People taking your picture with their phone

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by cuopar

 

Its just creepy.

Why would someone do that?

Apparently it does not bother you too much, or you would either report it to someone or you would just
ask him why and tell him to stop doing it !!!

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


There doesn't need to be a reason.

Photography is not a crime, regardless of who is being photographed, or what they are doing.

More than likely, it has something to do with how you carry yourself at the library, the kinds of material you read, or the commentary you make.

Something about what you do is either interesting, or odd, and this person has noticed you doing it numerous times, and is now cataloging it.

If you don't like what they're doing, go mention it to a librarian, or move to a different computer/table. If they start following you, then you'll know they're up to something more than simple shenanigans. At that point, seek some kind of legal aid in dealing with it, like calling the non-emergency number.


~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


ok

I have to start recording some of this stuff.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe
If you are repeatedly photographing someone without their consent, especially if they aren’t an adult, your darn right it can be considered a crime... Stalking for starters.

reply to post by defcon5


Not true.

As long as the property is not posted as privately owned, and does not contain posted disclaimers warning against photography, then it is considered fully within your legal rights to photograph anyone who is there, regardless of what they are doing. Even the photographing of children is 100% legal, so long as they are present in a public place, and there are no posted signs prohibiting photography.

Photography is included under the freedom of expression and of the press, found in the first amendment of the United States Constitution.

You can photograph children, public officials, police, strangers, whomever you want, so long as there are no signs posted stating that photography is prohibited. Even if you are approached by security, you have the right to request the stated documentation prohibiting photography.

Edit to add: obviously, if the owners do produce legal documentation that prohibits taking pictures, then yes, you do need to yield. But, sidewalks, parks, beaches, stores, etc., are all considered public areas, and as such you have no right to privacy when you're there. Even a photographer standing on public property (sidewalks, roads, etc) can photograph private property and its occupants legally.

There are a lot of misleading statements concerning photography out there, mainly because of the power it gives the people over their elected representatives. My best friend got his degree in photography though, and his professors provided a manual outlining what is, and isn't legal, concerning taking pictures. Its some eye-opening stuff, since many elected officials even fail to recognize what is and isn't legal concerning cameras.

Second Edit: The Ten Legal Commandments of Photography, as found in various manuals and websites, like this convenient one: Photography and the Law

I. Anyone in a public place can take pictures of anything they want. Public places include parks, sidewalks, malls, etc. Malls? Yeah. Even though it’s technically private property, being open to the public makes it public space.

II. If you are on public property, you can take pictures of private property. If a building, for example, is visible from the sidewalk, it’s fair game.

III. If you are on private property and are asked not to take pictures, you are obligated to honor that request. This includes posted signs.

IV. Sensitive government buildings (military bases, nuclear facilities) can prohibit photography if it is deemed a threat to national security.

V. People can be photographed if they are in public (without their consent) unless they have secluded themselves and can expect a reasonable degree of privacy. Kids swimming in a fountain? Okay. Somebody entering their PIN at the ATM? Not okay.

VI. The following can almost always be photographed from public places, despite popular opinion:

accident & fire scenes, criminal activities
bridges & other infrastructure, transportation facilities (i.e. airports)
industrial facilities, Superfund sites
public utilities, residential & commercial buildings
children, celebrities, law enforcement officers
UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, Chuck Norris

VII. Although “security” is often given as the reason somebody doesn’t want you to take photos, it’s rarely valid. Taking a photo of a publicly visible subject does not constitute terrorism, nor does it infringe on a company’s trade secrets.

VIII. If you are challenged, you do not have to explain why you are taking pictures, nor to you have to disclose your identity (except in some cases when questioned by a law enforcement officer.)

IX. Private parties have very limited rights to detain you against your will, and can be subject to legal action if they harass you.

X. If someone tries to confiscate your camera and/or film, you don’t have to give it to them. If they take it by force or threaten you, they can be liable for things like theft and coercion. Even law enforcement officers need a court order.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman



My Advise...

Next time get up and strike a wonderful pose for him !

lol

& I'm not being a smarty... I honestly think it might make them back off...ya know... get the hint that you aren't liking it

leolady

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


oh ok.

So it is legal to do that.

Ask the person to stop, and notify a staff member. Repeatedly doing this can constitute harassment.

Next time take out your camera phone and take a picture of him taking a picture of you.

Last year while I was still working my retail job a pos came in and was harrassing a woman and her young child because apparently she bumped into him. She barely spoke a word of english and this guy was a big dude I told him to leave her alone. He then took out a camera and took my picture and said now you'll get it b...h, I smiled for my pic then took out my camera and proceeded to take his picture... which made him leave quickly.... total douchebag. He did it for intimidation...I didn't allow myself to be initmidated you shouldn't either.

I dont believe it's a government agent watching you, they I imagine would be more circumspect about it and you most likely wouldn't even know. This person sounds like a jerk who is trying to see how far he can get away with things. Smile and take his picture too. Don't fight him and get arrested over it, don't let it get to you too much. Just return the favor as peaceably as possible. If he still continues ask your local law enforcement phone number not a direct 911 and see what if anything he can be charged with. Get his name and info if possible and see if he can be charged with harrassment.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe
The pertinent parts in a nutshell:

(a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.

(2) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

You keep taking pictures of someone without their permission, they will file a stalking charge against you.

You also need to know if the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. For example, you cannot take photos in a bathroom, regardless of whether its a public bathroom or on private property.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

Have you talked to him?how did you know he has an out of state ID and that he supposedly drives cross country?

reply to post by defcon5


See the note on "security" in point VII.

VII. Although “security” is often given as the reason somebody doesn’t want you to take photos, it’s rarely valid. Taking a photo of a publicly visible subject does not constitute terrorism, nor does it infringe on a company’s trade secrets.

It is not harassment to have your photo taken, unless it is done in an obviously threatening manner, or used for illegal purposes. If the OP is visible in a public location, then they have no expectation of privacy. Behind a computer, at a table, or out in the open do not constitute an expectation of privacy.

Obviously you cannot go into a bathroom, or some obviously private place. Which is also covered in the 10 rules of thumb:

V. People can be photographed if they are in public (without their consent) unless they have secluded themselves and can expect a reasonable degree of privacy. Kids swimming in a fountain? Okay. Somebody entering their PIN at the ATM? Not okay.

So no, what is happening to the OP is not illegal. Inconvenient, and annoying: sure. But illegal, no.


~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Legal, yes.

But you can certainly approach this person directly and ask them why they are doing it. They have no obligation to answer you, but, such confrontation can often push someone to stop, if they don't have a legitimate reason for doing it.

As I, and others, have also pointed out, you can also ask one of the employees to approach the individual and ask them to stop, or leave. The property owner can do that, whereas you cannot.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


here's the thing, though: doing something that is completely legal can still be considered harassment. It is not illegal to yell at someone.

Try following a stranger around for days yelling at them, and see what happens.

Once a person requests you stop doing an activity that is blatantly aimed toward them, they begin to build grounds for a harassment case.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


This sounds like the start of the 'Cluedo' horror movie. Secret Agent in the library with a cellphone......

reply to post by Wandering Scribe
If its done repeatedly and causes emotional distress to the person, you're going to have a legal battle on your hands.

In the case of the OP, since it appears that this person is showing “stalkerish” behavior, (s)he would have a pretty good case. Because of the number of times in the past that this type of activity has ended up being predatory behavior, you can bet the police would take it seriously.

reply to post by defcon5

If its done repeatedly and causes emotional distress to the person, you're going to have a legal battle on your hands.

How many times can you count when the paparazzi were charged with being predators for taking photographs constantly of celebrities?

Or, consider the work of Normal Bob Smith, who actively films and takes pictures of complete strangers, again and again, at Union Square. (I'm not sure if all the content on his website abides by ATS terms and conditions, so I'm not linking to him, but you can Google "Normal Bob Smith Amazing Strangers" to see some of his stuff).

This is the same situation.

Admittedly, one can easily read something predatory in nature into it, but, then you're making unfounded guesses. The photographer, in turn, could file a claim against the OP for defamation of character, should it turn out he has no actual predatory intentions.

As for police involvement, of course they'd take it seriously.

Law enforcement, because they're often unaware of photography laws, absolutely love to try and take away the right for citizens to take pictures. It doesn't mean that law enforcement is always right though.

The best approach for the OP to take would be, as you suggested earlier, for him to call non-emergency, or for him to approach an employee of the building and get the owner to take note. As a guest in the facility, the owner is expected to protect his customers/visitors, and if OP feels threatened, then the owner is responsible for seeing whether OP's fears are grounded or not.


~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by yourmaker
Take pictures of him too then.

And post them here in this thread.

Be sure to give the guy a link to the thread.

Maybe he WANTS to be famous...

reply to post by Murgatroid


Maybe he's a member here and will come across his picture and explain his actions. Just throwing it out there haha

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

I would put a stop to that ASAP...