Why can't God just show himself to us?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I am not trying to convince you or anyone, I’m just laying it out as I understand it. And what I trust.
I think people forget that we are just riding out our earthly lives here but we have an eternity waiting for us and that is what I wait for. We all die. We all grow old. No one knows what is on the other side. Do I want to dwell on becoming a ghost that roams about randomly or hangs onto family watching them live lives while I am just a past thought to them, or will I be a particle of energy floating about forever, will I have a consciousness and be in a floating emptyness of black, or will I be with a loving Creator that loves and accepts me, who delights in me and I delight in Him and I have a "mansion" He has prepared for me. He has created an existence that will be full of more amazing things than I have any comprehension of. I am just living my life with God as my Father and trying to live my life with love in all things I do and wait for my real existence to begin.

Take care!

reply to post by Darkblade71

Yep, I upset the creator, and I got chastised for it, but it was all a part of the plan, what plan I don't know, as it is far beyond me to understand God, other than God exists all around me,you,the OP, and once one is able to understand and experience it, then God reviles itself in whatever way that person will understand best.

So, how do you pursue God now? What practices have you changed? Or did you stop practicing everything altogether?

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Kids that die every day, rapes, torture – this is what comes of man’s sin. We must pray for those who are in those situations, to help those people, or to prevent it. God will not intervene unless we call out to Him or pray for those people. That is why prayers are so important.

If you saw that there was a man that was about to rape a little girl... and you had the power to stop it, you have powers like God, you could save that little girl from being raped... would you interfere and save the little girl?

So...

*Takes a DEEP breath*

God sees man (his own creation) is sinful and corrupted by the devil (his own creation) and decides to destroy them but instead, sends himself down (Jesus) to save man from God (himself/Jesus) but only if they believe in him (Jesus/God) will they be able to be saved from God's wrath (Jesus/God).
Not everyone wants to believe in Jesus (God) so God kills himself (Jesus) on a cross (commits suicide?) to save mankind from God's (himself/Jesus) wrath.

Make sense?

God help us

Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Hi Daniel - I'm sorry if that is how my comment came across. This is what I meant.

The teachings of Jesus, the Council of Jerusalem, and other New Testament teachings (John 1:16-17, Acts 13:39, Romans 2:25-29, 8:1-4, 1 Corinthians 9:19-21, Galatians 2:15-16, Ephesians 2:15) make it clear that Christians are not required to follow the Old Testament rules about crimes and punishments, warfare, slavery, diet, circumcision, animal sacrifices, feast days, Sabbath observance, ritual cleanness, etc.
Christians still look to the Old Testament scripture for moral and spiritual guidance (2 Timothy 3:16-17). But when there seems to be a conflict between Old Testament laws and New Testament principles, we must follow the New Testament because it represents the most recent and most perfect revelation from God (Hebrews 8:13, 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, Galatians 2:15-20).
www.christianbiblereference.org...

If the old testament says "Follow every law until the end of time" then the new testament says "Don't follow the laws of the old testament" How is it that you get to pick and choose?

Who picked and chose? One says one things, the other says something else. How can you take this book seriously?

Do you even know what to believe or why you are believing it?

I don't know to you, but to me it's absurd to have a Bible that has many conflicts and you having you pick and choose what to believe what to leave out and then tell people that to believe in God and Jesus they have to read the Bible.

Why not just create your own Bible and put on the verse that you picked to follow?

Daniel - the Old Testament was a recording of events and Jewish traditions and beliefs. Everything was based on law. It seems contradictory if you just read it simply line by line by line. You have to go back a bit more and realize that Jewish tradition and law were the way life was lived. Think of it as a historical document. If we understand how the world thought at that time along with their beliefs and traditions then the words make more sense. Kind of like that old joke of why the cut of meat has to be just "so" when placed in the roaster. When the daughter does her research with her Grandmother she is told, "I used to cut off the other part of the roast because my roaster was only so big." Yet this became a family way of cooking the roast. Poor example perhaps but only one that I can use for example at this time. Jesus replaced the "law" when He died for us. That is what Grace is. We no longer are for example stoned for having an affair. We are instead forgiven. I used to wonder the same thing and it gets very confusing. Yes I believe the Bible - you can read it and leave it at that or delve deeper.Why does it seem contradictory? Dig deep and understand the background and it will no longer be contradictory.. You will find some areas that give you comfort and answer questions. Other areas will confuse, contradict and leave you thinking, "what the...?" But there are Jewish words that meant certain things, there are Jewish traditions that no longer apply. There are Jewish festivals that influenced thinking and the ways things were done. The Old Testament is strictly from a Jewish viewpoint. Jesus was the Messiah but even the Jews rejected Him for they didn't think He was according to what THEY believed He should be. Even the believers get things wrong.There are layers and layers of meaning within the verses of the Bible.

reply to post by danielsil18


Absolutly. No question. I know where you are going with this.
God will intervene if we ask for ourselves or on behalf of others.
Otherwise there is no free will.

reply to post by danielsil18

I can link you a picture of a kiwi.

I can link you a picture of a rooster pouring a cup of coffee. Do you think it happened?

If you describe a kiwi fruit to someone that has never seen one before, he will probably tell you that such a thing doesn't exist.

Anyway, you may be able to see God in a kiwi, the original point that you missed.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
So...

*Takes a DEEP breath*

God sees man (his own creation) is sinful and corrupted by the devil (his own creation) and decides to destroy them but instead, sends himself down (Jesus) to save man from God (himself/Jesus) but only if they believe in him (Jesus/God) will they be able to be saved from God's wrath (Jesus/God).
Not everyone wants to believe in Jesus (God) so God kills himself (Jesus) on a cross (commits suicide?) to save mankind from God's (himself/Jesus) wrath.

Make sense?

God help us

Doesn't make sense but that's basically what happened.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Absolutly. No question. I know where you are going with this.
God will intervene if we ask for ourselves or on behalf of others.
Otherwise there is no free will.

edit on 1/7/13 by ccseagull because: Explained in more detail

You knew where I was going but your answer didn't do the question justice.

You basically said that God would value free will much more than that little girl.

Seagull, you have a better heart than the God you preach.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by danielsil18

 

I can link you a picture of a kiwi.

I can link you a picture of a rooster pouring a cup of coffee. Do you think it happened?

If you describe a kiwi fruit to someone that has never seen one before, he will probably tell you that such a thing doesn't exist.

Anyway, you may be able to see God in a kiwi, the original point that you missed.

rooster pouring a cup of coffee? i wouldn't believe it. I would ask to see it to believe it.

A kiwi? I'll buy a kiwi from the supermarket and show it to the person that has never seen it. I'll give it to that person so he can touch it, taste it, eat it, and if he wants he can play with it too.

Being able to see God in a kiwi? again if you are not talking about the God the Bible mentions than we are not talking about the same thing.

reply to post by Mister_Bit

Not everyone wants to believe in Jesus (God) so God kills himself (Jesus) on a cross (commits suicide?) to save mankind from God's (himself/Jesus) wrath.

Make sense?

God had to create a way to reconcile human souls back to himself so that people wouldn't die after the human body of flesh dies.

If people choose to reject that reconciliation, then yes, they will face God's wrath by not being reconciled back to God through the Spirit to live for eternity.

Did your father ever tell you to do chores or obey while he was away?

Did you do what you were told even though he wasn't there physically?

Same thing.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Mister_Bit

 

Not everyone wants to believe in Jesus (God) so God kills himself (Jesus) on a cross (commits suicide?) to save mankind from God's (himself/Jesus) wrath.

Make sense?

God had to create a way to reconcile human souls back to himself so that people wouldn't die after the human body of flesh dies.

If people choose to reject that reconciliation, then yes, they will face God's wrath by not being reconciled back to God through the Spirit to live for eternity.

So basically God/Jesus got crucified by humans so God could forgive humans from God's wrath.

Originally posted by KaelemJames
reply to post by danielsil18

 

I don't like quoting from the Bible on ATS. But, at times it is necessary.

Ezekiel 12:2: Son of man, you are living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people.

Matthew 13:13-17: For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them. But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

Maybe what you quoted means that we the people need to look outside of the box at what our governments are doing. It could be a warning that what you see and hear from the tv, radio, newspapers are to get your attention while something else more sinister is happening elsewhere that is in your black-spot. I think that Satan is not a who but what and is in fact technology. Look at how technology has caused so many deaths and has been used for evil.

Reading reply after reply (why doesnt god just show him self so I would nop longer dought him .
I have a better one If god did show up .Why have thy forsakin me lord?
Funny thing Jesus who was ddieing on the cross asked this very same question.
Strang question from a gods son dont you think?
after all he was the son of god ((right without sin or dought ((righht?)
then why such a doughtinmg ((VEREY human question on his death cross.
It doesnt matter if theres a god or not people ((think he helped thous poeple begging on 911 as the building fell?
God is like aliens if they change NOTHING then it doesnt matter if they are real.
All the power in the unavirse and uses it to what ?Creat the DEVIL HIM self??
now theres proff of a perfict god cant even get his angels right.
HECK with my typos you people need something to complain about.

Originally posted by Miracula
Did your father ever tell you to do chores or obey while he was away?

Did you do what you were told even though he wasn't there physically?

Same thing.

The huge difference is that my father told me face to face to do the chores while he was away.

See, I know for a fact my father exists, told me to do the chores, and I'm sure he is coming back.

-You say that Jesus replaced the "law" when he died for us.-


If Jesus replaced the "law" of the old testament when he died, why is it that Christians still follow the Ten Commandments? You do know that the 10 Commandments come from the old testament.

Also, what you said is wrong according to Jesus himself:

reply to post by danielsil18

Being able to see God in a kiwi? again if you are not talking about the God the Bible mentions than we are not talking about the same thing.

Again with the Bible!

Why rely on what men wrote about God?

You should be happy that I didn't ask you to do this:

Describe what UV radiation looks like.
(you can't see it, you can't hear it, but I bet you think it exists)

Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by Miracula
Did your father ever tell you to do chores or obey while he was away?

Did you do what you were told even though he wasn't there physically?

Same thing.

The huge difference is that my father told me face to face to do the chores while he was away.

See, I know for a fact my father exists, told me to do the chores, and I'm sure he is coming back.

... and if and when Our Father comes back to find out that we threw a party while he was away, which actually turned his home into a sh*t-hole, he's gonna be pretty p!ssed off that we screwed this place up... and then what---another flood?

He's gonna rain down fire, sulfur and brimstone?

Locusts?

Send a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at us?

Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Absolutly. No question. I know where you are going with this.
God will intervene if we ask for ourselves or on behalf of others.
Otherwise there is no free will.

edit on 1/7/13 by ccseagull because: Explained in more detail

You knew where I was going but your answer didn't do the question justice.

You basically said that God would value free will much more than that little girl.


Seagull, you have a better heart than the God you preach.

My dear I cannot explain in my own words better than the following:

What you are in essence asking about God is what throughout time people have always asked about God: Why does he allow evil to exist?
And that excellent simple question has an excellent, simple answer: God allows people to do whatever horrible, vile, evil things they want to, because to do otherwise would be to violate people’s free will, which is something that God’s love for all people absolutely prevents him from doing.
God gave us free will. And he will not take it from us. And we do not want him to take it from us. Free will is what defines us. It’s our most precious attribute. Without free will we are at best animals, and at worst mindless automatons.
God gave us our free will because he wants us fully independent. He so loves us, in other words, that he gave us the power to reject him. That is love, and full respect. We would not want, or stand for, anything less.
The great downside of free will is that it grants each and every one of us the capability of violating the free will of anyone weaker than ourselves. That’s a despicable thing to do, of course: it is what crime is. Ultimately all crime boils down to one person exercising their free will to in some way override the free will of another—which we all understand as such an egregious thing to do that we punish the perpetrator of such a violation by in turn removing, via imprisonment, their free will.
Life is about the exchange and negotiation of relative free wills.
The irreducible truth is that right now, if I want to, I can beat my wife. She is weaker than I; she could not stop me from doing that. I am free to commit that atrocity.
What you would wish is for God to stop me from doing that, to stay my hand. You wish for God to look down, see that I am about to strike my wife, and somehow arrest that action: freeze me in mid-motion, paralyze my arm, instantly replace my crazed fury with peaceful thoughts and feelings.
You want God to in some way directly and purposefully violate my free will. You essentially and explicitly want me, at God’s will, to at that moment transform into God’s puppet.
But the truth is that you do not, in fact, want that. Because you would not want God to also be able to at will transform you into his mindless, will-free puppet. Ultimately you would insist for me what you certainly insist upon for yourself: absolute freedom.
Every blessing carries its own curse. The blessing of free will is the curse of human evil. The two are inseparable. That cannot change.
If you want will that is truly free—if you want everyone to have the kind of autonomy you certainly desire for yourself—then you want stronger people to be able to victimize weaker people. I know that feels pretty distinctly counterintuitive—but, if you think about it, that is where you arrive. It is where we all arrive. No human being wants a God who is constantly busy monitoring their every action and thought, and preventing or suddenly changing those which he feels cross the line between good and evil, between right and wrong, between acceptable and unacceptable.
None of wants to exist on a slope so weird, slippery, random, and out of control. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. We don’t want God interfering with our lives and identity that way. And we can’t wish for others what we don’t want for ourselves.
I’d be the last person in the world to blame you for rejecting God. But the hard truth remains that it was not God who betrayed you. It was people. And God did not stop those people from committing their horrible transgressions against you and your son for the same reason he did not stop you from recovering from those transgressions in the valiant, ennobling way you have.
johnshore.com...