milky way may have 60 BILLION habitable worlds

reply to post by Badgered1


I love the honesty and outside perspective you've given to this post. I too completely agree with you but I think that humans have something that other races don't have. I can't pinpoint it, but I'm pretty certain that that is why they take an extra interest in our planet and have continued to influence our decisions from as far back as history has been written. There is hope for us.

Originally posted by Ivemetthemonce
reply to post by Badgered1

 

I love the honesty and outside perspective you've given to this post. I too completely agree with you but I think that humans have something that other races don't have. I can't pinpoint it, but I'm pretty certain that that is why they take an extra interest in our planet and have continued to influence our decisions from as far back as history has been written. There is hope for us.

It must also be very exiting for a supernatural highly developed intelligence to follow another intelligence, though we are not as sophisticated as them yet - to observe every aspect, from social behaving, communication, interaction with other species, to wars, spaceexploration and so on.
And yes, if we where in their shoes and did not consider us to be of any threat at al, we would propably also affect them in a certain direction.

All the abduction stuff, where they carve up people, and never return some of them may not be an evil act from their side at all, maybe they are just very curios.
And why worry what they want? i think they allready get what they want, and are not about to harvest or suddently start eating us - i know this is speculation - but if this was the case i think i woud had happened by now.

It would be cool (and slightly frightening) to have official contact of some sort, to know that what we think actually is REAL, and not just assumptions

Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by bbracken677

 

Yeah im not really sure either, I think that its is to do with increase and the decrease of wave lengths, like a police siren will sound different in pitch as it approaches and as it moves further away,

doppler effect

I'm not even sure if light speed was ever an absolute, it was just you can't accelerate an object with mass to light speed ie, an object gains mass as it increases speed. At light speed it gains infinite mass and would require infinite energy propelling it or something.

Then you have the issue that the photons speed and distance traveled is relative to the observer (according to the theory) time stops at light speed, therefore from the photons perspective there is no time difference from going from point a to b, its simultaneous, and no distance is actually traveled, only to an observer has it traveled from point a to b.

That said Einstein had a theory on space-time that at some fundamental level of reality all points in space and time are linked, but my knowledge is only curiosity on this subject and have no real understanding of physics. I think the problem with most theories is they can only truly be expressed in math and something is lost in the translation to language.

edit on 4-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

The reason you get the doppler effect with sound is that as the sound and yourself move towards each other, you have effectively increased the speed at which the sound is approaching you, resulting in a higher pitch.
According to Einstein's theory of relativity if you are traveling at half the speed of light towards a light emitting object, the light as it approaches you, in your perspective, remains at the speed of light, and from a 3rd person observer, the light is also traveling at the speed of light....same effect if you are traveling away from a light emitting object.

The old school problem of 2 trains heading towards each other at 50 mph each are approaching each other at 100 mph doesnt apply to light... If 2 trains are approaching each other and they are each traveling at the speed of light, they are, according to Einstein, still only approaching each other at the speed of light. Otherwise they would be approaching each other at 2x the speed of light.

The reason this is significant is that if you consider the doppler effect as it applies to sound, the sound is actually approaching you at a speed greater than the speed of sound and hence the foreshortening of the wave length, and the higher pitch that results. Since you get the same effect with light, it would appear that the speed of light is NOT constant, at least from that perspective.

But the prickly nature of light is that it is considered to be both a particle as well as a wave...

) ) ) ) ) ) =>
)))))))))

Another way of looking at it:

It took 4.5 billion years for (potentially) space-faring life to emerage on Earth.

If there are 60 billion planets on which life has emerged, bearing in mind many will be younger, some older, than Earth, then we might expect about 15-17 of those planets to have life as advanced or more advance than is found on Earth .....

Life may be common. But for 99.9999% of the time there was life on Earth, it couldn't even pick up a stick .....

reply to post by AndyMayhew


well, it still happened on earth, didn't it now? are you saying this couldn't have been repeated anywhere else given 60 billion chances?

that is highly unlikely.

even in the water you got dolphins and octopi

and there are even birds that use sticks as tools; some even mimic speech...plus there are other primates, you know.

there were various other hominids even

I like to imagine if we had spent all the money we have on weapons of war on conquering the stars we could be there by now cultivating new worlds.Their out there waiting for us,obviously.

To understand the doppler effect when it comes to light, think of photons as golf balls being fired towards you at a certain rate, which is the frequency or 'color' of the photons.

When you accelerate away from the source of the photons, they reach you with a lower frequency, because each successive photon has to travel a bit further than the one before, and the lower frequency is called redshift.

The photons all still travel at the speed of light, but each successive photon has to travel a bit further. No single photon defines the color, only successive photons arriving at a certain rate or 'frequency' define the color of the light.

Originally posted by cass1dy09
There is nothing else out there.

And you definatively know that for sure 100% how?

Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by gortex

 

Cool, I love this stuff. Tnx

I've had a subsequent thought also, perhaps you could have a space ship colony also for lo other purpose but exploration. They would never return, but would allow humans to spread.

edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

Yeah sometime science is stranger than fiction.

edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

they already have something like this in the pipeline, they are called generation ships... and they have even drawn up specs for these ships, how to simulate artificial gravity, and worked out how many people they would need to avoid innbreeding and also how what type of resources they wouldd need and how much including plant life and water to be self sustaining, but strictly no meat, just a vegan and synthesised protein like soy based products as animals in space is not really cost effective (if you know what I mean) as in order to get 1 pound of meat from a cow you have to feed it 10 pounds of green stuff/grain etcetera...... you get my drift? So yes, back to what I was saying, the plans are already in place...
PEACE!!!

Originally posted by reject
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

well, it still happened on earth, didn't it now? are you saying this couldn't have been repeated anywhere else given 60 billion chances?

As I say, I think life is common

But if all those other 60 billion worlds are just 100 years younger than Earth, and if it takes as long for a space-faring race to emerge on them as it did on Earth, then there are no space-faring races. Yet.

Of course, the emergence of a space faring race on Earth may have been slow. Or it may have been quick ...... We don't know. But of all the millions of species that have existed on Earth - most now extinct - only one has gone into space. Which suggests humans are the exception, not the rule.

Originally posted by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by reject
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

well, it still happened on earth, didn't it now? are you saying this couldn't have been repeated anywhere else given 60 billion chances?

As I say, I think life is common

But if all those other 60 billion worlds are just 100 years younger than Earth, and if it takes as long for a space-faring race to emerge on them as it did on Earth, then there are no space-faring races. Yet.

Of course, the emergence of a space faring race on Earth may have been slow. Or it may have been quick ...... We don't know. But of all the millions of species that have existed on Earth - most now extinct - only one has gone into space. Which suggests humans are the exception, not the rule.

We could be way, WAY behind in the terms of technological evolution, as over the course of the Earths history, we have had a few mass extinctions and a few bottlenecks specifically in human evolution, where due to disease and what-not, we have been whittled down to just a few thousand individuals, and who knows how much inbreeding went on because of such few numbers that might have retarded/slown down our intelligence/evolution. In the grand scheme of things we could be the proverbial tortoise compared to the proverbial hare, when it comes to evoution in every area, but just like thhe tortoise, we will get there eventually.... as the moral of the moral of the story shows, slow and steady wins the race!!
PEACE!!

Does not surprise me at all

reply to post by AndyMayhew

that is still extremely improbable.

there is just no way life on our earth is the older one among ALL those 60 BILLION EARTHS...and there is simply no way that a technological species that you describe as an "exception" ON OUR EARTH can not happen anywhere else given 60 BILLION EARTHS

this simply does not stand to logic

I bet there are tons of planets that have intelligent life on them. We just have not found any besides earth. But we will one day soon.

We will ..but we won't be able to prove that life is there!
How can we?

Originally posted by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by reject
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

well, it still happened on earth, didn't it now? are you saying this couldn't have been repeated anywhere else given 60 billion chances?

As I say, I think life is common

But if all those other 60 billion worlds are just 100 years younger than Earth, and if it takes as long for a space-faring race to emerge on them as it did on Earth, then there are no space-faring races. Yet.

Of course, the emergence of a space faring race on Earth may have been slow. Or it may have been quick ...... We don't know. But of all the millions of species that have existed on Earth - most now extinct - only one has gone into space. Which suggests humans are the exception, not the rule.

Don't understand your logic here..
Please explain to me

Originally posted by wemadetheworld
To understand the doppler effect when it comes to light, think of photons as golf balls being fired towards you at a certain rate, which is the frequency or 'color' of the photons.

When you accelerate away from the source of the photons, they reach you with a lower frequency, because each successive photon has to travel a bit further than the one before, and the lower frequency is called redshift.

The photons all still travel at the speed of light, but each successive photon has to travel a bit further. No single photon defines the color, only successive photons arriving at a certain rate or 'frequency' define the color of the light.

edit on 4-7-2013 by wemadetheworld because:

I totally understand what you are saying, but consider this: if you are moving away at a significant portion of the speed of light, and the photons are, relative to yourself, traveling at the speed of light anyway/still.....then they should arrive at the same periodicity. The only time you get changes in the periodicity (with a particle) or changes in frequency (wave patterns) is if the rate of relative speed has been altered.



For example...if you are sitting still, relative to the light source, and you are receiving particles at 1 per second (to make the math simpler) if you suddenly start moving away, but the particles are, relative to yourself, traveling at the same speed, they will continue to arrive at one per second.

It is only if the relative speed of light (relative to yourself) changes that the periodicity would change...ie, if the particles are moving at the speed of light, and then you begin to move away at 1/2 the speed of light, and the relative aspects change (the speed, relative to yourself is halved) then the periodicity would become halved, or the periodicity would become 1 every 2 seconds.
This matches exactly the doppler effect we see with light, as well as sound. In the case of sound, the pitch (frequency) is altered and in the case of light the color changes (frequency of light).

according to John Lear, there's life on every planet and moon in our solar system...

reply to post by Ectoplasm8

What if this planet can't produce more than 1 human-level intelligence? You know that intelligence isn't cheap. Evolution had to work for 2 billion years PLUS to produce humans. Once humans gained dominion over the planet, a fierce battle to be sure, we became king and now seven billion people sit on the throne reigning over earth. We possess the (nuclear) power to completely annihilate the surface life on earth. The point is that on the journey to this point ONE species conquered, not two or three or four. The idea I'm offering to you is that this planet can't afford to produce more than one or two human-intelligent species. We stand on the remains of countless dead species and on the backs of inferior species. Every rock and bush and bacterium and so on is a factor in our success. So take any suitable planet in our galaxy where life has taken root and the odds are that, among the millions (billions?) of species it produces, it will produce one or two dominant intelligent species.

It's an intelligence pyramid, with humans at hte top. Only a few can be at the top. We're not rare because of probability, we're rare because of resource limits in space/time.

It's portentous to look at dolphins or monkeys or even birds or bugs or pigs or bacteria and say that our superior intelligence is somehow separate and special from all the others. All you have to do is step back and see the pyramid and realize our "superiority" is not spontaneous or inexplicable. It's instead part of a long evolutionary process that has resulted in the production of intelligence.

It's conservation of energy expressed in evolution of intelligence.

The fact that Venus, Earth, Mars and now Titan all show signs of earth-like conditions either now or in the past is a huge hint to me that earth-like conditions are not apparently rare. How many moons and planets do you think there're out there? I'd say QUITE A FEW. I have no idea about the odds of life originating on a comet or a dwarf planet or a rogue planet or in the atmosphere of a gas giant. I do know that we've only (somewhat) reliably checked Mars for life. I do not think we've sent a life detecting instrument to the moon. So our survey of life in the cosmos, in sum total, amounts to 1 other planet. Is not impressive to me. We're, in the grand scheme of things, not on the radar. (You might argue we checked the moon rocks we brought back for life, but at that point, you're grabbing for straws. It's a complete waste of time. Our list of samples is too small to make any conclusion.)

reply to post by jonnywhite


I agree with you, that on earth there are no room for other intelligent species to evolve to the state we are at.
And yes there are other candidates to superior intelligence if we where not here - would be a looong project though

And we are not able to speed up the process at all, when we are not able to communicate with them or take any interest in doin so. And we would also have huge interest in them to have equal social behavior that we would be able to relate to in order to interact possitively with them, that dosnt seem likely to be possible with any specie on earth.

Just think for a moment that we found out that we are able to possetively communicate with a chimp specie, and talk to them and they talk back to us - what would the consequenses be? would we allow them to evolve into a equal specie as oursevles? woud we give them equal human rights?

Would an ET presense look at us in same context the way we look at other species on earth?