The end of religion

I see this happening too, people appearing to lose arguments because the other uses arguments said to be scientific as if everything in science is true while there are so many things not scientific about psychiatry and even in physics there are many theories which have yet to be proven. It's easy to see those discussions, the other trying to make believe there is only one reality and if you disagree then you are not in it and so you are excluded from the group which is in that reality. Or you are in it but have to play the role of the nut or idiot until you accept the others' version as more true.

It's not so much people always have weak faith but at times it's best to keep one's mouth shut about what one believes or risk getting cast out of the group for life or being picked on for having different ideas. It should be a warning sign there of growing intolerance in society when it's better people keep silent about their religion, or even hide it from others.
That`s also another major factor, and personally, I see it as being kind of sad, as those which they`re trying to fit in with really are going no where in life, are over-all a bad influence, and will be those working minimum wage at the corner gas station when they`re 40. I know that may sound harsh, but it`s the reality for them IMHO.

The planet as a whole is becoming more religious, not less. And since 2003, the predominant religion among them all is Christianity, with fully 30% of all humans claiming to be of that faith now; pulling away from Islam in 2nd place.

Just at the moment when Western European culture is giving up religion, most other cultures are importing it wholesale. They are also copying the specifically American-style free marketplace of ideas, with no one official religion, and no government support of one faith against another. The Economist ran a series on in about 5 years ago, and published some of their articles in an anthology on the topic.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


Thank you D3 for that eye opening response. I agree 100% in a way.

None of us really knows what is there after that certain death. The gods of old are just a collection of superstition that we think we know. All accounts of a God are always told by a mortal man. In the end, we have zero clue on what we know.

But being a person who has seen a ghost first hand and tried to converse with it thinking it was my son, I truly have no idea what our afterlife has in store for us. I do understand that their is an afterlife. How we approach this topic will make or break us.

I currently embrace the teachings of Jesus - He only wanted people to believe in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth through their actions. He was against established religions and their perversed actions. He believed that the ultimate sinner was the one worthy of hearing his teachings. He never told people to give to the temple, He wanted people to give to people. He shunned the old ways and He showed it through his actions.

The end of 'commercialized' religion may be at hand, but true love for one another won't be. That Jesus guy laid the groundwork, it is up to us to follow suit.

You are free to make your mark, you are also free to die quietly. You won't be judged, unless your intentions are malicious in nature. Your light in this life is your alone to make.

-My thoughts on this subject. Booze may or may not have been factors in my response.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

I'm not too sure, I'm thinking without religion which has always been there people don't know what they've got until it's gone. Nobody imagining heaven anymore and telling others about it instead the idea there is nothing beyond this life seems less appealing to me.

What if people just identified with their own figure head and treated it as if it were both themselves and the spirit as the same awareness. Sort of like everyone's own icon to identify with.
I cant see why everyone cant all play together wherever the universe takes us.

OP, you sound like an angry person.

The ONE thing you said that was correct was that psychology and psychiatry are disciplines that require YEARS OF STUDY to comprehend and practice appropriately.

You were arrested by request of your own family, and had to talk to 'psychiatrists' that you didn't trust.

The DSM is not "the Bible for psych practitioners" - it is a tool used for BILLING PURPOSES. You don't have the slightest idea what you are ranting about.

Originally posted by TheomExperience

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

I'm not too sure, I'm thinking without religion which has always been there people don't know what they've got until it's gone. Nobody imagining heaven anymore and telling others about it instead the idea there is nothing beyond this life seems less appealing to me.

What if people just identified with their own figure head and treated it as if it were both themselves and the spirit as the same awareness. Sort of like everyone's own icon to identify with.
I cant see why everyone cant all play together wherever the universe takes us.

There are so many reasons. For one, there are multiple games but each has one favorite. Then there are the scoreboards, if someone makes a point in one game this doesn't mean it's a point in another game and then you get different scores and this makes it difficult to see who has some truth and who doesn't when you try to calculate a sum of someone's truths.

Why would anyone want to be sure something is true is something evolutionary, if there is some better way to do the same then that should become leading for everyone as we are all human beings even if we perceive eachother as different due to cultures/history etc.

But as it is there are different scores and translating everything would mean having one single game which some people just don't like as we would all become the same and then you can't say someone is more suited for the task and deserves a higher paycheck, for example.

Originally posted by wildtimes
OP, you sound like an angry person.

It almost sounds like you would want to suggest I'm angry all the time while it was just a moment, a reaction to something which I chose to vent this way. Anger is a normal human emotion, it's there for a reason namely when borders are crossed. Which I know I'm crossing myself for contemplating certain thoughts but sometimes I would like to share.

The ONE thing you said that was correct was that psychology and psychiatry are disciplines that require YEARS OF STUDY to comprehend and practice appropriately.

You were arrested by request of your own family, and had to talk to 'psychiatrists' that you didn't trust.

The DSM is not "the Bible for psych practitioners" - it is a tool used for BILLING PURPOSES. You don't have the slightest idea what you are ranting about.

Trying to make me doubt myself and my own truths which I've worked on for years so I would place myself in the position of someone who doesn't have much of a clue, so I should listen to psychiatrists and do as they say right?

I don't see my family much anymore, they were wrong and I am right, it showed me psychiatric ideas made them believe I would become a criminal someday and they acted upon that, doing me wrong in the process.

Basically they slandered me by accusing me of going to do evil things. It's funny because the same movement says fortune tellers are conartists yet psychiatrists themselves have no problems predicting the future and presenting it as fact, no petscan or any other biological evidence needed. Although I did had a brainscan at the time for possible tumors luckily none were found. Why those scans weren't used to convince me I was mentally ill, like comparing them to known cases and showing me that of which I know I would have reconsidered, probably because there were no similarities.

Originally posted by Fishlover02
It's easy to see those discussions, the other trying to make believe there is only one reality and if you disagree then you are not in it and so you are excluded from the group which is in that reality. Or you are in it but have to play the role of the nut or idiot until you accept the others' version as more true.

That's exactly one of my biggest problems right now. I'm sure this is one of the oldest tricks in the book to manipulate people. It just appears to me in the past there were more groups in which all members tolerated eachother and individual truths while today if one doesn't conform one is excluded. Which isn't bad because who would want to belong to such a group but it is difficult having to acknowledge yourself all the time instead of acknowledging yourself and have others acknowledge you too. This makes it impossible to ever return to such a group since the other will always be more convinced of their own version and trying to teach them tolerance for other peoples' truths is impossible as they won't listen to the idiot.

That`s also another major factor, and personally, I see it as being kind of sad, as those which they`re trying to fit in with really are going no where in life, are over-all a bad influence, and will be those working minimum wage at the corner gas station when they`re 40. I know that may sound harsh, but it`s the reality for them IMHO.

At the same time, not everyone can become a CEO, it could happen ofcourse theoretically everyone becomes their own leader and multispecialized, but its' unlikely and the current system means you have to play along with the idea people are different and that is why there are specializations which have different wages.

Those at the corner gas station might be simple people (in that they might know the same things but don't have the proper expression for it) or they might be people who know everyone is equal in potential but to make it to the top one has to become predator like and they don't feel it's worth it. They could study and learn and many do and get different jobs but if you are happy why should one change, some people just feel genuinely content that way without lying to themselves.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


The rules can be changed just like the game but until there is a better understanding of why we are all doing this, it appears like a high element of suffering all the way with enforced rules and capitalistic ideas.
There would likely be suffering without these too but i think it would force people to stand up to their potential.

Originally posted by ChuckNastyThe end of 'commercialized' religion may be at hand, but true love for one another won't be. That Jesus guy laid the groundwork, it is up to us to follow suit.

You are free to make your mark, you are also free to die quietly. You won't be judged, unless your intentions are malicious in nature. Your light in this life is your alone to make.

-My thoughts on this subject. Booze may or may not have been factors in my response.

I'm convinced true love will never disappear but you have to be careful these days because some people can mimic it perfectly so I would interpret it as such only later to find out it couldn't be true love. I'm still recovering as I'm typing this my mind asks whether or not I should clarify that true love as something non-sexual which only shows how I let myself associate it with lust and how that association grew because I left it unchecked at the time. I'm sure if I had a teacher at the time like you have Jesus that wouldn't have happened like it did.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

The rules can be changed just like the game but until there is a better understanding of why we are all doing this, it appears like a high element of suffering all the way with enforced rules and capitalistic ideas.
There would likely be suffering without these too but i think it would force people to stand up to their potential.

You can change the rules for yourself but then you have to make everyone playing that game accept that change and not everyone is willing to do so.

Otherwise you would just be playing your own game by yourself. Which is easy for anyone in any group to make fun of, afterall it's like you are pleasuring yourself and we all know there should be two for that to make it worth anything. Which I agree is all wrong but there is something to it.

Above is only possible without any contact with society ofcourse, becoming a hermit. For most people if you play your game within a larger game then you have to translate/interpret two games, which costs double the time and makes one appear slower and less intelligent. Also there is the ethical aspect of hiding something from others and never able to truly be your self as you see yourself. And if you do you'll see all the others playing two games and then you have to make a 3rd game and this can go on forever.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

You can change the rules for yourself but then you have to make everyone playing that game accept that change and not everyone is willing to do so.

Otherwise you would just be playing your own game by yourself. Which is easy for anyone in any group to make fun of, afterall it's like you are pleasuring yourself and we all know there should be two for that to make it worth anything. Which I agree is all wrong but there is something to it.

I did "rub one out" earlier and it felt pretty good. That was me trying to be funny but it is true.

Above is only possible without any contact with society ofcourse, becoming a hermit. For most people if you play your game within a larger game then you have to translate/interpret two games, which costs double the time and makes one appear slower and less intelligent. Also there is the ethical aspect of hiding something from others and never able to truly be your self as you see yourself. And if you do you'll see all the others playing two games and then you have to make a 3rd game and this can go on forever.

edit on 3/7/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

I used to be concerned with the ethical side to "hiding things" myself, however the mind can be easily guided, so its not really hiding anything more like its not being noticed by the unaware.
There can be many games played at once where the non tangible rules become complicated to navigate but there is no reason that it all cant be respected somehow.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
I did "rub one out" earlier and it felt pretty good. That was me trying to be funny but it is true.

Not sure if I get what you are saying but the problem with rubbing something out is like when you know something is a lie then you remember it as such so next time you can easily recognize it. But if you erase that lie completely from your worldview then you have to identify it each time you are confronted with it again. Otherwise it isn't completely gone and it has some effect on the psyche.

And that is where things get tricky and all metaphysical because you have a lie in your programming except it's not active (compared to some truth which is active), it's there as a reminder but it will somehow express itself in your own expression and some people can see this but can't know for sure whether or not you consider it a lie.

It's like having Mein Kampf in your library and someone comes along and checks out your library to see what kind of person you are and believes you believe in what is in the book, while you chose to have it in your library as a reminder of evil. If that person knew you are a member of some antinazi game that person would know you own that book for the right reasons, but if you are playing some obscure game nobody knows about then that person might consider you a nazi and tell everyone about it, without letting you know ofcourse. Otherwise you would have to reveal yourself and your game and explain it all which isn't bad to do but to do that all the time and have people reject your game over and over is just no fun.

I used to be concerned with the ethical side to "hiding things" myself, however the mind can be easily guided, so its not really hiding anything more like its not being noticed by the unaware.
There can be many games played at once where the non tangible rules become complicated to navigate but there is no reason that it all cant be respected somehow.

I agree but in my case I would get ousted for my beliefs, I wouldn't get that job and salary, I wouldn't meet that woman who also has ambitions, I won't have children, in short I won't have the life I was promised by society or what I believed I should have gotten. Which is nobodies fault really and I can adjust but I don't think I'm the only one and many have similar problems which I don't see as getting solved in the future, more the opposite.

It will happen, I give mainstream religions three generations at most, especially the abrahamic ones.
In the west you can already see the decline of Christianity and with further education the rest of the world will follow suit.
Remember God has never invented a religion.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Once my mind let go of all these things i did not fear physical death or suffering. You know i deliberately set in motion a series of events in my personal life, that lead to me getting hauled into the hospital to be "mentally evaluated" on a Saturday morning against my will by two police officers. I sent in what could be described as a bizarre email to work telling them i was not feeling well to trigger this.
I did not know what the email resulted in but when it happened i got the biggest adrenalin rush. I did not fear because this was a potential outcome for my cause (The email). An extreme manifestation but never the less not totally blindsiding for me.

Anyway there i was talking to cops in my underwear with my hair looking like Albert Einstein's after a binge drink, heart pumping with adrenalin rushing. Since i knew what was happening i just talked to them honestly while not getting sucked into any leading questions. I made the communication as clear as possible and the police were confused but not frightened of me. They were actually feeling stupid for having to follow procedure.
Anyway they gave me a free escort to the hospital and express "jump the line service" when i got there. I did have to spend 4 hours there and see two doctors. I had my own tag team of shrinks working me after the docs, to which i had them in stitches laughing at my expression.

There was a point where i was thinking how cool it would be if i got to name my own "mental illness". I thought it would have to have the characteristics of all "illness" rolled into one to explain my case.
Anyway all in all it was an adventure i never would have imagined and then i got to go and experience the effects at work which was a whole other adventure all together lol
I just wanted to share this with you

reply to post by Dragonfly79

They are all educated guesses based on observations.

Are they? All?

True but then why don't kids at school get taught instead of having to correct one later in life through therapy?

What kids? Taught what? Are you assuming that one needs to know what will occur medically or psychologically to one in the future?

Be a little more specific and less general as what your saying and what I might think your saying might be way off.

Too bad for you that you can be labeled so easily, you shouldn't let yourself get pushed around so much, unless you happen to be one of those patients who enjoy the attention which psychiatry can give, to each their own.

Its too bad that not just me but anyone with an identity can be labeled so easily.

Who is pushing me around? what are you on about?

Why would you assume I am a patient who enjoys what psychiatry can give me?

Or unless you were found guilty of harming yourself or others which you don't need to reply to and nobody needs to know.

Found guilty of harming myself?

Who sets the laws for whats harming me and who polices them?


Seriously where and how do come up with these assumptions?

Originally posted by boymonkey74
It will happen, I give mainstream religions three generations at most, especially the abrahamic ones.
In the west you can already see the decline of Christianity and with further education the rest of the world will follow suit.
Remember God has never invented a religion.

I have imagined the time before religion but that's not the point. Without religion, nobody would have an image of God, sort of like having an imaginary role model of how to become someone you are not yet when you think of it.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

Are they? All?

If you want to instill doubt in my mind you have to do better than that and respond to the content. I can't take 2 words seriously, you'd have to spell out your opinion to me for there to be something you and I can discuss.

What kids?

I don't know where you are from but surely you must have seen children. You know those little people, come on.

Taught what?

Taught all the things I had to find out for myself later in life when the damage was almost done. Just having psychology as a course for example would help a lot. I am from a western country, but I do miss a lot of things which are valuable in life, just as valuable as learning math and calculate.

Are you assuming that one needs to know what will occur medically or psychologically to one in the future?

Well.. yeah?

Be a little more specific and less general as what your saying and what I might think your saying might be way off.

That's ok, I don't expect you to be able to read my mind or anything.

Who sets the laws for whats harming me and who polices them?
Seriously where and how do come up with these assumptions?

Well psychiatry does, even though they are passive about it now, in a few generations their power will be consolidated and people will not give a second thought to someone labeled mentally ill. They already have power in court for example. If you had read my posts you would know where I get these assumptions from, so when I see you have done that I'll respond to your questions but otherwise I can't waste my time like that.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

Once my mind let go of all these things i did not fear physical death or suffering. You know i deliberately set in motion a series of events in my personal life, that lead to me getting hauled into the hospital to be "mentally evaluated" on a Saturday morning against my will by two police officers. I sent in what could be described as a bizarre email to work telling them i was not feeling well to trigger this.

All I did was confide to my parents about seeing spirits who were very unhappy and how I was scared of them. Since then things changed and they wanted me to take medication or go into therapy, 'or else' they would let me know they don't love me that much. Which is when I decided they were not worth it anymore and I let them go slowly, but not before they could lock me up at one time when I visited them, as I don't believe I should shut them out of my life completely. It was an act of love by my parents from their point of view as they thought it was best for me, it was an act of betrayal to me and very insulting to say I lost my mind as I was exploring it and growing just had a bump in my development which I already solved.

Anyway there i was talking to cops in my underwear with my hair looking like Albert Einstein's after a binge drink, heart pumping with adrenalin rushing.

That sounds funny in retrospect even though I understand it wasn't. In my case I escaped my parents house through a window on the first floor (and I was in my late 20's!) then I waited for the police to show up even though in retrospect I should have just gone on the bus but I was afraid the police would suspect something had happened and I tried to ran away so I waited. I protested but the police officer wouldn't listen. Nowadays I have a number of a lawyer for quick intervention if needed followed by a lawsuit and claim for psychological damage (the embarassement of getting arrested on false grounds).

Since i knew what was happening i just talked to them honestly while not getting sucked into any leading questions. I made the communication as clear as possible and the police were confused but not frightened of me. They were actually feeling stupid for having to follow procedure.
Anyway they gave me a free escort to the hospital and express "jump the line service" when i got there. I did have to spend 4 hours there and see two doctors. I had my own tag team of shrinks working me after the docs, to which i had them in stitches laughing at my expression.

My interrogation only lasted 45 minutes after which the psychiatrists deemed me as being no threat to myself or others. But that is only because I was convincing, anyone else might have given in to the anger of being arrested falsely and giving them a piece of their mind.

There was a point where i was thinking how cool it would be if i got to name my own "mental illness". I thought it would have to have the characteristics of all "illness" rolled into one to explain my case.
Anyway all in all it was an adventure i never would have imagined and then i got to go and experience the effects at work which was a whole other adventure all together lol
I just wanted to share this with you

Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

My interrogation only lasted 45 minutes after which the psychiatrists deemed me as being no threat to myself or others. But that is only because I was convincing, anyone else might have given in to the anger of being arrested falsely and giving them a piece of their mind.

Thanks for sharing.

That felt familiar. I have to agree, i was "convincing" and released being no threat to myself or others.
For me its a give and take situation. I pick who and when i give a piece of my mind. Handling the blood rush is the key. Not to be to complacent but not to be to forceful i think.
I always want to be forceful with sharing my mind but it makes for more blood rush which makes me want to perpetuate my situation. Hit or miss i haven't learn t anything new unless i made error of judgements.