Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews

reply to post by Deetermined

Isaiah 53 is describing the exact same thing that Jesus said in John 5:39.

I think you have that backwards. You should say that John 5:39 is describing what Isaiah 53 was doing, not that I necessarily agree with that.
In the Gospel of John, The Baptist says "Behold the lamb of God", where it uses the same word as the Septuagint uses in Isaiah 53 where it says "like a lamb silent before its shearers". So the New Testament borrows little snippets from the OT, for phraseology.
Now there is a God, and I don't deny that, and also there was this same God during the millenniums before the NT was written, and this same God could have had some bits of usable wordage be in the OT, but that does not endorse the OT canon or the various gods mentioned in it.

It is Old Testament scripture that testifies of Jesus.

Mainly it was Jesus himself, and what he did and said, as it has him saying in the gospel that you were quoting from in your other post.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luke has his version of Jesus saying things that was really a literary device to put exposition into the story.
In Luke's mind, there were things in the OT that Jesus had to fulfill. You see that idea coming up a lot in his book, and you also see a related thing to that, which is using current events to interpret OT predictions and saying here is it being fulfilled.
If you look at all the supposed fulfillments according to "scripture" in the NT, you have to conclude that there was a lot of other writings out there that they considered scripture besides the OT.

reply to post by Deetermined

I won't comment on your first two paragraphs because they made absolutely no sense to me.

If someone tells the Jews who think that they are Israelites, "You did not listen to Moses, you did not see God's form or hear His voice, you did not study the scripture", then you are basically telling them that they may be something they invented, but they aren't Israelites.

As for John 1:18, I find it funny that you post a verse that basically states that Jesus is God, but yet you'll argue the opposite.

There is a generic sense of the word, God, being used in that verse. It does not say they are the same person, but one is the son of the other. What I deny is your claim that Jesus is the same person as the various gods mentioned in the OT.

As for the other verse you posted, we all know that no one has seen God in his natural state because doing so would be deadly, that's why we have Jesus as the physical manifestation of God.

Where do you get this "natural state" thing from? It doesn't specify in the verse what state anyone saw God in, it just says no one saw Him.

Forgive me for not continuing to reply to any more of your posts, as I know that your comments are all in vain.

Feel free to not reply, then I can make counterclaims against your statements without the nuisance of being called on any of it, and having to defend my own position.

I've been informed that you claim to be a Christian only to gain the respect of other Christians on ATS, but that you have actually denied Jesus as your Savior, so there's no more point in trying to help the blind to see, since you've chosen to stay blind.

That is SimonPeter who made up his own creed to test other people's faith with, by asking if they subscribe to it, where he has his own definition of salvation that is not supported by the Bible. You should not pay attention to people playing the part of the devil like that, flinging accusations but not supporting their own claims with the Bible.

reply to post by jmdewey60


What exactly is your definition of salvation, Dewey?

reply to post by Deetermined

What exactly is your definition of salvation, Dewey?

What it is not, is Jesus being a sacrifice to shed blood to pay for sins, since it never says that in the Bible.
The term Salvation, in the New Testament, is God's creation of the church with Jesus being the head of it, and we being the members.
Jesus gave his life to bring that into being, but he did not do it in order to appease the demands of some unknown entity demanding payment in blood for sins.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well, that certainly explains why you don't understand most of the Bible.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Not jews.

Israelites.

God chose the physical tribes of the nation of Israel to work with physically during a phase of God's plan prior to the receiving of the Passover sacrifice of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ) who took away the sins of the world, allowing for God's plan to enter a new spiritual phase (no longer worked with physically, but rather spiritually; in the mind).

Pre-Jesus God worked physically in the lives of those called out of the world to learn God's way of life during this first life. All those God called to be worked with prior to the acceptance of the Passover (death of Jesus Christ) were born in the tribes of the decendants of Israel (or became Israelite once converted i.e. Ruth).

There were 12 tribes of Israel 1 of which was called Judah.

1 generation after King Solomon Israel was torn in 2, the northern 10 tribes were called Israel because the tribes of Ephraim and Mennessah (sons of Joseph) were to bare the name Israel forever. Which ever empire Ephraim and Mennassah dwell in/rule will be called Israel by God forever. The southern 2 tribes were called "Judah" (Levites were un-affiliated with either as the priesthood tribe); they are made up of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and their land was called "Judah" from that day forward as they are no longer part of "Israel" physically.

Jews are Judah now, not Israel. They lost the title Israel when they chose to seperate from the North after the death of Solomon.

Who is Israel today if it is not the jews?

Hebrew for "covenant/chosen" = Birith
Hebrew for "people belonging to" = ish

Birithish = Hebrew word for chosen people belong to the covenant.

No vowels in Hebrew.
No vowels in old English.

British.

Look at which decsendants ruled the Earth for the last 250 years through the UK (Ephriam) and USA (Mennassah).

Which "peoples' received the inheiritance promised to Abraham before the end of this age?

Who have possesed the gates of their enemies (Suez Canal, Panama Canal)?

Who has had 1/3rd of all resources up until God began removing the blessings upon those nations?

Which nation coronates Kings over a stone of destiny, just as Israel did over Jacob's pillar stone? (hint: it is the exact same rock from 3500 years ago beneath the thrown in Westminster Abby)

Which nation still has a monarchy for no appearent reason, with no real power. Ask yourself why this thrown must never end in an age where monarchy is dead?

"New Jerusalem on England's green and pleasant land..." (song sung at Olympic Games last year).

To answer your question, Christians follow a God that chose the physical decsendants of Israel (12 tribes) to be worked with during a phase of God's plan that was wholely physical. Today God chooses all mankind (jew and gentile) to be worked with during this present phase of God's plan which is wholely spiritual (in the mind, how one thinks).

God Bless,

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well the Frost is certainly off the Pumpkin now ! I would ask you what your beliefs were but I think your ashamed of them , so I will not . But I did note some leanings towards Islam with your disgust for Israel and some reverence towards Christ but not including his sacrifice for sin or being the Son of God .

reply to post by SimonPeter

I would ask you what your beliefs were but I think your ashamed of them

Why would I believe in things that I would be ashamed of?

I did note some leanings towards Islam with your disgust for Israel

No, I just side with the rightful inhabitants of the country of Palestine vs. the foreign invaders stealing the land who merely call themselves Israel. Real Israel is spiritual Israel, those who follow Jesus.

some reverence towards Christ but not including his sacrifice for sin or being the Son of God

Look at my post above for my view of Jesus being the son of God.
As for the death of Jesus, that was a sacrifice on his part personally, and it was a sacrifice by God, giving his son over to be killed by the enemy.
Jesus died because there is sin in the world and he was doing his part to end our living in sinfulness, so in a way, Jesus died on account of our sins.
I asked you a while back to produce a verse from the Bible to support the clause in your home-made creed that says that we are saved by Jesus' blood, and so far you have not.
Have you revised your creed, then, accordingly, and this is your new version, that Jesus died for our sins?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well I still see no confession of your beliefs . I only see an assault on Christian views by only one man. How is it that no one else can see it your way ? May God help you !

Originally posted by ElohimJD
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

British.

Look at which decsendants ruled the Earth for the last 250 years through the UK (Ephriam) and USA (Mennassah).

Which "peoples' received the inheiritance promised to Abraham before the end of this age?

Who have possesed the gates of their enemies (Suez Canal, Panama Canal)?

Who has had 1/3rd of all resources up until God began removing the blessings upon those nations?

Which nation coronates Kings over a stone of destiny, just as Israel did over Jacob's pillar stone? (hint: it is the exact same rock from 3500 years ago beneath the thrown in Westminster Abby)

Which nation still has a monarchy for no appearent reason, with no real power. Ask yourself why this thrown must never end in an age where monarchy is dead?

"New Jerusalem on England's green and pleasant land..." (song sung at Olympic Games last year).

To answer your question, Christians follow a God that chose the physical decsendants of Israel (12 tribes) to be worked with during a phase of God's plan that was wholely physical. Today God chooses all mankind (jew and gentile) to be worked with during this present phase of God's plan which is wholely spiritual (in the mind, how one thinks).

God Bless,

edit on 9-7-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)

Just a heads up, Elohim is preaching a heresy that is not accepted by anyone in orthodox Christianity. Without closer inspection, I would say its a garden variety damnable AngloIsraelism heresy.

Originally posted by GeneralMishka

 

Just a heads up, Elohim is preaching a heresy that is not accepted by anyone in orthodox Christianity. Without closer inspection, I would say its a garden variety damnable AngloIsraelism heresy.

Is 'orthodox' not a synonym for made-up belief system for the masses to be swallowed without questioning? Why are you unwilling to 'inspect' his 'heresy'? What are you afraid of, the truth?

Heads up for you, the days of the inquisition are over.

Originally posted by TheConstruKctionofLight
ThinkingHuman question everything! The above is so innacurate...Abraham was from the land of Ur, later settled in Cannan. Ur was thought to be located in Mesopotamia or even Iraq.

The Jehovah "the lofty one" that the Roman created Christianity has you worship was a war mongering god.
Here's a great thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

question everything "you are all gods"

I am incorrect by saying that Abraham was not Jewish, or that he was one of the greatest men to have walked earth? In your opinion, I mean, of course.

Abraham was Hebrew. "And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew ..." (Gen 14:13)

There are scholars that say he was Chaldean.

God chose him, and he became "father of many nations".

The origin of the Jews was well after the time of Abraham. Jews did not exist until many years after Abraham. Abraham's two sons, Ishmael and Isaac were not Jewish since neither Abraham nor their mothers were "Jewish." Esau became the father of the Edomites, a group distinct from the Jews and he had the same father - Isaac - that Jacob did.

Isaac's son Jacob is the one to whom the term Israel was first used, and he got this designation by a mere change of name, not by racial descent. It wasn't long before the term was applied to Jacob's children and then to all of his descendents.

Jacob (Israel) had twelve sons, one of whom was named Judah. When the Israelites entered the Promised Land, the territory was divided among the twelve tribes. The tribe of Judah, being the largest, received the largest portion of land. It was also the tribe from whom the Messiah would later come.

The word "Judean" (later shortened to "Jew) refers to those who lived in this area. The term "Jew" is from the Greek word "ioudaios". It is actually short for the word Judean or, more accurately, Ioudas, pronounced ee-oo-dah-yos.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I asked you a while back to produce a verse from the Bible to support the clause in your home-made creed that says that we are saved by Jesus' blood, and so far you have not.

Here are just a few, but you can see many more regarding this topic in the link below...

Matthew 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 Peter 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 John 1:7-9

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Revelation 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Jesus' blood = www.openbible.info...

Repent = www.openbible.info...


With REPENTANCE, we are saved THROUGH THE BLOOD of Jesus Christ!

Dewey, it takes more than believing that Jesus Christ exists to be saved.

reply to post by Deetermined


I'm sure that everything you have quoted will be disallowed as inadmissible in his tribunal . He ho does not seek will never find !
Good job any way , excellent quotes !

reply to post by Deetermined

Matthew 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Jesus is holding up a cup to his disciples as they are eating their Passover supper, he tells all of them to drink from it, then says that this is his "blood" of the New Covenant, apparently with the idea that covenants need some kind of blood to make them official, so he makes the wine the "blood", then reinforces the reality of the wine and the metaphorical meaning of the blood, by mentioning that he would not drink of the fruit of the vine (otherwise known as wine) until he drinks it with them in his father's kingdom.
The covenant of course has as its purpose the forgiveness of sins.
The Christian church recognizes this as one of the Bible references that establishes the practice of the Lord's Supper, as noted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11,

For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

With REPENTANCE, we are saved THROUGH THE BLOOD of Jesus Christ!

That is a saying that you make up, not a Bible verse, I should point out.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You don't have to worry JM you won't get any blood on you . I don't suppose Jesus being called the Lamb of God meant anything to you ? Or the blood sacrifice on the alter of God relates to the situation at all ? Nor the offering of Isaac to God as requested by God ? Are you of the opinion that Jesus did not die on the cross ? Or that his heart was not pierced with a sword and blood and water poured out ?
To say we are saved by the blood sacrifice of Jesus our Lord is correct . Because all sacrifices to God involves blood , that is except Cain's vegetables . Remember how that turned out ?

reply to post by SimonPeter

You don't have to worry JM you won't get any blood on you

If I was a fellow member of your cult, I would take that as a threat. Seeing how I am not, it has no meaning to me.

I don't suppose Jesus being called the Lamb of God meant anything to you

It does, as a reference to Isaiah 53 of the lamb dumb before the shearer.

Or the blood sacrifice on the alter of God relates to the situation at all

No, sorry, should it, if so, then the New Testament writers were amiss to have neglected mentioning it.

Nor the offering of Isaac to God as requested by God

See my comment above.

Are you of the opinion that Jesus did not die on the cross

Why would you think that. I think that you are self-deluded into thinking that I must not be a Christian based on you own home-made test of what a Christian is that you in turn have based on man-made teachings within your cult.

Or that his heart was not pierced with a sword and blood and water poured out

See my comment above.

To say we are saved by the blood sacrifice of Jesus our Lord is correct . Because all sacrifices to God involves blood , that is except Cain's vegetables . Remember how that turned out ?

We did not sacrifice Jesus to God.
God sacrificed His son for us.
Please get this straight, otherwise instead of forgiveness you may only get condemnation. You place Jesus' blood on your head as proclaimed by the multitude who cried out for his death.

JM you are truly special !reply to post by jmdewey60

Originally posted by jmdewey60

 

God sacrificed His son for us.
Please get this straight, otherwise instead of forgiveness you may only get condemnation. You place Jesus' blood on your head as proclaimed by the multitude who cried out for his death.

Can you explain to me the rational behind God having to sacrifice somebody for his sake?

God created a flawed product, us humans, then he blames the "clay" for the "potter's" mistakes? Then he makes another human, and somehow his death leads to the salvation for sinners? Salvation from his own wrath?

Shouldn't God recognize his own limitation instead?

reply to post by jmdewey60

With REPENTANCE, we are saved THROUGH THE BLOOD of Jesus Christ!

That is a saying that you make up, not a Bible verse, I should point out.

Why don't you try opening the links I provided you.

1 John 1:9 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Luke 13:3 ESV

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19 ESV

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,

Acts 2:38 ESV

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 3:9 ESV

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Matthew 3:2 ESV

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 3:8 ESV

Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

Matthew 4:17 ESV

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”