It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why can't God just show himself to us?

page: 17
5
<< 14  15  16    18 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 02:04 PM
link   
reply to post by BlackManINC
 


This is all beside the point. Back to the topic: why can't God just show himself to us?

1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.

2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.

3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.

It should be noted that there is little evidence at this point in time to suggest the continuing existence of a god. Even if evidence exists to suggest there was once a god or a consciously ruling divine power actively interacting with this world, such evidence is no longer appearing as a result of current events. And by 'evidence', I mean concrete proof that points directly to, and nowhere other than, a consciously ruling divine power interacting with this world. As such, it can be safely assumed that whatever god past evidence would lead us to believe in, there is nowhere near enough evidence to believe that such a being still exists presently and actively.

With all of that in mind, let's discuss the three options I have listed above, as they fall quite neatly into the situation I just described.
edit on 14-8-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 11:04 AM
link   
reply to post by danielsil18
 


You are absolutely right, it is a bad argument.

If you ask "why can't God show up for us?" they'll say "it's against free-will" which is non-sense because you can still choose to disobey just like Satan supposedly did (if you believe the bible).


If by "God" you mean that 'spirit' of The Bible who supposedly sits on a 'throne' in 'heaven', then he can't show up because he is a thoughtform/spirit and isn't powerful enough to manifest physically as some type of gigantic spirit.

According to the bible, they themselves believed that the end of the world were soon. They were promoting asceticism (no sex and pleasures) because they believed that Jesus Christ was on his way back with the kingdom of heaven so it wasn't good to have children and so some of them chose to stay celibate.

According to The Bible, Jesus told a church of Greece that he is "soon" to return - that was 2000 years ago. That church doesn't even exist anymore.

Jesus is a failed prophet. Even if he came now, it would be too late. His prophecy was false.



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 01:04 PM
link   
BLESSED are those that believe but don't see.



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 01:20 PM
link   
reply to post by 2WitnessesArrived
 



BLESSED are those that believe but don't see.


Translation: ignorance is bliss. Therefore, blessed are those who believe without cause, and who speak without ground. Blessed are those who preach whereof they know only what they are given to know by those who have done the same before them, and they will inherit the kingdom of subjugation and sycophancy forever and ever. Amen.
edit on 15-8-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 01:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlackManINC
 


This is all beside the point. Back to the topic: why can't God just show himself to us?

1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.

2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.

3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.

It should be noted that there is little evidence at this point in time to suggest the continuing existence of a god. Even if evidence exists to suggest there was once a god or a consciously ruling divine power actively interacting with this world, such evidence is no longer appearing as a result of current events. And by 'evidence', I mean concrete proof that points directly to, and nowhere other than, a consciously ruling divine power interacting with this world. As such, it can be safely assumed that whatever god past evidence would lead us to believe in, there is nowhere near enough evidence to believe that such a being still exists presently and actively.

With all of that in mind, let's discuss the three options I have listed above, as they fall quite neatly into the situation I just described.
edit on 14-8-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Is no one interested in answering this post?



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 05:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlackManINC

This is the response I was expected as it’s the same old and tired excuse that all non-believers fall back on, which is inbreeding causing deformities. We are all related to a degree genetically to start with. If your spouse wasn’t related to you, then you have a serious problem as it means you are not married to a human. The biological problems resulting from inbreeding that were later strictly prohibited in the days of Moses concerns close relatives, which is where the defects arrive, the closer the relation, the bigger the risk of deformities overtime. In the early days, however, children born from the union of siblings would not have defects as would surely happen today as Adam and Eve were physically perfect in every way to being with. It was only after the fall of man, when sin entered the world and God placing a curse upon it that everything started to degenerate, and it would take hundreds of years (not a mere fifty years as you propose) for the mistakes of accumulate to a degree that would be a significant risk for siblings to marry. We all have hundreds of these genetic mistakes as a result today, they just don't show themselves in the form of deformities because of our substantially different genetic backgrounds.


Alright I will play dumb. Non-believers of what exactly? the unlikelihood of two people co-creating the human race, and it not having destroyed itself within the fifth or 500 generation? I will say this about Adam and Eve, they certainly created many different profiles all over the planet (seemingly AT ONCE) and for whatever reason taught them entirely different languages, customs, shelter building, clothing styles, food cultivation. Are you saying they were demi-gods and with falling still were brilliant enough to bring about the multitude of separate races successfully? I thought they were shunned; how did their progeny travel without help, why do we have different blood types if Adam had A- and Eve O+, why so many more, A+, B-, AB, and so forth. Genetic backgrounds???? If there are only two humans procreating where did the "substantially different" ones come from? You are NOT saying they are mutations of a negative impact? What IDEAL form were Adam and Eve before the fall?
edit on 15-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 05:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlackManINC
 


This is all beside the point. Back to the topic: why can't God just show himself to us?

1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.

2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.

3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.

It should be noted that there is little evidence at this point in time to suggest the continuing existence of a god. Even if evidence exists to suggest there was once a god or a consciously ruling divine power actively interacting with this world, such evidence is no longer appearing as a result of current events. And by 'evidence', I mean concrete proof that points directly to, and nowhere other than, a consciously ruling divine power interacting with this world. As such, it can be safely assumed that whatever god past evidence would lead us to believe in, there is nowhere near enough evidence to believe that such a being still exists presently and actively.

With all of that in mind, let's discuss the three options I have listed above, as they fall quite neatly into the situation I just described.
edit on 14-8-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Is no one interested in answering this post?


4. Either God does not exist and we invented IT or it exists within us and were not told so (point being? the grand joke played upon humanity) punchline delayed. I agree with all three of your assesments. Nothing makes any sense other than there is a reason why we are here and it escapes me.
edit on 15-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 05:42 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


All three options cannot simultaneously be true.



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 05:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


All three options cannot simultaneously be true.


They can as there is no time in the spiritual world (non-physical) but if I were to pick one of yours, Id say #2, Something more powerful than the 'voyeuristic' God as we know it took charge and killed its ability to use the human as an emotional food/energy source. What of the 4 do you purpose to be the most likely?



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 05:53 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Your fourth option is also invalid. I would say that no being as ever existed in the capacity commonly ascribed to the Abrahamic god.



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 07:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


Your fourth option is also invalid. I would say that no being as ever existed in the capacity commonly ascribed to the Abrahamic god.


Of course not, if you dont ascribe to Abrahams Law; you would have to have a belief system in place; or a self defeating desire to read scripture. I Have NIETHER. You cannot propose notions out of thin air and not defend their authenticity; which is exactly what you have done. If all four are invalid what do you imagine is the true valid supposition?
edit on 15-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 07:30 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Of course not, you would have to have a belief system in place; or a desire to read scripture. I Have NIETHER. You cannot propose notions out of thin air and not defend theyre authenticity; which is exactly what you have done.


I disagree. You are just unable to discern the difference.

Here are the three options I offered previously:


1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.

2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.

3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.


This is the fourth option that you provided in addition to the three above:


4. Either God does not exist and we invented IT or it exists within us and were not told so (point being? the grand joke played upon humanity) punchline delayed. I agree with all three of your assesments. Nothing makes any sense other than there is a reason why we are here and it escapes me.


Options 1 and 2 require the existence of a god, and are differentiated in that 1 constitutes willing abandonment and 2 constitutes unwilling abandonment. Option 3 allows for either an imagined god or a dead god. Your option, option 4, is redundant as it is essentially the same as my option 3.

I am not just "making things up". There is usually a method to my madness.

edit on 15-8-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 09:03 PM
link   
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

veteranhumanbeing
Of course not, you would have to have a belief system in place; or a desire to read scripture. I Have NIETHER. You cannot propose notions out of thin air and not defend theyre authenticity; which is exactly what you have done.



afterinfinity
I disagree. You are just unable to discern the difference.
Here are the three options I offered previously:
1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.

This is the fourth option that you provided in addition to the three above:
4. Either God does not exist and we invented IT or it exists within us and were not told so (point being? the grand joke played upon humanity) punchline delayed. I agree with all three of your assesments. Nothing makes any sense other than there is a reason why we are here and it escapes me.

Options 1 and 2 require the existence of a god, and are differentiated in that 1 constitutes willing abandonment and 2 constitutes unwilling abandonment. Option 3 allows for either an imagined god or a dead god. Your option, option 4, is redundant as it is essentially the same as my option 3.


No, none of your options included the fact we are possibly the creators (attempting to manefest an invisable godform idea) out of desperation therefore 4. is not redundant. You havent answered my question, which of the 4 is most likely? If 1. constitutes willing abandonment WHY? if 2. was a forced abandonment, by whom? 3. Allows for a figment of someones imagination, existing or not--proof not needed not even within a "God" at trial examination senario.
edit on 15-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2013 @ 03:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.

This point in time is the present.


2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.

Is there anything ever known besides 'the present' (that which is)? Belief in 'that which isn't' (past and future and other than 'what is') is what blinds one from seeing 'the present'.


3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.

God is 'that which is' - God is this moment that is actually appearing to exist as well as that which sees it.
Presence never ceases to exist but it is missed because of the obsession with 'next' and 'before'. The belief in time has got one lost.
God is not in the past or the future. Past and future are concepts arising in God.
God is all seeing, all knowing and ever present.
edit on 16-8-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2013 @ 07:35 PM
link   
Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
1) For reasons unknown, he has decided to cease his interactions with this world and has no intention of resuming at this point in time.

This point in time is the present.


2) Something more powerful than him has prevented further interactions with this world.

Is there anything ever known besides 'the present' (that which is)? Belief in 'that which isn't' (past and future and other than 'what is') is what blinds one from seeing 'the present'.


3) He doesn't exist. If he ever did exist, he no longer does.



itisnowagain
God is 'that which is' - God is this moment that is actually appearing to exist as well as that which sees it.
Presence never ceases to exist but it is missed because of the obsession with 'next' and 'before'. The belief in time has got one lost.God is not in the past or the future. Past and future are concepts arising in God.
God is all seeing, all knowing and ever present.


I would imagine you are speaking of GOD IN THE MOMENT, niether past or future. The moment part is instantaineous RECOGNITION. Proceedence/presidence IS what is missed in the moment, your ability to recognise yourself observing within a construct YOU (sitting in a chair, contemplating a sunset). Time only exists here as a blanket of security, whats for breakfast, when is the alarm set to wake up to; a 'thing to distract' keep busy managing, TIME, what is it exactly, something the human constructed to not have to recognise a greater force at work. Who would ever have thought that invention could be so detrimental to NATURAL PROCESSES (but so it is), nature has a clock that supersedes any humans and within that clock exists a God force/form.
edit on 16-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2013 @ 06:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I would imagine you are speaking of GOD IN THE MOMENT, niether past or future. The moment part is instantaineous RECOGNITION. Proceedence/presidence IS what is missed in the moment, your ability to recognise yourself observing within a construct YOU (sitting in a chair, contemplating a sunset). Time only exists here as a blanket of security, whats for breakfast, when is the alarm set to wake up to; a 'thing to distract' keep busy managing, TIME, what is it exactly, something the human constructed to not have to recognise a greater force at work. Who would ever have thought that invention could be so detrimental to NATURAL PROCESSES (but so it is), nature has a clock that supersedes any humans and within that clock exists a God force/form.
edit on 16-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


There is only ever what is happening. The forming is forming - it can form as words. But there is nothing separate from the form.
God is this - nothing and everything. God is the aware space in which all arises. In/on God concepts (words and ideas) are formed as well as colour, sound, taste and touch. Emptiness is forming.

Past and future are concepts that arise now. Presence is where it all happens - all ideas of past and future arise presently.

Time is what makes for insecurity. Time implies beginning and ending - fear happens when there is an idea that time will annihilate you. The idea of time is also the idea of birth and death.
Presence is not in time - and you may discover that you are always present. Presence is timelessly being this. Life is alive now not later or before.
edit on 17-8-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2013 @ 09:54 AM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


I already answered your question. Look back through my posts. Also, I don't care to argue semantics with you, so you're just going to have to let it go.



posted on Aug, 17 2013 @ 07:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
I would imagine you are speaking of GOD IN THE MOMENT, niether past or future. The moment part is instantaineous RECOGNITION. Proceedence/presidence IS what is missed in the moment, your ability to recognise yourself observing within a construct YOU (sitting in a chair, contemplating a sunset). Time only exists here as a blanket of security, whats for breakfast, when is the alarm set to wake up to; a 'thing to distract' keep busy managing, TIME, what is it exactly, something the human constructed to not have to recognise a greater force at work. Who would ever have thought that invention could be so detrimental to NATURAL PROCESSES (but so it is), nature has a clock that supersedes any humans and within that clock exists a God force/form.
edit on 16-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


There is only ever what is happening. The forming is forming - it can form as words. But there is nothing separate from the form.God is this - nothing and everything. God is the aware space in which all arises. In/on God concepts (words and ideas) are formed as well as colour, sound, taste and touch. Emptiness is forming.

Past and future are concepts that arise now. Presence is where it all happens - all ideas of past and future arise presently.

Time is what makes for insecurity. Time implies beginning and ending - fear happens when there is an idea that time will annihilate you. The idea of time is also the idea of birth and death.
Presence is not in time - and you may discover that you are always present. Presence is timelessly being this. Life is alive now not later or before.


What is happening is forming NOW. It can be words which then become ideaforms that can manifest and become static solid matter. I always knew that the universe was formed of 2 things, color and sound frequency that spectrum which are not solid matter, just frequency transmuted with some other gaseous elements. Where does God hide? It doesnt. IT IN YOUR FACE. I agree with time implying a beginning and an ending, TIME IS GOING TO ANNIHILATE you; what greater fear for the human to have to endure this idea "assured bodily death with no gaurantee that the eternal exists for the spirit (faith based)". Its ridiculous to imagine we are left in the dark without a manual to the HUMANBEING 101. Personally, time is falling away for me, days appointments, commitments..are not necessary anymore, some call it living on "native American Time" NO TIME other than the one you are living in the moment; and its a strangely beautiful realization (to understand not having to be BOUND BY LINEAR TIME CONSTRAINTS) that I am in charge of my in total present MOMENTS, and disregarding the past or future as memories or fruition of something not important anymore.
edit on 17-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2013 @ 07:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


I already answered your question. Look back through my posts. Also, I don't care to argue semantics with you, so you're just going to have to let it go.


You are frustrated. and if you mean this do not get back to me when in better humor.
edit on 17-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2013 @ 08:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
I would imagine you are speaking of GOD IN THE MOMENT, niether past or future. The moment part is instantaineous RECOGNITION. Proceedence/presidence IS what is missed in the moment, your ability to recognise yourself observing within a construct YOU (sitting in a chair, contemplating a sunset). Time only exists here as a blanket of security, whats for breakfast, when is the alarm set to wake up to; a 'thing to distract' keep busy managing, TIME, what is it exactly, something the human constructed to not have to recognise a greater force at work. Who would ever have thought that invention could be so detrimental to NATURAL PROCESSES (but so it is), nature has a clock that supersedes any humans and within that clock exists a God force/form.
edit on 16-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


There is only ever what is happening. The forming is forming - it can form as words. But there is nothing separate from the form.God is this - nothing and everything. God is the aware space in which all arises. In/on God concepts (words and ideas) are formed as well as colour, sound, taste and touch. Emptiness is forming.

Past and future are concepts that arise now. Presence is where it all happens - all ideas of past and future arise presently.

Time is what makes for insecurity. Time implies beginning and ending - fear happens when there is an idea that time will annihilate you. The idea of time is also the idea of birth and death.
Presence is not in time - and you may discover that you are always present. Presence is timelessly being this. Life is alive now not later or before.


What is happening is forming NOW. It can be words which then become ideaforms that can manifest and become static solid matter. I always knew that the universe was formed of 2 things, color and sound frequency that spectrum which are not solid matter, just frequency transmuted with some other gaseous elements. Where does God hide? It doesnt. IT IN YOUR FACE. I agree with time implying a beginning and an ending, what greater fear for the human to have to endure this idea "assured bodily death with no gaurantee that the eternal exists for the spirit (faith based)". Its ridiculous to imagine we are left in the dark without a manual to the HUMANBEING 101. Personally, time is falling away for me, days appointments, commitments..are not necessary anymore, some call it living on "native American Time" NO TIME other than the one you are living in the moment; and its a strangely beautiful realization (to understand not having to be BOUND BY LINEAR TIME CONSTRAINTS) that I am in charge of my in total present MOMENTS.
edit on 17-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Time is just an illusion, just like everything else in this world is illusory created by your mind and the collective mind (of all people). Time itself is not linear, it is spherical. Everything "happens" all at once. Did you know that by changing your present time can also change the past and therefore also change the future? That's why we all must live in the NOW, just like what Vethumanbeing said. Don't get attached to your past, nor should you worry about the future. Live in the moment and change your way of thinking. Your choices today will affect the future and modify the past. Don't ever think that you have no power over circumstances in life. In reality, you have full power over all things, including your destiny. It is all based on your mindset. Want to know how to be a true human being? Start to know that you have control over your life. Don't let your ego control you.
edit on 8/17/2013 by ctophil because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 14  15  16    18 >>

log in

join