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Originally posted by Sonny2
Hello all,
I have noticed that there is a lot of anti-islamic posts here so I decided to make a small research. I live in mostly catholic country and I can tell you most of the people here think that Muhammad was a butcher, killer, rapist etc... If you are one of those people this will suprise you.
This is the letter of prophet Muhammad to Christians at Mount Sinai Monastery.
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."
You can see more here st-katherine.net...
www.youtube.com...
"No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them."
Here Muhammad says that muslims would risk their lives to protect christians.
Christians who hate muslims are not real christians and muslims who hate christians are not muslims according to Muhammad's letter.
Peace
edit on 30-6-2013 by Sonny2 because: mistakeedit on 30-6-2013 by Sonny2 because: (no reason given)edit on 30-6-2013 by Sonny2 because: new YT link
Originally posted by Sonny2
Hello all,
I have noticed that there is a lot of anti-islamic posts here so I decided to make a small research. I live in mostly catholic country and I can tell you most of the people here think that Muhammad was a butcher, killer, rapist etc... If you are one of those people this will suprise you.
This is the letter of prophet Muhammad to Christians at Mount Sinai Monastery.
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."
You can see more here st-katherine.net...
www.youtube.com...
"No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them."
Here Muhammad says that muslims would risk their lives to protect christians.
Christians who hate muslims are not real christians and muslims who hate christians are not muslims according to Muhammad's letter.
Peace
edit on 30-6-2013 by Sonny2 because: mistakeedit on 30-6-2013 by Sonny2 because: (no reason given)edit on 30-6-2013 by Sonny2 because: new YT link
Originally posted by Kody27
Well then I guess nobody is a "real" Christian or a "real" Muslim. Actions speak louder than words, or letters.
Originally posted by Sonny2
Originally posted by Kody27
Well then I guess nobody is a "real" Christian or a "real" Muslim. Actions speak louder than words, or letters.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Most of the modern "muslims" and "christians' are bunch of ignorants claiming to follow Muhammad and Jesus but their actions and words have nothing to do with their religion, you can see that by reading those comments, look how many insults I recieved just because I said that Muhammad was peaceful and tolerant person. Its sad to see that people who lived thousands of years ago were actually more tolerant and less ignorant than people today.
Originally posted by DJMSN
reply to post by jiggerj
The same applies to some Christians whether they be preaching on Sunday and doing hookers during the rest of the week....or beating their wives for not being submissive....preaching against homosexuals but performing the same acts behind closed doors.
I have lived in a largely Muslim country (Turkey) and found that the people were the same...they did not punish those who break the law as harshly as we do in the Western Christian Countries and they loved to ask about Christianity and learn of our religious beliefs rather than take the word of someone else.
Those of usd who practice religion in every denomination seem to pick and choose how we live our pious lives often the opposite of what the religions have taught so do not mistake the actions of some followers of one religion as all...do not...it just does not hold water
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj
I want to point out that there's literally thousands and thousands of Muslims we have never seen on TV or the internet because they lead boring lives. Because they're not violent. How many judge Christians by what they see of westboro baptist? Is that right? Didn't think so. Just remember that the only reason you are hearing abut those crimes is because violence makes money. It sells papers and air time. Peace doesn't make money, so its kept quiet.
Originally posted by Kody27
Originally posted by Sonny2
Originally posted by Kody27
Well then I guess nobody is a "real" Christian or a "real" Muslim. Actions speak louder than words, or letters.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Most of the modern "muslims" and "christians' are bunch of ignorants claiming to follow Muhammad and Jesus but their actions and words have nothing to do with their religion, you can see that by reading those comments, look how many insults I recieved just because I said that Muhammad was peaceful and tolerant person. Its sad to see that people who lived thousands of years ago were actually more tolerant and less ignorant than people today.
It's true. I don't remember who said it but there's a quote that goes, "I like your Christ, just not your Christians." or something to that effect. I told this to a Christian once, that no Christian I ever met was like Christ. And he said nobody can be Christ. I said, not Christ himself, jackass, but LIKE Christ. Shouldn't a CHRISTian be somewhat LIKE Christ?
Obviously no human is going to have Christ-like powers, but there are attainable attributes that Christ supposedly had that humans could easily display , such as; being non-judgemental, forgiving, loving unconditionally, etc...
If Christians could simply exemplify at least those three attributes, I wouldn't be so displeased with the disease called religion. But, because we both know better, religious people tend to be the least unconditionally loving people. As a matter of fact, they require even MORE conditions to love.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. - John 14:21
Originally posted by ak1409
reply to post by jiggerj
so basically what you are trying to say is Islam is wrong just because its followers are wrong? with that line of thinking, i guess then Christianity and Judaism both are wrong as their followers are misinterpreting their own books too. You agree?
Originally posted by BlackManINC
Originally posted by Kody27
Originally posted by Sonny2
Originally posted by Kody27
Well then I guess nobody is a "real" Christian or a "real" Muslim. Actions speak louder than words, or letters.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Most of the modern "muslims" and "christians' are bunch of ignorants claiming to follow Muhammad and Jesus but their actions and words have nothing to do with their religion, you can see that by reading those comments, look how many insults I recieved just because I said that Muhammad was peaceful and tolerant person. Its sad to see that people who lived thousands of years ago were actually more tolerant and less ignorant than people today.
It's true. I don't remember who said it but there's a quote that goes, "I like your Christ, just not your Christians." or something to that effect. I told this to a Christian once, that no Christian I ever met was like Christ. And he said nobody can be Christ. I said, not Christ himself, jackass, but LIKE Christ. Shouldn't a CHRISTian be somewhat LIKE Christ?
Obviously no human is going to have Christ-like powers, but there are attainable attributes that Christ supposedly had that humans could easily display , such as; being non-judgemental, forgiving, loving unconditionally, etc...
If Christians could simply exemplify at least those three attributes, I wouldn't be so displeased with the disease called religion. But, because we both know better, religious people tend to be the least unconditionally loving people. As a matter of fact, they require even MORE conditions to love.
There is no such thing as "unconditional love". It never existed with God and it never existed with any human society no matter how much some people likes to fool themselves into thinking otherwise. That's not how the real world works. You gain salvation by grace received through faith. There is no universalism where all people are saved. Would you call the firebombing of Sodom And Gomorrah by God "unconditional love"? Of course no one in their right mind would ever say such a thing.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. - John 14:21edit on 1-7-2013 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ak1409
reply to post by jiggerj
so basically what you are trying to say is Islam is wrong just because its followers are wrong? with that line of thinking, i guess then Christianity and Judaism both are wrong as their followers are misinterpreting their own books too. You agree?
Why does the Catholic Church need billions and billions of dollars/ Euro's? Why do they hoard it? Same with the other powerful religions. the Mormons have billions, the Jew's have billions (is Jew offensive? Seems weird writing it like it's wrong). Muslims probably have billions too. Shouldn't these religions be spending all they take in to help the less fortunate
9-34. O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the (Jewish)
rabbis and the (Christian) monks
who devour the wealth of
mankind in falsehood, and
hinder (them) from the Way of
Allah. And those
who hoard up gold and silver and
spend it not in the Way of Allah, -
announce unto them a painful torment.
35. On the Day when that (Al- Kanz: money, gold and silver,
etc., the Zakat of which has not
been paid) will be heated in the
Fire of Hell and with it will be
branded their foreheads, their
flanks, and their backs, (and it will be said unto them):-"This is
the treasure which you hoarded
for yourselves. Now taste of
what you used to hoard."
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Sonny2
You should read the Quran before asking such a thing.
Screw that! No one needs to try to understand Islam. A man could preach peace and love all day long, but if he's cutting peoples' heads off, abusing his wife and honor killing his kids, well those actions speak loud and clear on how THAT man interprets his own holy texts.
Originally posted by ak1409
reply to post by jiggerj
so basically what you are trying to say is Islam is wrong just because its followers are wrong? with that line of thinking, i guess then Christianity and Judaism both are wrong as their followers are misinterpreting their own books too. You agree?