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Nancy Pelosi: House Republicans Will Pass Immigration Reform ‘If They Ever Want to Win a President

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posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Astyanax
 


We are talking about two different issues. Legal and illegal immigrants. Thousands of people have lost their lives because of an illegal immigrant being here when they wern't supposed to be here in the first place.


Do you have any proof at all for this?




posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Astyanax
 


We are talking about two different issues. Legal and illegal immigrants. Thousands of people have lost their lives because of an illegal immigrant being here when they wern't supposed to be here in the first place.


Do you have any proof at all for this?




"One child was beheaded and the two others were nearly decapitated by two illegal aliens."
"Sean and his 5 year old daughter Sage were killed by a drunk illegal alien."
"Marine Cpl Brian Mathews and his girlfriend were killed by a drunk illegal mexican."
"Tracy Owens was a pregnant mom murdered by two illegal alines while crossing the street."
"Vanessa Hoera was a young single mom when she was bruatally raped and murdered by an illegal alien"

These are just some heart breaking stories and there are many, many more.


A lot of stories here as well
www.immigrationshumancost.org...



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 

That is not proof. That is a handful of cherry-picked stories (which may or may not be true) collected on an American anti-immigrant web site. Hardly an unbiased or reliable source.

Proof of your thesis would be evidence that criminal convictions among immigrants are higher than those among members of the general public. As we have seen, they are not higher but lower.

There is absolutely no support for the paranoid supposition you are promoting.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Night Star
 

That is not proof. That is a handful of cherry-picked stories (which may or may not be true) collected on an American anti-immigrant web site. Hardly an unbiased or reliable source.

Proof of your thesis would be evidence that criminal convictions among immigrants are higher than those among members of the general public. As we have seen, they are not higher but lower.

There is absolutely no support for the paranoid supposition you are promoting.


Well said and I share your comments about the website quoted.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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Some crime statistics from the FBI
www.freerepublic.com...

Even if crime rates are now down, too many of our citizens have lost their lives needlessly. One would be too many if it were a loved one of yours.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Astyanax
 


We are talking about two different issues. Legal and illegal immigrants. Thousands of people have lost their lives because of an illegal immigrant being here when they wern't supposed to be here in the first place.


Do you have any proof at all for this?


There's a lot of statistics. I will find some credible sources. It's not all murder either.

But one 'incident' comes to mind where several illegals killed thousands of people in the U.S.

Remember that 'incident' on September 11, 2001 ??



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


Here's another possible credible source;


WASHINGTON – The U.S. deported nearly 400,000 illegal immigrants last year, and an increasing number of them were convicted criminals, according to figures set for release Tuesday by the Department of Homeland Security.

Deportations have been on the rise for the past decade, and the 396,906 illegal immigrants deported in fiscal year 2011 is the highest number yet, according to the figures...................
[color=cyan]
Of the convicted criminals deported last year, 1,119 were convicted of homicide, 5,848 of sexual offenses, 44,653 of drug-related offenses and 35,927 of driving under the influence, according to the Homeland Security figures.



Most illegal immigrants deported last year were criminals


But then again, ALL people deported for illegal immigration are criminals by law.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Thanks for the sources. I was looking for just the deaths caused by illegals. But yeah, we also have pedophiles, thieves, gang members and what-not.

This immigration reform/amnesty will include the criminal illegals.




We were originally told this immigration bill would keep criminals out. That is patently false. S. 744 provides for the admission of criminal aliens into our country with up to three misdemeanor convictions. But once again, this provision can again be waived by DHS. Let's not forget that many misdemeanors are plea bargained down from felonies, and that crimes such as habitual drunken driving, gang-related offenses, stalking, domestic assault, identity theft and child abuse will not stop a criminal alien from being granted legal status.


www.seacoastonline.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Night Star
 

That is not proof. That is a handful of cherry-picked stories (which may or may not be true) collected on an American anti-immigrant web site. Hardly an unbiased or reliable source.

Proof of your thesis would be evidence that criminal convictions among immigrants are higher than those among members of the general public. As we have seen, they are not higher but lower.

There is absolutely no support for the paranoid supposition you are promoting.


Truth is, we have lost many citizens because of illegal immigrants. Do you really think people go around making these stories up? I'd love the see the reaction of a family member who has lost their precious loved one after your stating that it may or may not be true! Have you ever read a newspaper article, or spoken to a family member who has lost a loved one forever because of this?

I know someone who lost his only son. In neighboring towns teens were killed. The stories are out there but you usually only hear of them locally. Instead all we hear about in the MSM is reform and amnesty.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 

The statistics you posted are fake.

From the same page, further down:


I went to the URL linked in Post 1 and it says that these stats were published at PollPundit.com. I went to the web page where these stats were published and the statistics came "from a reader."

Sunday, November 12th, 2006
From a reader, "INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants"

>snip statistics<

"This information was provided by a reader. There are comments in the thread that are questioning the accuracy of this information. Another reader, provided a link for immigration statistical information, HERE."

("HERE" is www.immigrationcounters.com/.)

ImmigrationCounters.com refers you to www.immigrationcounters.com/datasource.html. No INS/FBI report is linked there. Maybe (and I stress maybe) the reader who posted at PoliPundit.com went to all the links listed there and compiled his stats from those different sources.

I searched at Google for "INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants" and came up with three websites. They are:

PoliPundit.com » INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants. 2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants. CRIME STATISTICS ..
polipundit.com/index.php?p=15968 - 28k - Nov 12, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages rss 2.0

... (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
CRIME STATISTICS 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. ...
polipundit.com/wp-rss2.php - 8k - Nov 12, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages

Slowplay.com » Sports
INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants. Polipundit - 3 hours ago. Drudge · DRUDGE RADIO LIVE SUNDAY NIGHT 10 PM ET TO 1 AM. ...
www.slowplay.com/categories/sports/ - 25k - Nov 12, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages

Since the INS doesn't exist anymore, I doubt if there is a report actually titled "INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants". I am no closer to finding a source for this than I was when I started out. Oh well!


*


reply to post by xuenchen
 

The statistics you posted are merely irrelevant. Obviously some illegal immigrants are criminals, and such would naturally form a high proportion of those deported. These figures say absolutely nothing about the prevalance of crime among immigrants, illegal or otherwise, relative to natives in the same socio-economic category.

Don't you get it? These are rumours and lies put about to cause panic among the natives. Immigrants have always made the best cirtizens. Unlike natives, they live in the countries they have chosen because they want to, not simply because they are born there. Obvious, really, when you think about it.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


Real people did die because of illegal immigration. These are not fabricated stories, but stories you can find in local newspapers or because of people you might know or whatever. I highly doubt you would look someone in the face who has lost a loved one and tell them otherwise. Wether it was 100 or a thousand or a million isn't the point. The point is that there have been needless deaths that could have been prevented had our immigration laws been enforced. That is the most important point of all.

I don't care about exact numbers. Many people have died that could have still been living their lives today. If that doesn't matter to you, that is your business. It matters a great deal to me and to those who were affected so tragically by it.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 





Don't you get it? These are rumours and lies put about to cause panic among the natives. Immigrants have always made the best cirtizens. Unlike natives, they live in the countries they have chosen because they want to, not simply because they are born there. Obvious, really, when you think about it.


They live in countries they have chosen because they 'want' to? Some yes. I have worked for many years with illegals and many of them had no interest whatsoever in becoming legal. Our money is worth a LOT more in their countries. Many come here to work, save and then return home. One lady I knew has a huge beautiful home now, another a big ranch.

I can hardly believe that you still deny that many illegals have caused deaths in our country. WOW! Obviously you have your thoughts and opinions but man that's cold!



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Astyanax
 


We are talking about two different issues. Legal and illegal immigrants. Thousands of people have lost their lives because of an illegal immigrant being here when they wern't supposed to be here in the first place.


Do you have any proof at all for this?


There's a lot of statistics. I will find some credible sources. It's not all murder either.

But one 'incident' comes to mind where several illegals killed thousands of people in the U.S.

Remember that 'incident' on September 11, 2001 ??




Not the same thing and you know it!



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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Republicans can easily win if they nominate Rand Paul or Ted Cruz. Guys that are principle conservatives/libertarian.

No way in hell would Rubio or Jeb Bush win, unless rigging is done which probably will happen.

But as history has shown. Jeb will be the next president.

The elites have to change faces or the masses will get piss having the same party destroy the country. They have to rotate it every now and then.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 

reply to post by xuenchen
 

The statistics you posted are merely irrelevant. Obviously some illegal immigrants are criminals, and such would naturally form a high proportion of those deported. These figures say absolutely nothing about the prevalance of crime among immigrants, illegal or otherwise, relative to natives in the same socio-economic category.

Don't you get it? These are rumours and lies put about to cause panic among the natives. Immigrants have always made the best cirtizens. Unlike natives, they live in the countries they have chosen because they want to, not simply because they are born there. Obvious, really, when you think about it.


Well ....

How 'bout YOU posting some 'genuine' statistics then ??

Obviously those inflated rumors and hyped up stats are just that.

But what about the 11 or 12 million illegals that are here ?

And how 'bout many of those that are committing crimes and don't get caught ?

Again, as long as you are fighting the numbers, then post some 'real' numbers.

Prove it wrong by finding the correct stats.

If you think 90,000 or so major crime 'illegal' criminals are peanuts, then think again.

Yes, immigration is good, but it must be 'Legal', and no criminals allowed period.

One murderer among the 'illegal' immigrants is one too many.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 

Not the same thing and you know it!


Oh it is the same thing.

Assuming 9/11 was as we know it, those 'illegal' immigrants came here on false pretenses.

Same as all 'illegal' immigrants right ?

Illegal is Illegal is Illegal.

IF the U.S. was enforcing the existing laws, then maybe things would be different.

New laws won't save the farm.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


The point is that there have been needless deaths that could have been prevented had our immigration laws been enforced. That is the most important point of all.


YES, that is exactly the point


All any 'new' laws have ever done is just re-kindle the same problems.

The politicians want votes and revenue. That's all.

They seem to have no remorse when it comes to the money/death ratios that they themselves create.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 05:12 AM
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Here's another good article...looks credible, and it focuses on percentages.



Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue

This study examines academic and government research on the question of immigrant crime. New government data indicate that immigrants have high rates of criminality, while older academic research found low rates. The overall picture of immigrants and crime remains confused due to a lack of good data and contrary information. However, the newer government data indicate that there are legitimate public safety reasons for local law enforcement to work with federal immigration authorities.




The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimates that immigrants (legal and illegal) comprise 20 percent of inmates in prisons and jails. The foreign-born are 15.4 percent of the nation’s adult population. However, DHS has not provided a detailed explanation of how the estimates were generated.


many more interesting points and statistics and tables.

Please read the article.

I think the government is suppressing higher numbers because they are not enforcing the current laws.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


Wether it was 100 or a thousand or a million isn't the point. The point is that there have been needless deaths that could have been prevented had our immigration laws been enforced.

Okay – so now you're backing away from the statistics because they don't support your case, and going for anecdotal evidence instead. Nothing could demonstrate more cleary that your views on this subject are biased and cannot be taken seriously.

We have also established that, despite your claims, immigrants are no more predisposed to crime than any other group – in fact, as the statistics you won't look at confirm, they are actually much less so.

Good. We're making progress.


I certainly agree that existing laws should be enforced as long as they are on the statute books. The point is that the laws are unjust – not just American laws, but immigration laws everywhere, in nearly every country.

*


reply to post by xuenchen
 


How 'bout YOU posting some 'genuine' statistics then ??

I already did. See my earlier posts.


edit on 19/7/13 by Astyanax because: of birds outnumbering stones.



posted on Jul, 20 2013 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


I know as a fact that too many citizens have lost their lives because of illegals. You Sir, may believe whatever you wish. There is no sense going back and forth over exact numbers when the main point was the needless loss of life.



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