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Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

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posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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At the age of 13 I had,, along with a close friend, a strange experience that was, in its' own way, a classic UFO sighting of a sort. I didn't speak about it at the time to anyone save the friend who was there and, lo and behold, a few days later my mum, who worked in a library comes home with a book and says " I think you should read this"... It was John Keel's Operation Trojan Horse. Coincidence? Big numbers,? Fine I can see how that is probably the rational explanation for that, so I read it and at that age, I wanted it to be "aliens", "travellers from the stars" and the evidence seemed to suggest that might well be what they were.

A couple of years later Devereaux publishes his book about "Earthlights" and though my heart did sink a little, I thought. "There we go, that's a good rump of unexplained now properly identified as a hitherto, unknown natural phenomenon.". It wasn't, at that time, the outcome I was hoping for however, that's how it panned out so that was that. Move on and let's see where we can nail those that remain as unidentified.

Later on there was the work of Persinger which really did launch the whole "it's in the head thing". Again here was a credible explanation for various experiences people have had and one that was big enough to admit that. "if this happened to you, you'd most likely be utterly convinced the experience was wholly real"

Plus, unlike those in the USA who sadly, seemingly are only fed folk tales from obscure tiny Middle Eastern tribes, I grew up with a rich tradition of folk tales from my own Islands Tales which commonly involve humans being abducted and taken "Under the hill", "The Faerie Realm" where one day passes and on returning home, months or even years have passed by. However, in the European tradition humans are not always the "good guys" and often it is human stubbornness, dogma and stupidity that leads to a sad ending to the fables.

As such I can the parallels , I can see how, in modern times we merely update those experiences to fit the model we know best. The Faeries become the Aliens etc etc. That's fine and I am sure that many an experience can be explained by these archetypes surfacing from the subconscious of a society almost wholly divorced from its' natural surroundings...............

Yet..... there, nagging away are sizeable rump of cases that don't fit those models. Cases where "seemingly solid objects" that also appear of radar are sighted. Cases where these "craft" look absolutely real, in any sense of the word as we understand it... cases where they leave traces and there is some genuine interaction with humans that,sometimes , lead to those humans suffering side effects for months and even years afterwards.

Forget all the whibble about daemons, if this intelligence can manipulate matter on a quantum level and make "projections" seem and act as a "real object" then they could walk right in and take over this world tomorrow and there wouldn't be a damned thing we could do about it, even if we were actually aware it had happened. That, they as far as we actually are aware, haven't can only mean they don't want to or feel the need to. So why do they make themselves known to us?

Take Rendlesham.... By moving a shed load of nuclear warheads right on top of one of their "special places", was that merely an act of human ignorance or was it a convenient location to achieve two ends. Stock pile warheads illegally undetected and at the same time see if we force their hand to make an appearance and then try and catalogue it , study it and use their "technology" for our own ends? Was there, behind the sabre rattling of moving those warheads there another agenda driven by our black op friends?
Maybe, the intelligence watched waited and then royally turned the tables on the black ops guys sending them home, tails between their legs having been consummately outflanked and out scammed with a genie that was, not just out of the bottle rather, sky-writing in huge letters.... "Oi monkeys, weird or what?"
Maybe at times, the Faeries do have a penchant for heavy grade footwear when we go prodding their special places?

Now before you say... "Errr what?.... is this dude for real?..... the facts are this. Societies around the world have cultural precedents for this explanation having some legs to it and that includes all the aboriginal cultures of Northern Europe.

Rendlesham has it all. Witnesses who saw a "nuts and bolts craft and touched it". Physical traces left on the ground and damage to trees. Two witnesses standing virtually next to each other who had almost totally different perspectives on what happened. One witness no-one remembers even being there. Witnesses who have had their world view changed and remember seemingly inexplicable mathematical figures. A base secretly stocked full of nuclear warheads which would almost certainly have had a commensurate black ops "guard" keeping an eye on what was going on in and around the base.




posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 

Brudda, what a brilliant expo that was^^^. One I will read again. And again. Thank you.



edit on 6-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 





Take Rendlesham.... By moving a shed load of nuclear warheads right on top of one of their "special places", was that merely an act of human ignorance or was it a convenient location to achieve two ends. Stock pile warheads illegally undetected and at the same time see if we force their hand to make an appearance and then try and catalogue it , study it and use their "technology" for our own ends? Was there, behind the sabre rattling of moving those warheads there another agenda driven by our black op friends?


This is quite brilliant, really.
An angle I have never even considered. Thanks for the extremely well written post!


However, it begs the question being: If true, just HOW MUCH do our Governments know about their activities?? I mean, it is no secret that we tend to put military bases right atop all of these "special places". If we can provoke actions such as Rendlesham what does that say about our own intelligence as it relates to theirs?


Again, great post.
edit on 6-7-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 


Thanks for an informative meaty narrative.

Perhaps you'd be willing to summarize your gestalt conclusions from all that . . . at this point.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 


I am confused on one little bit here if you could clear it up for me that would be great.

Its not 'demons' but rather it is 'faeries'?

Thanks



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by FireMoon
 


Thanks for an informative meaty narrative.

Perhaps you'd be willing to summarize your gestalt conclusions from all that . . . at this point.
Maybe it's not fair to ask FireMoon to summarize. I just fasten my seatbelt and enjoy the ride!!

Even when we're on opposite sides of the fence, I find that he knows alot about his side of said fence. He's been around this field a little more than he might care to share freely for not wanting to sound a braggart.
edit on 6-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I think any determination would be a moot point...

...and therein lies my issue with taking the religious approach to this issue. You actually create more questions than answers when you do this.
Instead, I just like to say "they may be the "Gods"", in quotes.

After all, it is we that assign that terminology. They may very well laugh at the notion and the result is the same.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 07:09 AM
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I agree that there are definitely MANY more possibilities as to the explanations of UFO's and what they are, besides extraterrestrials.

However, demons? No.. I think that that's nonsense.. Just because UFO sightings have commonalities with "old accounts/mythology regarding demons, etc" doesn't make such a thing plausible. I would consider it to be merely a lack of comprehension to what they were seeing back in older times and inability to describe it as we do now, thus using the aspects of their religion to explain what they were seeing and so on..

Also, I have never heard of there being similarities between modern day UFO reports/sightings and demonic possession. I can't think of how there would be similarities between the two, in anyway, as possession involves one becoming taken over by a nonliving and or nonhuman entity and the closest thing involving UFO phenomenon that I know of which relates even the slightest to that is supposed abductions.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by HairlessApe
 




No, the problem is that despite being given the data some people will say "there is no data" because they can't accept the objective fact that they've been proven wrong.


Evidently taking up a collection for replacement mirrors for the shattered ones would not likely help.

Many of us likely feel that we've offered substantive issues, points and even evidence . . . all totally ignored.

Some folks seem immune or inoculated against or willfully blind about the looming evils involved in the Ufology realm.

Time will certainly tell.


Unlike most of these folks who are offering forward what they feel is legitimate evidence, skeptics require evidence that doesn't necessarily need to be peer-reviewed or published in a scientific journal, but must at least stand up to the scrutiny of scientific method. I'm well aware my mind can play some pretty vivid tricks on me, and I can't believe everything I think I heard or saw. That's the difference, Bo.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


My research and convictions are as follows. I certainly realize that mileage may vary.

Many of the best experts I know of . . . including Dr Jacques Vallee

are suggesting that there are entities

maybe we could call them X Entities

behind ALL such troublesome phenomena. The labels are not as important as the character, nature of the X Entities.

Many scholars, researchers and observers believe quite reasonably

that BECAUSE OF THEIR BEHAVIOR

they can only be characterized as evil X Entities.

Dr Vallee is convinced that they are evil entities from an evil spiritual dimension--whatever the label.

The best high level panel of scholars that Guy Malone assembled concluded that they are fallen angels.

Demons are considered to be fallen angels who lost the mortal bodies in Noah's flood--leaving their eternal spirits to become "demons." Those bodies they had once and for all chosen to enable to copulate with human women--which they had observed with great lustfulness. God did not allow them to switch back and forth from "supernatural" bodies to mortal bodies via which they could copulate with women.

Given the 1/3 of the angels that chose to align with satan--far from all of them lost their bodies in Noah's flood. Plenty are still running around loose . . . now in league with the globalists . . . literally the literal satan worshiping globalists energetically setting up the tyrannical global government and one world religion to force the world's population into worship of the literal satan as the world leader. It is his passionate goal as revenge for getting kicked out of Heaven.

And, it was his goal of supplanting God to be worshiped as God that got him kicked out to begin with. Soooooo for 3.5-7 years, he will achieve his long sought goal that he has worked for millennia toward. And the stupid humans supporting him will eventually be trashed for their ignorant choices related thereto. And their dark lord will laugh at their misery.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by HairlessApe
 


I understand your perspective.

However, y'all never have any meaningful functional reply to the following. Perhaps you will be different.

Pretend . . .

That you are on Mars . . . the leader of the first human Mars colony.

and

That there are very mysterious goings on which do not fit any of even the categories used to observe, describe, interpret, manage, . . . life and reality theretofore.

Some of the goings on are humorous and evidently benign.

Some of the goings on seem to involve . . . for lack of a better word . . . weather phenomena though they are clearly NOT really weather.

Some of the goings on seem to involve a mysterious kind of flora though NOT flora in any conventional terms.

Some of the goings on seem to involve other . . . entities . . . that don't fit the term "animal" nor "human" nor maybe even "spirit."

Your best scientists have collected as much data as possible on all such goings on and all such factors. And there are hints of patterns here and there. There tend to be some consistent SEQUENTIAL sorts of events with some of the factors.

And, in some CONTEXTS, SOME of the factors seem to be more deadly than in other contexts.

But nothing is conclusive. And the factors simply

DO NOT LEND THEMSELVES TO SCIENTIFIC METHOD EXAMINATION.

They are too slippery; too complex; too transitory; etc. etc. NONE of them will voluntarily nor are any remotely possible to manipulate into a laboratory.

And whenever scientific instruments and cameras are set up . . . said equipment seems to mysteriously malfunction or produce mysterious or inconclusive data.

However, it is clear that the goings on with some of the key and most dramatic factors have been intensifying the last 6 months. You have lost 10% of your 500 person colony in very deadly and frightful events. Some even appear to have been deliberately tortured before death. And events seem to be escalating toward probably more deaths.

[color=6699FF]will you DOGGEDLY AND STUBBORNLY WAIT until you have conclusive "SCIENTIFIC PROOF" about what is going on with a full "SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION" before you form some hypotheses and DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN to prevent further loss of life?

Or would you use a more phenomenological approach to try and get a functional handle on the realities and try thereby to limit further loss of life?



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by TheIceQueen
 


Scientist Dr Jacques Vallee studied the problem most professionally for 10 years. He vigorously disagrees with you.

Have YOU studied the problem to such a depth [color=6699FF]with his high level connections for 10 years before forming your conclusions?

Guy Malone assembled a brilliant panel of high level scholars in ancient languages, archeology, ancient documents and a variety of other disciplines to try and ferret out what the critters are and what they are up to.

www.alienresistance.org...

THEIR more or less consensus disagreed with you in the sense that they called them fallen angels--not demons--but fallen angels.

Even some government types have asserted that some of the greys ARE DEMONS housed in bioengineered bodies that allow them to interact with our 3D environment.

Given all that scholarship and evidence,

I find your seemingly greatly biased personal opinion[/] to be very unconvincing and weak by comparison.

I hope you aren't betting your life on your opinions. . . . except that . . . actually . . . in a very real sense, you are.


.

edit on 7/7/2013 by BO XIAN because: addition



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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I will have a stab at a very basic explanation of, in part, what we may be dealing with here. Virtually every Earth culture has stories of "special places" where our world and the world of spirits/afterlife/faerie folk intersect. The nomenclature given to them is really not important. I'm North Western European so "Faerie Folk" sits easiest with me.

Now, there might well be no Faerie Lands/Other Realms etc, that's not really the issue at point. The issue is that there do seem to be areas of the world that have stimulating effect upon the human brain in a way that, leads one to feel one has had a spiritual experience. That experience is usually dependant on the person's own particular cultural background and biases.

In a country such at that I grew up in, with a high population density in a relatively small land mass. These areas sit cheek by jowl with often, major urban or fairly densely populated agricultural areas. My point about Rendlesham is this, given its' location there has been, for 2000 years, a huge social pressure to bringing any land in the area under the plough or for habitation. The truth is, Rendlesham is a relatively "remote" location. My hypothesis is that, this is because, people simply do not feel "comfortable" living around these areas and those that do maybe do not react as easily to the stimulus the areas trigger in people's brains.

What we don;t know is the following. Are all the "sightings and experiences" merely constructs of the human brain reacting to a certain stimulus that these areas naturally trigger in the human brain? Or, is there another intelligence we become aware of when our brains are triggered by local conditions?

If we say OK, it's all a human construct then, given the current evidence, we have to then address that we, as humans, seem to be able to manipulate matter on a quantum level to create tangible evidence of something that is essentially, an hallucination. For instance, the three "footprints" of the object at Rendlesham.

If this theory has any legs whatsoever then the ramifications are huge. To an extent, it matters not whether there are "aliens/faeries/call them what you will". There is evidence that, we as humans are capable, under certain conditions, of creating "real illusions" that can interact with other people. It goes without saying that, there would be those who seek to use this ability as a weapon.It also goes without saying that, those in power would not feel comfortable with...... one, knowing, virtually anyone can do this and two, talking about the possibility in public. To that extent tales of"alien visitors" are a very convenient method of distraction.

Me myself I feel, at this moment in time that, the wholly human explanation doesn't quite stack up. My own personal experience is that, at times, I have been aware of an outside intelligence observing us humanity and that, at times, for their own, as yet unidentified reasons, they choose sometimes, to interact with us;

Please understand, neither am I totally dismissing the possibility of us having been visited by "beings or probes" from other civilisations in our Universe. However, my current best fit for a large number of sightings and reports seems to suggest to me, an outside intelligence that "lives along side us. One that can "crossover almost at will whereas we humans, as yet, can mostly only ever achieve interaction by luck, by being in the right place, literally at the right time or. for a small cadre of people, by choice. There again, I could just be singing songs to my cat.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by The GUT

Maybe it's not fair to ask FireMoon to summarize. I just fasten my seatbelt and enjoy the ride!!

Even when we're on opposite sides of the fence, I find that he knows alot about his side of said fence. He's been around this field a little more than he might care to share freely for not wanting to sound a braggart.


I think it's fair ENOUGH. LOL.

Certainly he will have to gauge whether such a summary would disclose too much, or not.

It would just help me fix better in my mind the essentials of his perspective.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Well Bo, if these occurances happened as few and far between while I was the leader of Mars as they do here on Earth I would probably say something along the lines of:

"My fellow Martians; Recently the Red-House has received several questions about the origin of strange incidents reported around the globe involving phenomenon in the sky. These incidents have been reported by people of all areas and classes - from dairy farmers to plastic surgeons, though the number of recorded sightings are extremely limited - and out of all of the recorded sightings only a very small number could not be explained by conventional methods. Independent research into these phenomenon is perfectly legitimate and acceptable, but until a clear threat has been perceived by these reported entities, which neither my cabinet members nor myself have personally seen, I must reserve judgement. Using the government's workforce and the taxpayer's dollar would be a gross mismanagement of our time and funding, and if we fail to come to a sound conclusion regarding the matter after making the decision to research these events, I would have wasted the time and sweat of my constituents. Until conclusive evidence is provided, the government can no longer concern itself with this matter - as it has been proven too ambiguous to pursue. To date, no conclusion has been made about their origin."



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Bo, I must say I am impressed with your story telling.
This is the second time I have seen you pose the same question in a thread with a completely different, well crafted story.

Do you write by chance?



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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my name is john.i am 48 years old.when i was 5 years old in our house we had a black and white valve tv(43 years ago)no telephone,no ATMs,no mobile phones,nothing digital,no computers ect,ect.i remember being at senior school aged 16 (32 years ago)having a digital watch(two buttons ,red digits)fantastic the silicon chip had arrived.now 2013 gps,cars over 200mph,computers with high speed info ect.can you imagine now the technology that is going to be realised in the next thousand years.

suppose (on another planet)a few thousand years before evolution another race made the same advances in technology and also made advances in travel or in quantum physics and chemistry.we are just taking our baby steps as regards to discovery of our universe.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN

Demons are considered to be fallen angels who lost the mortal bodies in Noah's flood--leaving their eternal spirits to become "demons." Those bodies they had once and for all chosen to enable to copulate with human women--which they had observed with great lustfulness. God did not allow them to switch back and forth from "supernatural" bodies to mortal bodies via which they could copulate with women.



What's your source on the Noah's flood angle? I don't think there is even a scriptural basis for that but I'm certainly open to correction. However, unlike the rest of what we're discussing here there is irrefutable scientific evidence that Noah's flood did not happen as described. I'd say that any definition of "demons" that incorporates that tale falls firmly in the category of folklore.


edit on 7-7-2013 by DelMarvel because: (inserted code to get rid of underlining)

edit on 7-7-2013 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Every heard the term psychosomatic?

The mind attacking the body, basically. Injuries and physical ailments brought on by psychological process.

Mentally ill people commonly believe evil forces are behind injuries and harm they themselves have inadvertently inflicted upon themselves.

Just because someone claims to have injuries caused by demons does not mean it was caused by demons. Especially since the existence of demons is purely a subjective thing with no known basis in objective reality.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by JayinAR


However, it begs the question being: If true, just HOW MUCH do our Governments know about their activities?? I mean, it is no secret that we tend to put military bases right atop all of these "special places". If we can provoke actions such as Rendlesham what does that say about our own intelligence as it relates to theirs?



I think our governments know alot more about the UFO/paranormal connection than we give them credit for. I also think there are some members on this thread, know about what the governments knows but for some reason feel the need to "keep us in the dark". The military has research facilities dedicated to exploring "high strangeness" but the information the military gleans isn't for the consumption of us ordinary folk.

I also think that private investigation into ufo/paranormal realms is discredited and discouraged by tptb, either thru intimidation or labels of wacko nut bars.
edit on 7-7-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)




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