The end of religion

reply to post by Dragonfly79

If you want to instill doubt in my mind you have to do better than that and respond to the content. I can't take 2 words seriously, you'd have to spell out your opinion to me for there to be something you and I can discuss.

I asked you if they are all educated guesses, all of them because you said this

But not like they have taken all kinds of scans of the brain and compared it to known cases because knowledge and technology isn't that advanced yet. They are all educated guesses based on observations.

Sorry knowledge and technology is that advanced and a number of cases would have had all possible scans and comparisons made if the one requiring the treatment has the money.

It might be an educated guess when there is no knowledge or data to verify but that would be something new and undiscovered then the educated guess will be hypothesizing for a new treatment or newly discovered sickness.

I don't know where you are from but surely you must have seen children. You know those little people, come on.

funny.

Again with these games,

You posted this in reply to me posting that not all psychological issues require taking of prescribed drugs

True but then why don't kids at school get taught instead of having to correct one later in life through therapy?

OK, so your saying kids don't get taught psychology at school, which is why I asked what kids.

Taught all the things I had to find out for myself later in life when the damage was almost done. Just having psychology as a course for example would help a lot. I am from a western country, but I do miss a lot of things which are valuable in life, just as valuable as learning math and calculate.

I learned psychology when I was at school, so that's not an excuse, I am from a western country as well.

What kids are you talking about, be a little specific, what age group are insinuating?

Well psychiatry does,

This is your reply to what i posted as obviously went straight over your head.

Your last sentence in a reply to me was

Or unless you were found guilty of harming yourself or others which you don't need to reply to and nobody needs to know.

Now I underlined what I replied to because it sounded very strange to me.

How can I be found guilty of harming myself? this makes no sense. I would be found guilty if I made the accusation and judgement myself, not psychiatry.

If you had read my posts you would know where I get these assumptions from, so when I see you have done that I'll respond to your questions but otherwise I can't waste my time like that.

I have to read your posts to know where you get your assumptions about me

The assumption that I get pushed around, that I am a patient, or that I committed a crime of injury to another.

reply to post by tovenar

Originally posted by tovenar
The planet as a whole is becoming more religious, not less. And since 2003, the predominant religion among them all is Christianity, with fully 30% of all humans claiming to be of that faith now; pulling away from Islam in 2nd place.

I think these theories about the illuminati being devil-worshipers helped scare people to stay in the "faith" or to convert some.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

or that I committed a crime of injury to another.

I didn't say the latter but you do strike me as a patient or someone who would want to have that option or maybe work in the sector. You probably misread something, or I might have referred incorrectly as English is not my native language. What I meant with being pushed around, is in response to you stating you can be labeled easily. People can label me all they want but I'll never accept that, it just appeared to me as if you would allow yourself to be labeled and accept that and go along with that in case anyone ever did diagnose you of some mental illness.

Before I had actual experience with psychiatry as a possible patient, I thought it was a scientific movement, they wouldn't just make conclusions and state something as fact based on nothing or just the opinion of my parents who thought I was crazy to believe, to have faith. I also thought it was a movement which genuinely cared for my health.

In the real world however, scans cost money and so do hours long of therapy and diagnosing. It's just much easier, faster and cheaper to point at a DSM description and prescribe medication. Everything happening to me which left me scarred for life happened in maybe 10 hours altogether. Before my ordeal I thought/imagined it would take weeks or many hours of many psychiatrists and many interviews before reaching such a verdict about my case. They have power which can be easily abused without anyone ever needing to check. Once diagnosed, who is going to listen? Nobody would want to go against the word of psychiatrists. And against who should it be refuted to? Psychiatrists themselves, judges, other people of noteworthy intelligence?

It would be an unfair fight anyway, people from university against those who followed a simple education (even though I have studied through internet for years). Having to refute psychiatric theories, while not even getting paid to do so.

How can I be found guilty of harming myself?

I was referring to statistics, as in people with certain mental illnesses have a higher chance to do so. It's not about you btw., I'm only trying to be polite to you even though you behave rude like insinuating I don't know what I'm talking about in an effort to conform me.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
That felt familiar. I have to agree, i was "convincing" and released being no threat to myself or others.
For me its a give and take situation. I pick who and when i give a piece of my mind. Handling the blood rush is the key. Not to be to complacent but not to be to forceful i think.

You have to be convincing because that is all psychiatrists have going for them. They don't know the truth, it's what each of us make of it. They can make anyone look bad (in public opinion) who has said anything religious or about the immaterial. That's one of the reasons it's so popular.

For example, suppose at some workplace there was this guy who was very productive and the manager saw this and wondered why is this guy more productive and how can I get others to be more like him? Then the coworkers begin to notice the manager demanding more after this guy joined and they slowly exclude him from the group by little things at first. Then they tell eachother he might be gay, or he's got ADHD and that is why he appears so busy and this catches on and people exclude him even more up to the point he notices and begins to feel depressed knowing it's going to be like that everyday and he skips work and gets fired and goes into a deeper depression until he got his medication.

I've always known only I myself can truly know myself. No one else can look into my mind or soul but myself to know what's going on in there. It's not easy to let go of as most people want to believe others can know what is going on inside.

Some would want to make me believe that they can so much they tell me how I should behave and respond, not explicitly but very subtly through the use of words, body language, playing with the unwritten rules in society and as others have pointed out and in which psychiatrists are probably the best or where those can be found who have perfected the expression of how 'you' were in the right group leading to happiness but were just put outside this group. They first let you believe they not only have an image of you in their mind but it is a good one and it is part of their own group where everyone you like is too. Then they make you believe you are somewhere else, even though physically you are standing in front of eachother and both have their own reality in their own brains.

And then you have the long walk back home or conquering this perfect place now taken by scientists or the group of people who are right otherwise it isn't real. But if you do, rewards are great, just as long as you don't let anyone know but let them find out themselves what you did in your mind.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by tovenar

 

Originally posted by tovenar
The planet as a whole is becoming more religious, not less. And since 2003, the predominant religion among them all is Christianity, with fully 30% of all humans claiming to be of that faith now; pulling away from Islam in 2nd place.

I think these theories about the illuminati being devil-worshipers helped scare people to stay in the "faith" or to convert some.

Or it might have an adverse reaction, like saying bankers are illuminat but then later in life one meets a banker and finds out he or she is just like anyone, questioning not only those who invented the illuminati but also faith as they are tied together by then.

I'm still hoping science will invent theories and create devices to learn more about the immaterial, leading up to devices which deal with the afterlife, before religion is gone. Or someone showing great faith convincingly and teaching others how to be happy, not necessarily by having millions because of some book or having to be in a monastery to achieve and hold it.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by Fishlover02
I don't think psychiatry will wipe out religion single-handedly, yet. Most of the world has some sect of faith other then atheism, though it is growing, it won't become a dominant force to the point where religion, whether Christianity, Islam, etc etc is wiped out by outlawing it. I can see it narrowing down the faithful's numbers in general, however. Those that have weak faith are easily talked out of their faith to other faiths and atheism by their peers, the media and the world around them. I've witnessed countless friends at my school (A Catholic Secondary school, btw.) lose their faith by means of the prevalent atheists that also attend the school, as they had weak faith. People, at least the Catholics in my region (I can't speak for all the faithful, some are very... strong willed.) generally don't defend their faith, and are more susceptible to the world surrounding them that is anti religious. This instance does give lee-way fro other religions to expand and grow if they are more aggressive (for lack of better terms) about spreading their version of the truth and faith.

I see this happening too, people appearing to lose arguments because the other uses arguments said to be scientific as if everything in science is true while there are so many things not scientific about psychiatry and even in physics there are many theories which have yet to be proven. It's easy to see those discussions, the other trying to make believe there is only one reality and if you disagree then you are not in it and so you are excluded from the group which is in that reality. Or you are in it but have to play the role of the nut or idiot until you accept the others' version as more true.

It's not so much people always have weak faith but at times it's best to keep one's mouth shut about what one believes or risk getting cast out of the group for life or being picked on for having different ideas. It should be a warning sign there of growing intolerance in society when it's better people keep silent about their religion, or even hide it from others.

edit on 1/7/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

That is true, but in their specific case, these Catholics whom I know are Catholics are essentially denying their faith, and as Matthew 10:32-33 says ``32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.``... Just for this specific example

Originally posted by wildtimes
OP, you sound like an angry person.

The ONE thing you said that was correct was that psychology and psychiatry are disciplines that require YEARS OF STUDY to comprehend and practice appropriately.

The DSM is not "the Bible for psych practitioners" - it is a tool used for BILLING PURPOSES. You don't have the slightest idea what you are ranting about.

I think it's only fair to respond again because you do have a point. My anger is just a phase and has almost subsided, I bet you would have asked being a concerned person so it's only fair to let you know of how long this phase is exactly or some indication instead of making it a lifelong sentence like I suggested in a previous post. Without being too serious about it too, I have my funny moments too because of the ridiculousness over my own thoughts.

My point is religion has been the ultimate final endboss of all that is true, then science came along and became more powerful until it almost became the endboss but lost because they couldn't get their points across and never can unless or until homosexuality has been declared something negative. They did so once but lost and had to change that so now we have a spiritual authority because judges listen and weigh the opinions of psychiatrists who do not say red and blue cannot become purple, as in males are like blue and females like red and together only they have the potential to create true love. So the argument blue and blue can also produce purple and so people don't need the feminin (or need to listen) becomes prevalent in an already male dominated society (or appears to be, might as well be the males have too less attention to what females are saying or females are not too convincing themselves).

Which is why I thought it's a bad thing if religion would lose out but now I have reconsidered and even though I cannot regard psychiatry as completely true (which is what it must be in order for me to consider it science or scientific observations) and only a set of beliefs, opinions just as religion. People listen to Freud and Blueler instead of Jesus, that's fine I can live with that, that only concerns one end destination. As long as judges would also listen to Jesus and consider a belief based on it being around for a long time, or whatever the dominant religious authority is but that's another problem.

And to reiterate a previous point

You were arrested by request of your own family, and had to talk to 'psychiatrists' that you didn't trust.

Some people would really abuse the police or other government services if that is what it takes for their children to conform to their truths, which I can't because of what I believe in. Sure I could let it all go and stop caring altogether but that is just not my choice, just as someone else chooses not to let go of their truths and insist I need medication because that is what they would need in my position or they might have stress knowing psychos live next door and refuse to take medication for that anxiety and imagined fears themselves or some other nonvalid reason.

Just watch the evangelists on TV these days. Most of them preach the feel-good psychiatry rather than hellfire and brimstone.

Good riddance to religion anyways. Seek spirituality. Not mind control.