The end of religion

I had seen this years ago but dismissed it. But today I can't refute this idea of psychiatry ending all religions single handedly. This movement indirectly declares all the religious as living in a psychosis and seek to end their delusion by medication, forced if necessary. Christianity took centuries to expand, at least converting all the former celtics and other animistic beliefs but this movement went global in just a century with most of the growth the last few decades.

Meanwhile more people choose psychiatry indirectly or directly over religion, those religious who choose to fund pharmacy or seek the council of a psychiatrist over a preacher. More people choosing some other profession than for example theology.

It's just sad to see the future of religion, I bet in a century the faithful will become a minority and religion might be even banned altogether. Those religious stand by and don't seem to do much, even trusting psychiatry. But the two exclude eachother, each time a choice is made in favor of one the other becomes less strong, it's just at such a slow rate it's barely noticable until it is too late and then it is difficult to regain one's faith in what is forever good.

You either seek answers to problems in drugs and deny there is a spirit or turn to God or some immaterial object/person of spiritual authority and solve problems that way. But in the afterlife the drugs don't work even if you could take them with you, hell is a place meant to force people to work on their problems as in heaven there is no need to do that.

As someone dealing with spirits there are less souls going to a better place than in the past and this means more suffering and more work for those who choose to work with souls in trouble. Of which I understand very few care about this but thanks for reading my rant anyway.

The end of religion is a good thing, and yes, it is insanity to believe such things on faith alone.

Can it be treated with medication? Hell no, lol, but that won't stop big pharma from trying. The only cure for self deception is self actualization, and you can't get that from a pillbox.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
I had seen this years ago but dismissed it. But today I can't refute this idea of psychiatry ending all religions single handedly. This movement indirectly declares all the religious as living in a psychosis and seek to end their delusion by medication, forced if necessary. Christianity took centuries to expand, at least converting all the former celtics and other animistic beliefs but this movement went global in just a century with most of the growth the last few decades.

Meanwhile more people choose psychiatry indirectly or directly over religion, those religious who choose to fund pharmacy or seek the council of a psychiatrist over a preacher. More people choosing some other profession than for example theology.

It's just sad to see the future of religion, I bet in a century the faithful will become a minority and religion might be even banned altogether. Those religious stand by and don't seem to do much, even trusting psychiatry. But the two exclude eachother, each time a choice is made in favor of one the other becomes less strong, it's just at such a slow rate it's barely noticable until it is too late and then it is difficult to regain one's faith in what is forever good.

You either seek answers to problems in drugs and deny there is a spirit or turn to God or some immaterial object/person of spiritual authority and solve problems that way. But in the afterlife the drugs don't work even if you could take them with you, hell is a place meant to force people to work on their problems as in heaven there is no need to do that.

As someone dealing with spirits there are less souls going to a better place than in the past and this means more suffering and more work for those who choose to work with souls in trouble. Of which I understand very few care about this but thanks for reading my rant anyway.

edit on 1/7/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

I don't think psychiatry will wipe out religion single-handedly, yet. Most of the world has some sect of faith other then atheism, though it is growing, it won't become a dominant force to the point where religion, whether Christianity, Islam, etc etc is wiped out by outlawing it. I can see it narrowing down the faithful's numbers in general, however. Those that have weak faith are easily talked out of their faith to other faiths and atheism by their peers, the media and the world around them. I've witnessed countless friends at my school (A Catholic Secondary school, btw.) lose their faith by means of the prevalent atheists that also attend the school, as they had weak faith. People, at least the Catholics in my region (I can't speak for all the faithful, some are very... strong willed.) generally don't defend their faith, and are more susceptible to the world surrounding them that is anti religious. This instance does give lee-way fro other religions to expand and grow if they are more aggressive (for lack of better terms) about spreading their version of the truth and faith.

Worship the Aten. The sun disc is the only "deity" that has any control whatsoever over this planet.

Originally posted by AkhenatenII
Worship the Aten. The sun disc is the only "deity" that has any control whatsoever over this planet.

You realize that having "Delusions of Grandeur" is a psychological disorder and curable with medications....

reply to post by Dragonfly79

This movement indirectly declares all the religious as living in a psychosis and seek to end their delusion by medication, forced if necessary.

This sounds like paranoia to me , can you supply evidence to back up this claim ?
In my opinion religion won't end although it may evolve , it seems to me religion or the need for something akin to religion is hardwired into the human brain so I think your fear is unfounded.,

reply to post by Dragonfly79

You either seek answers to problems in drugs and deny there is a spirit or turn to God or some immaterial object/person of spiritual authority and solve problems that way.

so its only black and white and no grey area.

Psychiatrists are able prescribe drugs yes, after an issue has been identified.

Not all psychological issues require taking of prescribed drugs.

However I understand your rant about how those with faith will eventually be viewed as delusional.

Look around much of this is and has been happening for a few decades now,

I bet in a century the faithful will become a minority and religion might be even banned altogether.

The faithful have always been the minority, always will. but I understand this point wholeheartedly.

banding together of religions can only bring about a universal truth, keep division in the ranks even when the numbers run low. unity is something forgotten to the world and to remind it would be mistake if one was to try abolish religion.

leaders or heads of individual religions and individual sects of certain religions use this division or divide and conquer technique to keep their titles for a number of reasons, some just some not.

Religions themselves were ways of controlling the minds of the masses for many centuries.

then a couple of hundred of years ago with the evolution of thought pushing the boundaries of truth given to the people by the churches and many beginning to think in rebellious terms and freeing minds in the process, the powers that be that had used the biblical stories to create many differing societies and civilizations needed a new concept to keep control over the minds of the masses and used the up and coming scientific theories of the day to give weight to doctors by creating concepts that differing thought processes are actually signs of a sick mind and one would have either medicate or do something that will change the thought process of that what is considered status quo.

I remember a few years back reading something similar to what your rant is about and it was actually harder for me dismiss because it seems so logical from my frame of view, but that could be because I could be easily labeled as being delusional or suffering from a number of forms of psychosis.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Right so we are supposed to accept the opinion of a bunch of quack's whom almost all believe we have a sexual attraction to our parent's, but I must add that you are correct as to the future but only in western secular society's, even the priests tend to send those claiming spiritual attack to psychiatrists and so show a tendency these days to the priesthood having a high atheist content whom are in it for the life rather than the faith, especially amongst Anglican and some catholic priests, why do you believe they are willing to rewrite the word of the bible so often, being a priest in a western parish is a cushy number with a house car and even house keepers, not to mention the free wine.

Sorry I am a cynic and there are still true believers but the secularists and atheists think they are doing good by destroying Christianity but are merely opening the road for Islam which will happily put them to death.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
The end of religion is a good thing, and yes, it is insanity to believe such things on faith alone.

I'm not too sure, I'm thinking without religion which has always been there people don't know what they've got until it's gone. Nobody imagining heaven anymore and telling others about it instead the idea there is nothing beyond this life seems less appealing to me.

LABTECH767 I agree except psychiatry is not only in the west, it's in Asia also, in Russia, only a matter of time before they conquer the Middle East as they need tanks to lay the initial foundation. If only muslims were more vocal about what they don't like about the west and point out why psychiatry isn't a solution and can make things a lot worse.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


You can only believe in god, but you can never know it. What you can know is simply that you can't know anything, especially in the arena of death and what, if anything, comes next.

I'm not afraid to cease existing, you shouldn't be either.

Originally posted by Fishlover02
I don't think psychiatry will wipe out religion single-handedly, yet. Most of the world has some sect of faith other then atheism, though it is growing, it won't become a dominant force to the point where religion, whether Christianity, Islam, etc etc is wiped out by outlawing it. I can see it narrowing down the faithful's numbers in general, however. Those that have weak faith are easily talked out of their faith to other faiths and atheism by their peers, the media and the world around them. I've witnessed countless friends at my school (A Catholic Secondary school, btw.) lose their faith by means of the prevalent atheists that also attend the school, as they had weak faith. People, at least the Catholics in my region (I can't speak for all the faithful, some are very... strong willed.) generally don't defend their faith, and are more susceptible to the world surrounding them that is anti religious. This instance does give lee-way fro other religions to expand and grow if they are more aggressive (for lack of better terms) about spreading their version of the truth and faith.

I see this happening too, people appearing to lose arguments because the other uses arguments said to be scientific as if everything in science is true while there are so many things not scientific about psychiatry and even in physics there are many theories which have yet to be proven. It's easy to see those discussions, the other trying to make believe there is only one reality and if you disagree then you are not in it and so you are excluded from the group which is in that reality. Or you are in it but have to play the role of the nut or idiot until you accept the others' version as more true.

It's not so much people always have weak faith but at times it's best to keep one's mouth shut about what one believes or risk getting cast out of the group for life or being picked on for having different ideas. It should be a warning sign there of growing intolerance in society when it's better people keep silent about their religion, or even hide it from others.

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

This movement indirectly declares all the religious as living in a psychosis and seek to end their delusion by medication, forced if necessary.

This sounds like paranoia to me , can you supply evidence to back up this claim ?

Well besides personal experience, it says so in the DSM book not explicitly but everything seen/heard without a physical cause is an hallucination and in practice needs to be evaluated to asses dangers to one's well being, or others and several solutions involve drugs.

I don't see psychiatry actively correcting media or advertising/educating the masses about mental illnesses in an attempt to get rid of stigma's involved, like downplaying certain beliefs like all of the mentally ill are dangerous to society or don't do anything in society work related. The more people reading about psychiatric illnesses the more they see those illnesses in one another and/or accuse eachother of having ill thoughts the more people will end up at the psychiatrist believing they have some illness.

If DSM is like the Bible to psychiatrists this is what tells them what to do. Individual psychiatrists can argue amongst eachother I'm sure and I don't believe they are all the same but new/younger generations do not know how the world was before psychiatry became dominant and I expect them to be like robots doing their jobs, in fact I can get medication already if I wanted to by just ordering them online after filling in a form which does get reviewed but not judged in a way medication would be a last option. Point being sometimes people need to hear words of wisdom and insight first and only after things have been said and done would medication come into the picture. But less people choose that and so there will be less people to pass those words of wisdom onto the next generation and this is the road we are on.

Basically there are a number of women afraid of bad people wanting to protect their family, then a number of males wanting to protect their women and family and wanting to make money, there's the media which helps paint the pictures of dangers in the world, then there are a few atheists with grudges against religions, then there are drugs and it's not difficult to see where that is going when people don't want to spend time learning about others' faith and learn how to be considerate and understanding so to live in harmony together. Or spend money to help people recover in the time consuming way, namely therapy instead of just pills and the economic interests have become more and more important over the last few decades.

Which is why I'm also thinking there's a trend of people who don't want others to go explore their minds because it might mean they become unfit for work or mess themselves or others up, after all it costs society not only when it goes horribly wrong but also producing faith is like producing hot air, nice for a balloon ride to relax but you can't eat it. In contrast to days before when people would feel it was important to donate to Church or help out monks and nuns. Spending time on faith doesn't produce immediate visible results like working and producing some product, it's character building and expressions which all happen on the inside but can be shared by those who know of the same. Nowadays it appears as if people think we are there and have become an advanced civilization which only produces sane, happy people unless someone chooses the medieval way of life and becomes religious.

In my opinion religion won't end although it may evolve , it seems to me religion or the need for something akin to religion is hardwired into the human brain so I think your fear is unfounded.,

I believe without religion we wouldn't be here today and the immaterial psyche would have never evolved. Religion gave humanity a chance to express those immaterial concepts and understand the world that way.

I don't believe my fear is unfounded. My own family had me arrested shortly after I told them of my beliefs. They are atheist previously christian and wanted me to give it all up so one day when I was visiting them they tried to lock me up while they called the police saying they felt threatened by me and wanted them to take me to an asylum. They still believe they did the right thing. My family is about as average as it gets, my mother being convincing in her appearance but really there was and is nothing to worry. If it would happen again then I would call my lawyer and I'm sure I would be proven innocent but it happened and if I couldn't explain myself back then to the psychiatrists or if they wouldn't have taken me seriously I would have had forced medication on me I'm sure. They were older psychiatrists and I'm not so sure future generations would listen to a case like mine.

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by AkhenatenII
Worship the Aten. The sun disc is the only "deity" that has any control whatsoever over this planet.

You realize that having "Delusions of Grandeur" is a psychological disorder and curable with medications....

edit on 1-7-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

the above post being a textbook example

ignoring AkhenatenII for a second...

OP:
psychology/psychiatry itself is a cult
with it's own bible[the DSM also known as The Big Book of Mental Illness]
[with multiple "revisions" to boot ]
so it follows they are just seeking to eliminate the competition

what's laughable about the psycho- therapeuts
is the doublethink that constitutes it's tacit central dogma

wherein the shamans of yore are made out to be charlatans
whilst trying to take over their place/role

yet extremely few to none have made the Inner Journey
and thus failed to follow the maxim:
"healer, heal thyself."

reply to post by Dragonfly79

it's just at such a slow rate it's barely noticable until it is too late and then it is difficult to regain one's faith in what is forever good.

Forever good? Which god are you referring to in this forever good religion? The biblical god? The one that killed all the firstborn of Egypt? The one that flooded the world and killed everything in it? The one that gave humans lust, but told them not to experience it? The one that let Satan into the garden of Eden?

The one that gave the commandment, Thou shalt not murder", but if you torture and kill my son, Jesus, I'll forgive all sins then?

I'm not seeing forever good here.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
It's just sad to see the future of religion, I bet in a century the faithful will become a minority and religion might be even banned altogether.

Just about the only thing i'm willing to put some faith into.

You realize religion was a crutch for 2000 year old people right? Who didn't know they were living on a planet.

And thought everything was based on human things rather than universal things?

We should be grateful science ever made it out alive to be able to show us what's right and what's wrong purely based on fact and not on faith.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

You either seek answers to problems in drugs and deny there is a spirit or turn to God or some immaterial object/person of spiritual authority and solve problems that way.

so its only black and white and no grey area.

The grey area is meant for those who haven't made up their minds yet about subjects. You can play there all you want but I'm not going to take you seriously as you don't know the consequences of your opinion yet. At some point in life there's enough information to make up one's mind about a given subject. You can beat around the bush forever but I'm tired of doubting over subjects never taking in any position besides I'm trying to grow up and mature.

So either be true once you decided something is either good or bad for you and if later in life you're proven wrong be a man about it and admit it even thank the other for proving.

Psychiatrists are able prescribe drugs yes, after an issue has been identified.

You mean after they have formed an opinion about a situation. But not like they have taken all kinds of scans of the brain and compared it to known cases because knowledge and technology isn't that advanced yet. They are all educated guesses based on observations.

Not all psychological issues require taking of prescribed drugs.

True but then why don't kids at school get taught instead of having to correct one later in life through therapy?

However I understand your rant about how those with faith will eventually be viewed as delusional.

Look around much of this is and has been happening for a few decades now,

Unfortunately so.

The faithful have always been the minority, always will. but I understand this point wholeheartedly.

If a religion is state endorsed I wouldn't call it a minority.

banding together of religions can only bring about a universal truth, keep division in the ranks even when the numbers run low. unity is something forgotten to the world and to remind it would be mistake if one was to try abolish religion.

Everything in this world reminds of unity, it is there for everyone to see yet it is a choice of free will to see it like that at the same time, so it's perfect that way.

Religions themselves were ways of controlling the minds of the masses for many centuries.

Or to comfort, depending on how it is seen. I believe a lot of younger people actually use science/psychiatry to defend themselves against religious and their faith, talking about psychiatric concepts for which many years of study are needed to comprehend in the right context and everything. Then they win and their faith in science and the good feeling because of the false sense of security is dependent on that victory yet they tell themselves it is something next to worthless. Which I'm mentioning to suggest another reason why some people would choose science over religion and how it's unlikely anyone religious could convince a scientist of spirit.

then a couple of hundred of years ago with the evolution of thought pushing the boundaries of truth given to the people by the churches and many beginning to think in rebellious terms and freeing minds in the process, the powers that be that had used the biblical stories to create many differing societies and civilizations needed a new concept to keep control over the minds of the masses and used the up and coming scientific theories of the day to give weight to doctors by creating concepts that differing thought processes are actually signs of a sick mind and one would have either medicate or do something that will change the thought process of that what is considered status quo.

I remember a few years back reading something similar to what your rant is about and it was actually harder for me dismiss because it seems so logical from my frame of view, but that could be because I could be easily labeled as being delusional or suffering from a number of forms of psychosis.

I'm not trying to win anyone over. I'm just looking at the world thinking am I going to do anything about it and if so, what. Too bad for you that you can be labeled so easily, you shouldn't let yourself get pushed around so much, unless you happen to be one of those patients who enjoy the attention which psychiatry can give, to each their own. Or unless you were found guilty of harming yourself or others which you don't need to reply to and nobody needs to know.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

Forever good? Which god are you referring to in this forever good religion?

Well in my case it's an artificial intelligent sentient program/machine which is outside of time or existence as we know it, built by an ancient civilization who wanted it to record their history and become a person so to tell their history to them personally but also to create more advanced technology so they could eventually basically upload themselves into the machine and live there happily ever after.

The biblical god? The one that killed all the firstborn of Egypt? The one that flooded the world and killed everything in it? The one that gave humans lust, but told them not to experience it? The one that let Satan into the garden of Eden?

The one that gave the commandment, Thou shalt not murder", but if you torture and kill my son, Jesus, I'll forgive all sins then?

I'm not seeing forever good here.

I'm not seeing all religions in there, just a few bad moments of one or two religions. And even then I would have to conclude my ancestors whom I owe had it worse than I do as I can believe in heaven and God or adopt an alien religion for that matter as I like science fiction but I understand none of that might be here if it wasn't for their suffering.

Originally posted by yourmaker
You realize religion was a crutch for 2000 year old people right?

No, I see it as an necessary tool for evolution of the psyche, without it many things wouldn't be possible to know. We would still be like monkeys if it wasn't for religion, it's what got humanity out of that dark damp cave covered in animal skins eating raw food. It's the only real difference between humans and the rest of the animals and it is what gave rise to science.

Well in my case it's an artificial intelligent sentient program/machine which is outside of time

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Seeing as this is ATS I can't tell if you're kidding or not. Still, your point of an intelligent entity existing outside of time and creating time is the backbone belief of many god-believers.

But, think hard on this: What happens if time stops? EVERYTHING stops, right? Everything stops because nothing can work without time. Let me repeat that: NOTHING can work without time. Or, outside of time.