Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

reply to post by The GUT


imho . . . and that of many others . . .

Jung was an occultist. His values etc. were heavily influenced, if not dictated by the evil spirit guides he subscribed to and sought out. He's a definite part of the charade from hell.

reply to post by DelMarvel


Conceivable.

However, I consider it highly unlikely.

If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck . . .

as the critters . . . uhhhh do . . . metaphorically.

Well, not entirely.
True, Vallee exposed the similarities of old legends, the Little People, Gnomes, etc. as the equivalent of today's UFO phenomenon, but in the last few decades we've had some major new issues to deal with:

- Abduction cases
- Exposure of hybrids - supposed human-alien interbreeding
- Cattle and animal mutilations
- The entire psychic or "consciousness" agenda of channeling, hypnotic regression, and other forms of alien communition
- Experimental, psychedelic drug research which in many cases mimics the experiences seen in UFO encounters and Near-Death experiences ('___', '___', ketamine)

I don't think Vallee found any similar in the past, although incubi and sucubi might be close to the hybrid events.

(Was responding to Bo Xian - - two other responses snuck in there while I was typing!)

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Welllllllllllll . . . in most respects . . . as Dr Jacques Vallee and others have noted . . . the 'new' ET 'clothing," meme, charade . . . is NOT all THAT new.

Basically the same activities as in the Middle Ages and earlier. Different labels. Different clothing. Different transportation modes.

Still involved in cross breeding; taking children; inserting themselves into families and culture.

Yeah, you're right, only the modern form of the ET mask would be new, but not even that new as "Martians" showed up in Victorian spiritism. And before that, even, although I'm having trouble with coming up with the name of the cat I'm trying to think of...arrrgh, right on the tip of my tongue...starts with an "S" maybe?

Regardless, and contrary to a prior argument seen here, any commonalities would seem more suggestive of a phenomena that is consistently goal oriented---All Ur Base Are Belong to Us.

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
Well, not entirely.
True, Vallee exposed the similarities of old legends, the Little People, Gnomes, etc. as the equivalent of today's UFO phenomenon, but in the last few decades we've had some major new issues to deal with:

- Abduction cases

DITTO IN THE PAST

- Exposure of hybrids - supposed human-alien interbreeding

DITTO in the past.

- Cattle and animal mutilations

PERHAPS Not as common but also present in the past. Some might say it was as common. Certainly evidently not with the precision and exactly repeated methodology of the present era.

- The entire psychic or "consciousness" agenda of channeling, hypnotic regression, and other forms of alien communition

There were historical analogues to such that were quite similar, if not identical.

- Experimental, psychedelic drug research which in many cases mimics the experiences seen in UFO encounters and Near-Death experiences ('___', '___', ketamine)

Not with the white lab coats but much of the herbal stuff of the past involved very similar "experimentation."

I don't think Vallee found any similar in the past, although incubi and sucubi might be close to the hybrid events.

Yes, definitely so.

More food for thought:

“If UFOs are, indeed, somebody else's 'nuts and bolts hardware' then we must still explain how such tangible hardware can change shape before our eyes, vanish in a cheshire cat manner (not leaving a grin), seemingly melt away in front of us, or apparently 'materialize' mysteriously before us without apparent detection by persons nearby or in neighboring towns. We must wonder, too, where UFOs are 'hiding' when not manifesting themselves to human eyes.”

- J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee, The Edge on Reality, pp. xii-xiii

“The statistical data which I have extracted, and which I have tried to summarize briefly here, indicate that flying saucers are not stable machines requiring fuel, maintenance, and logistical support. They are, in all probability, transmogrifications of energy and do not exist in the same way that this book exists. They are not permanent constructions of matter.”

- John Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, p. 182

“Many UFO reports, he said, seem to pertain more to accounts of 'poltergeists' (cases where objects fly around the room and strange sounds are heard) and other types of 'psychic' manifestations than to 'actual solid items of nuts and bolts hardware.' 'That is one of the reasons,' added Dr. Hynek, 'why I cannot accept the obvious explanation of UFOs as visitors from outer space.'”

- J. Allen Hynek interview, The Unexplained Column, by Allen Spraggett, November 8, 1975

“There is another system. It is sending us messengers of deception. They are not necessarily coming from nearby stars. In terms of the effect on us, it doesn't matter where they come from. I even suspect that 'where' and 'when' have no meaning here. How could we be alone? The black box of science has stopped ticking. People look upward to the stars in eager expectation.

Receiving a visit from outer space sounds almost as comfortable as having a God. Yet we shouldn't rejoice too soon. Perhaps we will get the visitors we deserve.”

- Jacques Vallee, Messengers of Deception, p. 246

Food for thought, continued...

... perhaps we're facing something which is basically a social technology. Perhaps the most important effects from the UFO technology are the social ones and not the physical ones. In other words the physical reality may serve only as a kind of triggering device to provide images for the witness to report. These perceptions are manipulated to create certain kinds of social effects.”

- Vallee Discusses UFO Control System, Fate Magazine, p. 65

“Certain saucer cultists, who have been expecting space brethren to bring along some pie in the sky, continue to deliver saucer-inspired sermons on the theme that the saucers come to bring starry salvation to a troubled world. The self-appointed ministers who preach this extraordinary brand of evangelism ignore the fact that not ALL "saucers" can be considered friendly. Many give evidence of hostile actions. There is a wealth of well-documented evidence that UFO's have been responsible for murders, assaults, burning by direct-ray focus, radiation sickness, kidnappings, pursuits of automobiles, attacks on homes, disruption of power sources, paralysis, mysterious cremations, and destructions of aircraft. Dozens of reputable eye-witnesses claim to have seen alien personnel loading their space vehicles with specimens from earth, including animals, soil and rocks, water and struggling human beings.”

- Brad Steiger, Flying Saucers are Hostile (p.? quoted by Branton)

“Demonology is not just another crackpot-ology. It is the ancient and scholarly study of the monsters and demons who have seemingly coexisted with man throughout history. Thousands of books have been written on the subject, many of them authored by educated clergymen, scientists and scholars, and uncounted numbers of well-documented demonic events are readily available to every researcher. The manifestations and occurences described in this imposing literature are similar, if not entirely identical, to the UFO phenomenon itself. Victims of demonomania (possession) suffer the very same medical and emotional symptoms as the UFO contacts.

... The devil and his demons can, according to the literature, manifest themselves in almost any form and can physically imitate anything from angels to horrifying monsters with glowing eyes. Strange objects and entities materialize and dematerialize in these stories, just as the UFOs and their splendid occupants appear and disappear, walk through walls, and perform other supernatural feats.”

- John Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, p. 192

“Satan was also called 'The Prince of The Powers of the Air [Ephesians 2:2],' and was regarded as the ruler over a wide range of kingdoms above and below the earth, all of which had vehicles for traversing the underworld, the land, the sea, and particularly the firmament. In Zechariah, Chapter 5, we find the prophet speaking with an angel of the Lord:

Again, I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and beheld a flying scroll (cylindrical or 'cigar shaped' UFO?). And then he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying scroll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. Then he said unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth...

- William M. Mott, An Excerpt from Caverns, Cauldrons and Concealed Creatures

Does anyone have any information on the validity or status on the information in the following quote?

“On December 17, 1996, scientists from the Atmospheric Sciences Department at Creighton University in Nebraska released video footage of a mysterious spherical object travelling at one-hundredth the speed of light (1,860 miles per second)... The object can clearly be seen crossing upward and left across the field of view...

The objects fantastic flight pattern led Morris B. Pongratz, a scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, to state that 'it is clearly something that does not have mass, the angular speed is too fast to be anything at orbital velocity.'”

The whole theory of the UFO phenomenon being supernatural in nature is nothing new. Jaques Vallee, John Keel, ect, have postulated this stuff for years. However, it is one theory I examined and rejected long ago for a number of reasons:

1. Demons/supernatural/metaphysical matters are, as far as I am concerned, completely subjective, It does not have an objective reality so to speak, as far as I can tell, no objective evidence has surfaced supporting a completely objective experience. The same does not apply for UFOs, which have left real quantifiable trace evidence, such as radar returns, multiple witness sightings, traces of radiation, imprints, physical damage.

2. The abduction aspect of Ufology is only a tiny part of the whole issue. And a very controversial one, with little concrete evidence, unlike other UFO issues.

3. Trying to explain a relatively uncertain phenomenon, especially a very controversial one, such as UFOs, with an even more speculative, controversial, and questionable phenomenon like supernatural matters, is folly. The existence of UFOs is still debated, trying to explain it with a phenomenon that is even more questionable in its objective existance just does not work.

SATURN




thus far cosmic debris...

reply to post by The GUT


That was very well spoken (via cyber) my friend, nice

The truth ismost here are neophytes in relation to understanding what this reality is, what is beyond it, and what is happening on not just a GLOBAL scale but a SOLAR scale.

Its easy to see how this planet is a prison for souls - just look at society with a non-bias perception and bingo

I am not name calling or trying to be rude - but there is a RACE to gain the lost knowledge our ancestors once had - and that window is closing because the elites understand what I just said - and its a THREAT to the prison system, to the religious system, the governmental (govern-your-mind) system, and the banking system.

If humanity seeksin the right direction - and more and more become outlets with the knowledge - and spread that knowledge - everything will change. The society box (squaring the circle) will shatter as it is known, and humanity will no longer ask or protest for change - they WILL MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN.

But the knowledge is the key - the aliens, the dark matter, the space, money, the science, the "god term" (especially that Jesus character who is actually "Son of Zues"/Je-zues) ... All these things do not matter - they are the hypnotic distraction for the human mind...

The true power and outlet of knowledge IS THE HUMAN BEING. If humans werent so powerful in potential - why so much secreacy and ambition to silence the human mind? Why so much effort to re-write history and create systems that make the human look OUTSIDE of itself??

Because the humans potential mentally, spiriutaly and physically IS ULTIMATE. And this is what you are not to know. But the gig is up - we dont play games anymore - we go right for this knowledge - we fight these demons and entities on the astral realm ("4th dimension in new age terms") - we take back what has been stolen for centuries - the TRUTH of our existance and BEING.

And that is all I will say for this thread. I thank you for your thread, and your response brother - your manners and humbleness is appreciated

The time to recieve this KNOWLEDGE is NOW - the conspiracies are only a distraction - the edward snowden, julian assange, obama, isreal/iran/syria/egypt, WW3, military, alien invasion blah blah blah. .. ITS ALL A HYPNOTIC DISTRACTION! So the HUMAN observer will just OBSERVE and never take action!

We need WILL power - with the knowledge Im speaking of - which WILL change this planet - those who are reading my words and feel the resonation in their chest - you are the ones im calling out - you are the outlets, the ones with potential to change.

Thanks again Gut, take care brother

Sigh.

I wish such issues weren't so tedious.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The whole theory of the UFO phenomenon being supernatural in nature is nothing new. Jaques Vallee, John Keel, ect, have postulated this stuff for years. However, it is one theory I examined and rejected long ago for a number of reasons:

1. Demons/supernatural/metaphysical matters are, as far as I am concerned, completely subjective, It does not have an objective reality so to speak, as far as I can tell, no objective evidence has surfaced supporting a completely objective experience.

How SUBJECTIVE do you think the millions of oppressed individuals and families think their experiences were wherein there were physical damage to their bodies and sometimes horrible deaths from demonic forces?

2. The abduction aspect of Ufology is only a tiny part of the whole issue. And a very controversial one, with little concrete evidence, unlike other UFO issues.

How many of the more than 3 MILLION abductees have you talked to face to face about how SUBJECTIVE the traumas they experienced were?

How SUBJECTIVE do you think it was to the mothers who had their babies taken from their wombs at the end of the first trimester with not a shred of baby evidence left--sometimes the very evening of the exam that day by the gynecologist who had VERY NON-SUBJECTIVELY VERIFIED that

1. THE BABY WAS THERE and
2. That the baby was doing fine.

The same does not apply for UFOs, which have left real quantifiable trace evidence, such as radar returns, multiple witness sightings, traces of radiation, imprints, physical damage.

NO LESS REAL than the damages--cuts, scratches, breaks, death and destruction to bodies and property by demonic forces.

3. Trying to explain a relatively uncertain phenomenon, especially a very controversial one, such as UFOs, with an even more speculative, controversial, and questionable phenomenon like supernatural matters, is folly. The existence of UFOs is still debated, trying to explain it with a phenomenon that is even more questionable in its objective existance just does not work.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh methinks your biases are showing fairly brazenly . . . evidently you have been swallowing wholesale the dogma, doctrines and blather of the religion of scientism and the PTB MSM mass media brainwashing memes.

The demonic literature is a lot older and MORE VERIFIED than the modern UFO literature.

M Unger is a decent source.

Neil Anderson

Bob Larson

Derek Prince

all have jousted with such successfully and have plenty of narratives in their literature.

The notion that the GREEK manner of KNOWING is the only valid one is idiocy on the face of it--for thought-filled people.

reply to post by covertpanther


It's not the topic but related . . .

Lee Strobel's THE SEARCH FOR THE REAL JESUS

might be of value to you.

I think you may have unwittingly bought into some deceptions along the way.

The UFO critters are not nice in any way shape or form.

They ARE in cahoots with the LUCIFERIAN GLOALIST NWO OLIGARCHY toward overtly establishing the already in place global government on the world stage in broad daylight.

I don't think the explanation you articulated seems to me to quite understand that reality very robustly.

This is exactly what happens to the human mind when it doesn't receive enough input.

As an example, ppl who spend a long time in complete isolation from any form of input, mental or physical often start to hallucinate.

Ppl are now starting to feel that nothing they do or say can solve the mystery of UFOs. They see no end, no chance of anything happening in the nearest future. They have seen it all and every new thing that is presented to them is fake, computer cgi or lies (or so it seems, not necessarily true at all).

So their minds start to wander off. Seeking explanations in whatever old superstition or religion they know of. Demonology, religion or theories of other dimensions.

Not thinking twice that there may actually be real physical technology that we just cant grasp with our minds yet. Races maybe a billion years old. Maybe our scientists are way off, maybe the universe is 3 times older than what we today say it is. There might be races older than the earth itself using technology we will never be able to create, ever.

reply to post by BO XIAN


What you want to follow and perceive that you cannot commune with - is non of my business.

"Jesus" is not even a true name of an indivdual who walked this earth in those times with 'miracle' abilities. The letter "j" in those times didnt even make the sound that you pronounce it with, with your tongue on the roof of your mouth pushing the air/prana outwards.

The name would really be pronounced as "Yesus" back in those times - so the "king" you blindly follow because you read a book about a character - is not the same energy that is referred to in the Bible. The stories of the Bible come from ancient indian culture - not hebrew.

The bible and "Yesus" man were only created lies to trap minds via fear of the "Lord" who will banish you - but in this reality its bs just another deception created by the artifical womb - the church.

But people are free to lead their souls into traps - my words can only influence you to find the truth - but as Yesus once 'said' he will make man a fisher of men - souls are fish in the ocean of creation - Yesus traps or catches those fish/souls

There is NO human being that is only in commune with the creator source - and anyone who says they are - is a liar and only has an agenda or quest to deceive and trap human minds/souls.

As we ALL have the ability and right to contact the highest source which is WITHIN not OUTSIDE - and that s the secret of being Hu-man

Take care my friend

reply to post by covertpanther


Try Yeshua.

HE HAS helped at least 100's of folks stop "ET" abductions in the middle of them . . . and stopped generations of their family experiencing such from happening ever again.

Of course, you seem sold on a very different construction on reality. Given the centrality of Yeshua as Creator God . . . the results of your construction on reality may not turn out as well as those who have called on and depended on Yeshua to help stop fallen angel/ET ruthless abductions.

reply to post by Chazam


Your explanation leaves out the problem of consciousness and comes across in an extremely condescending manner.

The UFO as 'gods' or 'demons' is still a valid line of investigation as all those things occurred withing the consciousness.

Once you can materially define and locate consciousness and predict future thought with accuracy based upon the movements of protons and electrons within the brain you can confidently pursue your claims, however until then you merely playing the fool.

reply to post by The GUT


Have any evidence that's not a drawing, a personal testimony, or something that's made with material that could quite easily be found on earth? Or do the demon-aliens conveniently only use things that are really obscure? Or perhaps they intentionally confuse us, like Christian God with dinosaur bones? Because... Uh... If these supreme beings actually revealed themselves to us in mass... We'd all... Uh... Know how to stop them? Or something?

I've put years into this stuff - there's nothing there. And for a long time I WANTED SO BADLY to believe. I'm quite happy that I'm over that stage of my life.

Everyone's got "the truth" but no one can prove it. No one.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The whole theory of the UFO phenomenon being supernatural in nature is nothing new. Jaques Vallee, John Keel, ect, have postulated this stuff for years. However, it is one theory I examined and rejected long ago for a number of reasons...

Yeah, the first time I came across these ideas and Vallee in particular, I found them interesting but rejected them as well. Years later, after plumbing the depths of ufology and the internet, I had to re-examine the issue and found the questions posed by the IDH to be valid. Not definitive, but valid.

Of course, there are rebuttals to his paper, but maybe a rereading--assuming you've read this--might be rewarding:

Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of Unidentified Flying Objects (PDF)

For anyone who may have missed it, the following video from the thread Extraterrestrial hypothesis vs Jacques Vallee by the awesome Mr. Mask is both fun and informative.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by Chazam

 

Your explanation leaves out the problem of consciousness and comes across in an extremely condescending manner.

The UFO as 'gods' or 'demons' is still a valid line of investigation as all those things occurred withing the consciousness.

Once you can materially define and locate consciousness and predict future thought with accuracy based upon the movements of protons and electrons within the brain you can confidently pursue your claims, however until then you merely playing the fool.

edit on 5-7-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

The fact that he's condescending in no way makes his point less relevant.

None of what you said makes any sense. Predict the future using the protons and electrons in your brain...? That's not how your brain works. I think maybe you're trying to refer to neurons? Completely different. Could you be more clear, please?

reply to post by HairlessApe


What makes up the cells in your brain . . . do you even know what the electrical current is that is transferring signals through neurons?

EDIT
Basically I think you should go and study the information we know about the brain and signalling. We can measure when a thought or emotion is being felt but the process behind such activity is far more elusive.