field, the phenomenology of UFO abductions, who the abductees are, his use of non-ordinary states of consciousness in working with them, some of the physical evidence involved, what effect being abducted has on the abductees, and his interpretation of the meaning of the experience.

UFO abductions are not a rare phenomenon and have been estimated to have occurred to three-million Americans. There is a remarkably precise correspondence to the reports.

Abductees exhibit relatively little psychopathology.

The author uses a combination o hypnosis and a breathing technique as treatment in helping the abductees confront and move through the terrifying memories of the experiences. Abduction events and descriptions of aliens are relatively uniform.

There is both subtle and highly robust physical evidence that accompanies some of the abductions. The aftermaths of these events are usually highly traumatic. But in processing these terrors, abductees are often able to find these events a source of transformation, in connecting them beyond themselves.

. . . .

An Estimated Three-Million Americans Abducted

A Roper poll (1991) based on a sample of six-thousand Americans and conducted from July through September of 1991 asked people whether they had experienced a number of the phenomena associated with UFO abductions – e.g., the experience of being taken through a wall, the inexplicable bright light strange beings around their bed, or actually seeing a UFO.

If people had four out of five of these experiences, it was reasoned there was a likelihood or a good possibility they were UFO abductees. Based on this estimate in that poll, it is conceivable that as many as three-million Americans have had this experience. So, you see, it is not a rare phenomenon.

Stanislav Groff was . . . a prof I was quite familiar with . . . he's mentioned in the article.

= = = =
A bit of a strange article . . . maybe by a non-native English speaker . . .


About the possible appearance of the hybrids can be expected from the further description. 8-a decade. the middle of California, 19 – year-old girl gave birth to a baby blue film between skin and hands and toes. Then she confessed that prior to 9 months. 6-raped by an alien from a UFO landed, the skin and fingers were just that. San Francisco residents Deborah lein removed during an abortion the fruit with a big head, very large eyes, hands and feet were the four fingers. Deborah also recalled that about six months ago, prabudusi night, saw standing on the bed with huge subhuman creatures eyes without pupils, whose hands and feet were the four fingers. Then still vaguely remembered that they did something with her body. Nepal alien baby started walking at the age of just 6 months., Spoke a language not understood, but radioscopy showed that he has no heart, lungs and other internal organs. Instead, they were some sort of large chest is not recognized entity.

Read more:

= = = = =


Interesting drawings/paintings

= = = =


This is part 2 where after the abortion they try to see what is inside what look like placenta. That video is a bit strong so be prepared..

.. . .

You remained pregnant right? “Yes, I had 18 “pregnancy”. (I assume it’s a sort of a forced abortion). “During the second month they come and they take the fetus away”. And then what happens? You don’t feel pregnant anymore? (I’m having trouble hearing this part. Apparently she says that they come and take her milk from her breast. I don’t know how a woman can have milk at that time but whatever).

So we have a story that is similar to many others but this one is told in a precise manner and backed with some evidence. You have just heard Giovanna’s story.

. . .

= = = =

I'm tired. Maybe I can get back to this later next week.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:56 PM
In case y'all missed it:

Time to Come Clean: I'm an Abductee!!

Has a shout-out to HairlessApe and BO XIAN. After hearing Hairless state that he felt his family would have shared any "abduction experiences" in his Ancient Alien days, the thought hit me, that while I have shared it with a couple of family members, I generally have kept it to myself...even with my closest cousin when she was a witness to the "Fyffe UFO."

I did eventually relate it to her--in the last year--but the whole conversation between Bo & HA brought me out of the high-strangness "abductee" closet...what was I thinking when I hit "Send?" Too late now.

posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 10:12 PM
reply to post by The GUT

THX THX will check it out.

Congrats on the courage.

I'm curious . . . how convinced are you after all that


1. any of the critters are evil?

2. What percentage?

3. What are your speculations about their goals?

If it's too early in such threads to respond candidly to those questions, that's OK.

That's a great thread, GUT. Congrats.

BTW, do you know how to play Chinese chess? I love the half game. The full game is too much work, for me.

edit on 7/7/2013 by BO XIAN because: addition

posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 12:29 AM

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Alien Abduction Rape by Reptilians


Hmm. That report was a lurid story from a teenage girl about enjoying sex with a creature that switches back and forth in form between a beautiful Nordic and and evil Reptilian and how she feels guilty afterward.

Pretty exciting.

But I really like this researcher's thinly veiled homoerotic story about "Reverend Paul and his Lifetime Union with a Nordic Alien Named Gold."


This beautiful male Nordic figure dresses in scintillating body suits or flowing robes and has striking blue eyes that can change color with emotion. Gold is Paul's protector and guide in this life. "I've had my head against his chest more times than I can recount. Not only have I heard breath but I have also noted the rising of the chest. When Gold touches me whether in the clinical sense or otherwise, it is as though there is a palpable emanation of energy incorporated into his touch. I get a surge of something that courses through my entire body. ..Why he has nipples I don't know but they are smooth and not with aureoles like ours."

High Strangeness? Repressed sexual fantasy? Whatever, it's not exactly evidence of babies actually being snatched from the womb.

edit on 8-7-2013 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 09:51 AM
reply to post by DelMarvel

Well put. I selected that example because it was one of the more intense that I've read of.

I don't know if I can find links for what I read a few decades ago, or not. Will keep looking as I can.

Heading off early to the college today.

May all have an overcoming Monday.

posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 10:00 AM
Extraterrestrials, ultra-terrestials, angels, demons, all semantics. I would concern myself with protecting your own realm right now and right quick.

posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 11:34 AM

Originally posted by BO XIAN

I don't know if I can find links for what I read a few decades ago, or not. Will keep looking as I can.

You have on multiple occasions on the thread cited the example of babies being removed from the womb after the first trimester as objective evidence which others are in denial about but as it turns out you cannot produce said evidence.

Not to be harsh but that needs to be pointed out. Thanks for looking anyway.

edit on 8-7-2013 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 12:52 PM

Originally posted by ZONTAR
Extraterrestrials, ultra-terrestials, angels, demons, all semantics. I would concern myself with protecting your own realm right now and right quick.

Is that "your own realm" meaning mine personally or are we talking about "our" collective realm? And why do you say so? What's coming in your opinion? Thanks for posting, I await your kind reply.

posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 05:58 PM
reply to post by DelMarvel

I suspect that you are aware . . .

"cannot" and

have not yet

are two different contexts, actions, eventualities.

I wonder how fast you might be at ferreting out something from 30+ years ago that was firmly and accurately lodged in your memory but without adequate normal references?

I've only begun to look. IF after 30-40 hours of diligence, actively looking time, I cannot come up with at least promising leads, you might have a point.


edit on 8/7/2013 by BO XIAN because: addition

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