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Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews

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posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
 
Why? Is that war still going on today? NO!

The war between the Sunnis and Shiites is still going on today.

And did any country, say, Iran invade England when it was still going on? They could have justified it with self-defense, right?




posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

The Islamic Quran in ''Night Journeys 17:100 - 104'' Allah gives the land for the Jews to inhabit forever
I asked you to quote that in another thread and you never did.
What that section does is retell the Exodus story with the god being Allah, and Moses as a Muslim. There is no mention of anyone involved being "Jews".

Like the Europeans who did not require a mandate to kill off the Indians and take their lands , the Israelis need no help to give them the ability to take and hold land God will provide that
And just like the "Europeans" not needing a mandate by God to "kill the Indians", the Zionists did not need a mandate from God to kill the Palestinians.

Christians have not been their facilitator , God has put them there against all odds
That is delusional happy-talk propaganda. The historical reality is that it was the British, who took Palestine from the Ottomans at the end of WW I who facilitated the take-over by arming and training the Jews, and by issuing the Balfour Declaration.

That place called Israel is a very poor patch of land for any nation to fight over
Historically, it was one of the wealthiest places on earth. The problem was that as usual, the wealth was syphoned off to a few rich people. Where do you think Herod the Great came up with the money to build the most fabulous temple on earth at that time? Jericho was the center of the Balsam trade which was worth its weight in Gold, and Galilee proved a large portion of the dried fish that supplied the Roman Empire. Right now the Israelis are drilling for oil in Palestinian waters and pumping oil on land that they stole in the 67 war.
edit on 6-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
 
You asking the same questions over and over again is really getting old. What's amusing to me is that people try to explain the Bible to you and answer your questions, but you don't even understand the explanations being given, so I guess the whole point is moot.
Yes, it is moot to give me explanations that are pulled out of thin air. I am asking only one question, Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews? You keep on refusing to answer that one, and instead insist on talking about Sunnis and other unrelated stuff.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 


I answered that question on the very first page of your thread. I gave you a link because it expresses my views and it provides Bible verses to back up my view in a concise manner. Since then, I have answered your individual questions past the original explanation, but for some reason you just want me keep repeating myself, like you keep doing. Why do you want me to keep repeating myself? Why do you keep repeating yourself?



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
 
I answered that question on the very first page of your thread. I gave you a link because it expresses my views and it provides Bible verses to back up my view in a concise manner. Since then, I have answered your individual questions past the original explanation, but for some reason you just want me keep repeating myself, like you keep doing. Why do you want me to keep repeating myself? Why do you keep repeating yourself?

You need to pay better attention. The link you provided was for "Why did God choose Israel to be His chosen people?" - Not "Why do Christians believe in a God that has chosen" Jews (or any other group of people)?

I know both sentences contain 'God' and 'chosen' but try to understand the difference.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 


Didn't god "unchoose" the Jews as his chosen people fairly early on in the old Testament? Like Numbers or Leviticus? I've read the story before, as I actually decided to read the hilarious piece of literary fail that is the Bible, but I don't pretend to have it memorized.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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The Christian perspective as outlined in the Canons of Dort 1618

"Article 7: Election

Election is God’s unchangeable purpose by which he did the following:

Before the foundation of the world, by sheer grace, according to the free good pleasure of his will, God chose in Christ to salvation a definite number of particular people out of the entire human race, which had fallen by its own fault from its original innocence into sin and ruin. Those chosen were neither better nor more deserving than the others, but lay with them in the common misery. God did this in Christ, whom he also appointed from eternity to be the mediator, the head of all those chosen, and the foundation of their salvation.

And so God decreed to give to Christ those chosen for salvation, and to call and draw them effectively into Christ’s fellowship through the Word and Spirit. In other words, God decreed to grant them true faith in Christ, to justify them, to sanctify them, and finally, after powerfully preserving them in the fellowship of the Son, to glorify them.

God did all this in order to demonstrate his mercy, to the praise of the riches of God’s glorious grace.

As Scripture says, “God chose us in Christ, before the foundation of the world, so that we should be holy and blameless before him with love; he predestined us whom he adopted as his children through Jesus Christ, in himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, by which he freely made us pleasing to himself in his beloved” (Eph. 1:4-6). And elsewhere, “Those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified, he also glorified” (Rom. 8:30)."



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You are really biased aren't you . First of all the British wanted Israel to fail . They prohibited Israel from receiving any arms . Israel had to manufacture ammunition underground and in total secrecy while Brits patrolled vigorously hunting for signs of Israel trying to arm up . They had two antiquated French cannons to repel an armored tank column that was advancing on them . The first shot hit the lead tank and the Arabs ran .
They beat back the attackers and took ground which is the normal manner in any conflict and kept that ground for a buffer zone in 1948 . After they ran out the British as we the USA did then they started arming up as we did . Britain is an oppressor nation as always . Israel had no help from Britain .



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by SimonPeter
 
Christians have not been their facilitator , God has put them there against all odds ... That upcoming war called Gog and Magog war will draw in the whole world and affect every thing in it .

So why DO Christians believe in this 'God'? I hate to break it to you, by studying the Bible there is no knowledge you can derive about God or the future. Your post certainly did not contain any 'knowledge'.

Some people can never see the truth . You don't want truth , you want your version of truth . Well , the future which scares me as well is not up to peoples consensus vote . We can not decide what our future will be . We can make decisions and deal with the reality of the matter . I have seen people who stick their heads in the dirt or (else where ) and say it isn't so . That is not going to workout well .
The fact is that to the average Christian who is looking at the Bible and the events of today can easily see that the bible is spot on as we get closer to the endtimes . You need to make a move and do it soon . No actually you have already !



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by KaelemJames
 




Abraham, one of the greatest men to have walked earth was a Hebrew, not Jewish

ThinkingHuman question everything! The above is so innacurate...Abraham was from the land of Ur, later settled in Cannan. Ur was thought to be located in Mesopotamia or even Iraq.

The Jehovah "the lofty one" that the Roman created Christianity has you worship was a war mongering god.
Here's a great thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

question everything "you are all gods"



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





The Gnostics were nothing more than the New Agers of today. Always trying to mix pagan worship

The last supper and the messiah rising from the dead are taken from the roman Mithraic tradition. From what I've seen of pagans; they dont actually worship or prostrate themselves as much as christians do





based on mystical experiences brought on by fallen angels and demon contact.

One could argue that the great persecutor Saul suffered such an event on the way to Damascus, and then went around preaching a different message from James (James who was contemporaneously with Jesus)



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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@ ThinkingHuman


You asked – “Another way that I could ask the question is, Why don't Christians refer to themselves as different denominations of Jewish and our 'churches' as synagogues? (with Christ being an extension, an affirmation of the Jewish faith)”

My answer to that question is - Because of secular thinking, political correctness and the Jews themselves. In the book (Jewish Views Of The Afterlife) by Simcha Paull Raphael, he shows the beliefs of the Jews in comparsion between 1952 and 1965. What percent believed in a afterlife in 1952 = Catholics 85%, Protestants 80%, Jews 35% -- What percent believed in a afterlife in 1965 = Catholics 83%, Protestants 78% and Jews 17%. Notice the 100% drop in Jews who disbelieved their own prophets. Just in 13 years. Can you imagine what this is in today's world? You can now understand a little more of what I meant when I said that the Christian Jews and the Christian Gentiles have the same problem. That problem is disbelief.

Now you might say that these are not Christians to begin with but then you look at the comparison of the Catholic and Protestant and you will find a 2% drop. When you analyze this you must consider the percent of what total and then you will also see the Jew might only represent about 2% of the total who were analyzed.
Nevertheless, this one chart shows that a very great amount of people have lost the teachings of that first Christian church of Jerusalem and these stats are from the last stronghold of Christianity to exist at that time.

The governments of this world have systematically destroyed Jewish and Gentile Christianity through science. More than 90 percent of all scientists do not believe in the Christian God and the numbers are growing in that respect each day. Also the bible critics have literally destroyed the meaning of the manuscripts through their own ignorance and teaching others that same ignorance. Most are not scholars or linguists of any sort yet have the influence and money to propagate their ideas and opinions. There is a lot of money to be made in hawking bibles and religion and you must present something new or change in order to sell your product.

The Jews of the holocaust were not asked whether they were Christian or Orthodox. They were simply Jews and all Jews were the same to these barbaric murderers. Reading other accounts of the labor camps will show that Jewish Christians would abuse and kill other Jewish Christians and the same with Gentile Christians. Their rewards were always nothing of freedom or value except a morsel or so of food. It made no difference to most.

With all of that spiel what have i really said? I have said that it matters not one whit of Jew or Gentile when it comes to the greed of profit. All people are basically the same with some exceptions on either side of the isle. Power is money and money is power and it seems that it will always be like that. If one group would concede to another group then some one has to step down from power and money. That is the age old problem.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Astrocyte
 





That idea cannot be "replaced" by another God. This God concept is a capital "G" concept; to differentiate it from the little "g" gods of Greece and elsewhere, all you need do is analyze their capacities: wisdom, love, etc. These are mere concepts that have nothing to do with origin, meaning, moral purpose.


And yet in the OT alone their are 2 distinct "gods" Jehovah the Lofty One and the forgiving "Lord" They both had very different personalities. Their is sufficient evidence that the god "jehovah" that the christians worship inadvertently is non other than "Baal" the phoenician god.



It is therefore unbelievably wrong to say the Christians needed a "new God" when they already had a perfectly universal one from the Jewish religion.




Perhaps Christianity was a logical expansion of the Jewish God idea? Or maybe Judaism was misunderstood by outsiders


No, christianity, or more precisely Pauline Christianity later becoming Roman sanctioned state religion. Sure it has its roots in Judaism. One can also suggest that the reason that the sanhedrin wanted jesus out is that he came to claim his rightful secular throne according to his lineage from David, This is somewhat denied by christians who hold that he speaks of a spriritual kingdom rather than an earthly rule.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight
 


From what did you get that Rome created Christianity . What ever it was you either read it wrong or it is wrong . The Gospel of Jesus is what Christian follow that is called Christianity . The Catholic Church tried to subvert the Gospel to serve their own power hungry aspirations but God made sure that the Gospel was not smothered . And the Christ followers spread the Gospel of Christ from the teachings of the Apostles . There is no telling how many of the letters and Epistles were out there in the world that the Romans could have never confiscated . Scribes made handwritten copies constantly distributing them through out the churches .
At best the Roman Catholics had copies or originals as for the Old Testament and likely the Talmud which is a demonic Jewish book not very different than the Koran which I believe was inspired by it .
The Catholics could only obtain a copy of the Apostles (New Testament ) writings as they did not exist in a compiled book form at the time when they sacked Jerusalem .
The claim that the Vatican changed the Gospel is unlikely.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight
 

The last supper and the messiah rising from the dead are taken from the roman Mithraic tradition.
We don't know enough about the "roman Mithraic tradition" to determine anything like that.

One could argue that the great persecutor Saul suffered such an event on the way to Damascus, and then went around preaching a different message from James (James who was contemporaneously with Jesus)
"One could", but they would ultimately fail, since the book of Acts is not a reliable source to verify either if Paul was a "great persecutor" of if he "suffered an event" on the road to Damascus. Paul in his own writings never mentions such an event, and admits to no greater "persecutions" that making arguments during discussions involving Christians.
Modern biblical scholarship has disproven the supposed variance between Paul and the letter of James, who we are not sure if he was the same James as mentioned in other New Testament books, since that was a very popular name and there is no real provenance on the letter, where it was only assumed at some later date that it was one of the James, either the brother of John, one of the disciples, or James the brother of Jesus, someone who didn't really believe in his own brother being the Messiah while Jesus was still on earth.
edit on 6-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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They only adapted the teachings of Christ that they wanted to while they continued their pagan practices. The two don't mix
reply to post by Deetermined
 


And yet you deny the pagan practices/doctrines of christianity, virgin birth, the communion (eating of the body), resurrection from the dead? How do they mix according to your logic?



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by ChristianJihad



We are all God's people now
reply to post by honested3
 


Except for the billions that are not pf course, myself included, I know I know off to hell with me then.


Your missing the point. The point is it does not matter if your Jewish or non Jewish. In the old testament days it did matter, but non Jews could still be saved through faith in Jesus future sacrifice.

So why did God pick the Jews? Because they are the furthest from deserving to be picked by God. All throughout the Bible, God uses the weak to shame the strong, the fool to shame the wise, and same with the Jew. God shows if He can redeem the Jew, He can redeem us all. I am also ethnically Jewish (Israeli) myself, so dont bash me for what I said. I point this out to show that those Jews who think they are superior to the rest are sorely mistaken, they were not chosen by God for being anything at all superior, but rather inferior, and being the most undeserving, and furthest from God over any others.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

Israel had no help from Britain
You seem to know nothing about Israeli history other than what is on the propaganda handouts at your cult meetings.
You are obviously on the internet, since you seem very active on this forum. You should spend some time on Wikipedia reading up on the history, there is really quite a bit of it on there.
Once you can indicate that you have actually done any research yourself, then we can get into an intelligent discussion on it.



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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how do you know you're not turning to demons when Satan was given the ability to disguise himself as an angel of light when he chooses to?
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Nothing is done in a vacuum, you should ask yourself "why" your omnipotent, omniscient Jehovah-Baal mountain god would allow Satan such power? Is your jehovah conspicuously absent when satan discguises itself...somewhat like in genesis when adam hid from god because of his nakedness?



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





This world belongs to Satan even though we are capable of seeing God's work in it's beauty and design

what a load of "- - - - " After 6000 odd years or millions of years after the Fall (depending on your viewpoint) the degradation of the planet is nowhere near as bad as one would expect under "satans" rule. The planet should be looking a lot worse than Dantes inferno buy now.

You see thats the problem with those that need an adversary to complete their theology. They need a vicarious "outsider" (satan) to personify and detach from themselves their own internal conflicts of good/bad,



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