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E'04:Solidify our Research..

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posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:13 PM
This thread has been started in reference to: The giant conspiracy of our time: Election 2004, and the polarization of America

In an attempt to solidify our research, (and weed out the million "I'm in!" replies) I encourage people to only post research material in this thread. Avoid conflicts or debates.. start a new thread and link to the material in question if need be. Try not to spin this thread into a debate, its moreso a gathering place for us to post our research.

In a research project with as many people as we have participating, there needs to be a thread that is strictly researchable material.

I encourage any material, facts, theories, books, etc.

Please dont post unless you have something to add to the research

Now allow me to do my best to rehash the previous thread and gather the material in this thread..

Links provided: (will update periodically)

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I snoop around the LibertyForum board as well and I came across this thread that has a lot of relevant information:

Broward Machine Counts Backwards
Computer Loses More than 4,000 Early Votes
In one precinct, Bushs tally was supersized by a computer glitch
Sender, Berl, & Sons - These guys are a big topic to look at
Bar Graph Comparison of Paper Ballots v. Votefraud Machine
States with electronic voting machines gave Bush mysterious 5% advantage; bloggers do the math that broadcast networks fail to follow
More Votes Than Voters
E-Paper Voting Suit Dismissed in Florida
Some observations of the 2004 Election
The Ultimate Felony Against Democracy

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Read again... I said I doubt we're seeing all the typical neo-conservatives here.

Yes... there is "bias". But I also said my thoughts came after days of reading members responses to my posts and other threads to come to these conclusions which mirror in many ways aspects of "NWO" theory.


Constitutional "Reform" a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing
Don't let black-robed tyrants turn America into an atheist state!
Bush plans gay marriage ban
What We Bush Voters Share: In God We Trust
Religious leaders prepare demands on White House
Christian bloc demands say on social policy
Marines turn to God ahead of anticipated Fallujah battle.
George W. Bush Dumbed Down His Base To Total Cult Mentality

Highlight posts:

Originally posted by TrickmastertricK

Originally posted by edsinger
There is no conspiracy in Bush being elected, it is the will of the people.

This has nothing to do with Bush, but rather the Election Process in general. Step outside the Box and look at it as a whole. No one is looking to overturn the Election.

Originally posted by Simulacra
David Icke predicted this

Predicted, fortold, stated that the polarization of America will be great during the 2004 elections.

I just finished his 'Alice in Wonderland and 9/11'. In the beginning he states that the polarization of america is a tool by the NWO to control its people.

1:Create two sides of society: Good/Evil, Republican/Democrat, Christian/Non-Christain, Black/White, Liberal/Conservative, Conspiracist/Non-Conspiracist, Zionist/Anti-Zionist.

2:Make life really bad if you choose the 'other side': Always create conflict against the two groups. Always have opposing viewpoints. In other words, make the other side seem absolutely wrong while glorifying your half.

3:Watch our society seperate: Grounds for a civil war, creating our society into a 'police state'. Martial Law enforced giving control to the NWO.

America is no longer united. Calling half of america 'stupid' because they voted for 'the other guy' is not the way to get things accomplished.

Originally posted by Nerdling
BREAKING -- SUNDAY Nov. 7 2004: Freedom of Information requests at have unearthed two Ciber certification reports indicating that security and tamperability was NOT TESTED and that several state elections directors, a secretary of state, and computer consultant Dr. Britain Williams signed off on the report anyway, certifying it.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
If we don't have a conservative conspiracy to turn the U.S. into a theocracy... what exactly do we have?

Quite true. But let's not only look where we're being told to look.

We got to this fractured point over the past 30 years by chasing bones thrown in opposite directions while ignoring who's holding the leash.

I'm not saying Rev. Moon or any one man or group literally runs this "cabal of buddies" leading us down the primrose path, but it's not just the "neo-cons" or the "evangelicals." There's any number of ideologically friendly cohorts involved, none of which are entirely on the same page, but use and influence each other just the same.

At least three factions of this "Unification" movement are identifiable in the effort, now operating toward the same globalization goal, yet with very different motivations: political, religious and naked greed.

Though we are certainly headed toward a Theocratic revolution in the US, to call that the end goal is selling this revolution short. Understatements like that are equivalent to saying Wal-Mart has an eye for expansion, Bush's foreign policy is a bit aggressive and Baptists have a problem with homosexuality.

One rallying point of import to the success of these factions, is a conspiracy that's already been sold hook, line and sinker to the mindset of "mainstream" America. It goes back to the notion of "TV screens" and the so-called liberal conspiracy to control the dialogue and education of hearts and minds. Selling this idea, which they have since Nixon, has made it palatable for the extreme opposite to take hold right in front of our faces without so much as a whimper.

I'll go further to say that the "divide and conquer" strategy of the right was made easier by the cable revolution in the 70's and left-leaning identifiable broadcasters like Ted Turner. Whether CNN was ever biased or not is not the point. But that it existed served as proof enough that the right was being persecuted. Christians were being thrown to the lions. Morals were being perverted. And mainstream America was being indoctrinated toward a post 60's agenda to which a reactionary revolution seemed as natural as Australian Rupert Murdoch pitching unapologetic "alternatives" in broadcasting along with Rev. Moon's global newspaper coup. Neither of which seem natural, but that's the whole point. They do given the framing.

The story as it's been sold is intertwined in political mythologies too numerous to document in a run on sentence (try as I might), but the theme is we're the majority, we run everything, and we're not going to take it anymore. It's all connected from feelings of religious persecution to racial, gender and sexual, with the emphasis on everything being reversed. Affirmative Action reaction. Born again intolerance. "Feminazi and homosexual" agendas. The mistrust of anyone that could potentially be smarter, more educated, more worldly. And the working man's new found identification with billionaires and corporations (That one still kills me). As does the xenophobic hate of the rest of the world so intense we have no choice but to invade them.

All points to consider when looking for logical progressions in the movement far right. It's hard to study schizophrenia in an entire population, but we're at that point.

And I agree with the time frame of study. We've been moving here for 30 years. This election was as much about the continuing reaction to Vietnam protests and the sexual revolution as anything. And the political movie of the year wasn't F911 or even Stolen Honor. It was The Passion and almost universally that point continues to be missed.

When Priests and Ministers say voting for one candidate over another is a sin (something they never would have done 30 years ago), and people don't even take notice....well, consider us all properly indoctrinated to be passive as lambs.

Christ the shephard has returned, and he's got a global agenda.

Originally posted by Simulacra Need followup...
I've been getting some pretty interesting viewpoints from people overseas. There is a meeting in on my campus this tuesday about the election. An international panel is going to be there. I have a decent camera so I will try to videotape as much as I can, with interviews shortly after.

If I missed anything, u2u me and I'll add it. If you have additional infomation you wanted added to the first post, u2u me and I'll add it. If you have information or research you want discussed, post a reply.

[edit on 11/8/2004 by QuietSoul]

posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:34 PM

The Diebold Factor for lots of research especially by twitchy


Rise of the Reconstructionists on the nature of the people behind the companies.

I think the work in those threads adds a lot of information on this black box voting issue.


[edit on 11/8/2004 by Gools]

[edit on 8/4/2005 by Gools]

posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:21 AM
Compilation of problems reported in the media about the 2004 general election . . .

And here's some more I dug up:

Diebold Election Systems, which builds the AccuVote machines, both optical scan and touch-screen, has been parking files on an unprotected public Internet location. Thousands of files were available: election files, hardware and software specifications, program files, voting program patches.

Though the address is obscure, people found the FTP site using a simple Google search. A Global Election Systems web site, located at (Now Dead..) contains a list of links like "History," "Press Releases," "Staff" and -- amazingly -- "FTP."

The FTP button gave total access to anonymous users, allowing anyone to download and apparently, upload to the server. The FTP site contained no copyright statement, asked for no user name, put locks on no directories. Visitors from anywhere in the world could simply walk in the front door.

"Sometimes our customers use the FTP site to transfer their own files," explains Guy Lancaster, whose web site, says that he developed and maintained the intranet web site for Global Election Systems, now called Diebold Election Systems. "It has been up quite some years. It started when it was Global."

"People go there from counties, cities, sometimes there is stuff there for state certification boards, federal certification, a lot of test material gets passed around," Lancaster explains.


The AccuVote files, freely shared and sometimes snagged from the FTP and e-mailed to election workers and technicians, included hardware and software specifications, election results files, the vote-counting program itself, and "replacement files" for Diebold's GEMS vote-counting system and for the Windows software underlying the system. In fact, anyone with a modem could have hunkered over a computer to download, upload or slightly change and overwrite the files on Diebold's FTP site.

While not all of us use words like "FTP" and "program patch" around the house, the high tech community instantly understood the implications of this kind of file swapping.

"The ability to install patches or new software that wasn't certified has many risks, including the introduction of new bugs and more opportunities for tampering. It is even more risky if different patches can be installed at the last minute in particular jurisdictions," says David Dill, professor of computer science at Stanford University.

"This opens the possibility of customized tampering by people who know exactly which races they want to affect, or bugs that are even less likely to be caught because they only occur in a small number of locations," says Dill. "Of course, even if the certified code is frozen, it is easy to think of ways that undetectable back-doors could be installed in the software so that someone at the election site could choose the winner of the election." Dill has put out an urgent call for voting machine reform (, recently endorsed by 115 leading computer scientists. (Here's the list:

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Sources familiar with the site voiced concerns about many of the files. Unfortunately, I can't read a lick of code, but apparently computer enthusiasts have been surreptitiously downloading the Diebold files and examining them quietly. When the "Black Box Voting" whistleblower page wentlive recently, geek-reports began flowing.

One source who had seen the hardware manual called in with a terse question: "Why would we want a utility that can duplicate memory cards in optical scan voting machines? Are the cards serialized? Are they serialized internally? Is it hard-wired into the card?" Apparently something he'd read in those FTP files had gotten him all riled up about a memory card duplication utility.

According to a source familiar with Windows security issues, file names on the Diebold FTP site indicate that some AccuVote software runs on the Windows 95/98 platform. "No one who is seriously concerned about security would run an application on that platform," says David Allen, an accredited Microsoft systems engineer. Even Microsoft recommends using other platforms when security is at issue.

Our attention was drawn to a curiously named file named rob-georgia. Our first thought was that a Georgia technician must be named Rob. I asked various Diebold employees if anyone named Rob works at the company. Lancaster thought there might be a salesman in California with that name. A Diebold employee named Kerry Martin told me that there was no technician in Georgia named Rob.

Another source pointed out that one of the names on the Diebold FTP files, Kerry Martin, happens to be the same name as the poll worker who did press interviews after the flubbed Florida primary election in September 2002, when ES&S machines (Diebold's main competitor) did not operate properly.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:27 AM
Under siege by critics, Diebold is invoking the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to force website operators and ISPs to remove leaked memos -- which explain how anyone with access to [voting] machines could add or delete votes without detection -- from the Internet.

Even more damning, though, is an archive of Diebold E.S. internal software development discussions, proving that the company knows about the problems, yet would rather pretend they didn't exist than fix them, risking our free elections in the process.

This is where the University of Evansville comes in. I have provided this archive on the University Computer Science department server (here), available to the world, along with students from many other universities, as part of a campaign to keep the archive available.

Now, Diebold lawyers are sending "takedown requests", alleging copyright infringement, to the access providers of publicly available archives. U.E. has not received one yet, but I believe it soon will.

Regardless of the copyright status of these documents, the material falls under "fair use" guidelines:

1. The purpose and character of my use of the materials is to provide the public with access to documents which are critical to national public discourse.
2. The material in question is a collection of factual works
3. The material does not constitute a substantially expressive work, but is simply a collection of factual material.
4. There is no inherent market value to the works. Therefore, my reproduction can have no impact on the potential market for or value of the works.

thanks Zac Elliot

Copyright law provides an easy way out for the access provider of an accused -- not necessarily proven -- infringer, i.e. U.E., by simply disabling access to the archive. However, this would mean Diebold succeeding in yet another place in their strategy of stopping publication of this information.

U.E., please stand up for democracy and fight Diebold rather than give in to spurious copyright claims.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

I urge everyone to download these files for future reference before they are taken down.

Get the complete Diebold memo archive [7.4MB tar.bz2]
Get Diebold memo archive openable in Windows ZIP programs [11MB tar.gz]
Get the report on circumvention methods [PDF]

The files in question are some of 40,000 emails and memos stored on an obscure Diebold ftp site and, "amounted to a virtual handbook for vote-tampering," says author Bev Harris.

"They contained diagrams of remote communications setups, passwords, encryption keys, source code, user manuals, testing protocols, and simulators, as well as files loaded with votes and voting machine software."

More files and file links

Mods, if you wish for me to remove this post, u2u me

[edit on 11/9/2004 by QuietSoul]

posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 08:51 AM
Should I take the research that I posted on the "IM IN" thread and post it here? I had some very intresting things on T.R. Wilkey.

posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 09:05 AM
Thanks for the U2U QS.

I thought I would start with who is responsible for choosing the voting equipment and overseeing the implementation of said equipment for voting purposes. This mans name is Thomas R. Wilkey, and here is some info I found on him.

It appears that Thomas R. Wilkey, Executive Director, New York State Board of Elections, also on the Nased Systems/Ita Accreditation Board, has had his share of run ins with the people, and the people have filed suit against him and many other state government representatives, in Aug. of 1999.

Plaintiffs Disabled In Action of Metropolitan New York, Jovita Acosta, Tisheca Luckey and the United States appeal from judgments dated October 21, 1998 and February 23, 1999 (Frederic Block, J.) denying their motions for partial summary judgment and granting defendants' motion for partial summary judgment. Plaintiffs argued that defendants violated the National Voter Registration Act, 42 U.S.C. 1973gg et seq., by failing to designate as mandatory "voter registration agencies" approximately 1,600 public and nongovernmental hospitals, nursing homes, clinics, community-based organizations and other offices in New York City that assist individuals with the Medicaid application process. The district court concluded that these entities need not be so designated and granted partial summary judgment in favor of defendants. For the reasons stated below, the judgments of the district court are affirmed in part, reversed in part and remanded for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

It appears that Mr. Wilkey, and many other of his governmental partners have a habit of denying people their rights. At least the courts said so when this was overturned after the case was brought forth.

He is defiantly Republican. Here is legislation that was passed that shows his affiliation.

HB 279 - R. Thomas, R. Wilkey - Gray Cigarette Bill - Provides that no person shall sell, distribute, acquire, hold, own, possess in this state, or transport for sale or distribution in this state, or import or cause to be imported in this state any cigarettes, whose contents, packaging, manufacturing, labeling, marketing or distribution does not comply with federal laws.

I find it odd that this guy is in Ky legislature and also on NY board of elections committee. Not to mention his position with Nased Systems/Ita Accreditation Board.

Here is a quote from his testimony before the Committee on Science and Technology
United States House of Representatives, JUNE 24,2004.

Following the adoption of the standards in 1990, it became evident that States were not adopting the standards. Because the federal government was not interested in the selection of qualified Independent Testing Authorities, the standards were destined to lie on a shelf, collecting dust and the hard work of developing them would have been in vain
At that time NASED was formed, and at one of their earlier meetings, discussions took place to try to develop a program that would encourage member states to adopt the standards, select and qualify testing laboratories that would not only test equipment and software, but provide reports to states which needed them as a component of their own certification process.

A little later in his speech.

First, there is a misconception that NASED "certifies" voting systems. NASED's role is solely to review and qualify prospective ITA"s and provide for the review of reports by it's technical sub-committee, before they are sent to the vendors and ultimately to state ITA's and others designated by the states to receive and review same.

Sounds like a certification to me. Isnt recommending something the same as certifying something? If I recommend that you get a chocolate shake, I am certifying that I liked it and I think you would too.

I cant put my finger on it yet, but this guy is playing some part of this conspiracy. When I find more, Ill post it.

posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 03:05 PM
My first post concerned who was responsible for picking out voting machines. I thought that next, I would find some info on the machines in question.

Here is a link to some of the trouble call slips on the voting machines. Apparently, there is a HUGE problem with transmitting data. I wonder if they took into account for dropped packets?
You will need Adobe to read this. This is a few pages of direct scanned trouble calls.

Audit logs have been of great speculation as well. They were supposed to be secure by password protection. Aside from the fact that passwords are easily circumvented, these audit logs were beyond easy to change. Here is a link explaining in full detail just how easy it is to change the logs.

Something about these machine that would interest any coders here, the voting machines are programmed using VB. One of the simplest programming structures in the world. Oh, its also VERY easy to manipulate.

More about the Dibold machines.

"Computer programmer Jim March and activist Bev Harris have filed suit in California state court against Diebold under a whistle-blowing statue. This is another in a series of blows dealt to the ailing company. March and Harris allege that Diebold 'used uncertified hardware and software, and modems that may have allowed election results to be published online before polls closed.' They are seeking full reimbursement for all of the voting machines purchased in California. March and Harris could collect up to 30% of the reimbursement, under the whistle-blower statute. In an interesting turn, the two are requesting that the state of California join the lawsuit. State officials have spent millions on the paperless touch screen machines; Alameda County has spent at least $11 million alone."

Supporting link

Here is an incident report on the voting machines released on 11-8-04.

As of 7:00 am Pacific on Monday, November 8, we have 30,211 incidents recorded in EIRS, of which 1,500 are listed as a "Machine Problem". Our initial estimate is that 80% or more of the machine problems are e-voting touch screen machine problems for approximately 1,200 e-voting problems reported nationwide.

On Election Day itself, we have 20,192 incidents recorded in EIRS, of which 1,380 are listed as "Machine Problem." That means an initial estimate of approximately 1,103 e-voting touch screen machine problems reported nationwide on Election Day.

Here are a list of states that had problems.

States reporting the most incident reports were:

1. Pennsylvania (3633)
2. Florida (3500)
3. California (2635)
4. Ohio (2406)
5. New York (2378)
6. Texas (2251)
7. New Jersey (1455)
8. Illinois (1370)
9. Arizona (1110)
10. Colorado (1083)

On Election Day, the same states reported the most incidents:

1. Pennsylvania (2353)
2. Florida (1784)
3. New York (1779)
4. Ohio (1658)
5. California (1625)
6. Texas (1528)
7. Illinois (980)
8. New Jersey (973)
9. Arizona (913)
10. Colorado (753)

Machine Problem Reports

States reporting the most Machine Problem incident reports were:

1. Florida (216)
2. Pennsylvania (207)
3. New York (178)
4. Ohio (164)
5. California (102)
6. Illinois (79)
7. Texas (75)
8. Louisiana (55)
9. New Jersey (54)
10. New Mexico (47)

On Election Day, the same states reported the most Machine Problem incidents:

1. Pennsylvania (207)
2. New York (178)
3. Florida (164)
4. Ohio (162)
5. California (95)
6. Illinois (79)
7. Louisiana (54)
8. New Jersey (52)
9. Texas (51)
10. New Mexico (42)

Supporting link.

I think its quite obvious that these machines do not need to be used to vote with.

So far, I have been able to get two pieces to the puzzle. It would seem they are connected.

Any thoughts? ed. to shorten link

[edit on 5-8-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 12:20 PM
Conspiracy Theories Abound After Bush Victory
Web Sites, E-mails Conjure Phantom Voters, Invented Malfeasance

WASHINGTON, Nov. 9, 2004 -- There were minor voting irregularities on Election Day long lines, voting machine breakdowns, shortages of provisional ballots but some people are now leveling charges of voter fraud.

Doug Chapin, a nonpartisan election analyst, finds the claims to be baseless. "There were no problems that would lead me to believe that there were stolen elections or widespread fraud," he said.

"There was no overwhelming reason to cast doubt on the outcome of this election," seconded Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, the campaign manager for Al Gore's 2000 campaign. "George Bush got more votes this time."

Nevertheless, many people have devised various theories, including stories of voters in largely Democratic counties in Florida whose votes were changed for Bush, phantom voters in Ohio and exit polls showing John Kerry in the lead that were truer than the final tally. Off the record, many Democratic strategists dismiss such allegations, but they also know such resentment can be channeled for political use in the future.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


If all else fails, spin the truth!

posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:51 PM

Georgia's Secretary of State, Cathy Cox, could easily be considered the official Poster Girl for Diebold Election Systems, Inc.

Her photo appears on their website alongside a glowing quotation praising them to the skies. She also loaned them the Georgia State Seal, for that "official" look. And she is defending the implementation of Direct Record Electronic (DRE) voting machines, more commonly known as touch screen voting, in the face of overwhelming evidence of security flaws and unreliable performance.

After the 2000 election debacle, Georgia invited vendors to submit proposals to take over the state's voting system -- but those bids, and the deliberations and decisions of the committee in charge of recommendations, were intentianally [sic] exempt from Georgia's "Open Records" laws.

So how do we as citizens of Georgia know how Diebold was selected from the eight bidders?

We don't. What we do know is that Diebold's chief lobbyist in Georgia just happened to be Lewis Massey, former Secretary of State -- and the former boss of Cathy Cox.

There are serious reasons to believe that the 2002 election in Georgia was not legal, for several important reasons. First of all, according to SB 213, which was state law prior to November 2002, any election system purchased and used by the state of Georgia "shall be required to have an independent audit trail for each vote cast."

The Diebold machines provide none.

Cathy Cox is widely known to be the presumptive Democratic Party nominee for the Gubernatorial race in 2006 and, as such, is being sheltered and protected by state Democrats.

OK, so we know that the people who are supposed to be keeping our elections on the up-and-up are in bed with Diebold. We also know that the code was full of (deliberate?) holes, and was indeed hacked on at least one occasion.

In July, a team of four computer scientists at Johns Hopkins University and Rice University announced that they'd uncovered major security flaws in the machines used in Georgia's elections. "Our analysis shows that this voting system is far below even the most minimal security standards applicable in other contexts," the team wrote.

On Jan. 19, a team of computer scientists working with RABA Technologies set up a red-team exercise -- a one-day attempt to hack into Diebold machines configured as they would be on Election Day. They were successful. In a short time, the hackers managed to guess the passwords securing the voting system, allowing them to cast multiple ballots. They found that with a standard lock-pick set, they could inconspicuously open up each machine -- sometimes in less than 10 seconds -- and remove or attach various pieces of hardware, letting them erase or change electronic ballots. They concluded that Diebold's touch-screen machines contain "considerable security risks," and they suggested that Maryland put in place stringent safeguards before its March 2 primary, and that the state overhaul the system before the presidential election.

This article also describes the author's experience sitting with an "anti-Diebold tech expert":

While I sat at his computer, March helped me open a file containing actual results from a March 2002 primary election held in San Luis Obispo County, Calif. -- a file that March says would be accessible to anyone who worked in the county elections office on Election Day. Following March's direction, I changed the vote count with a few clicks. Then, he explained how to alter the "audit log," erasing all evidence that we'd tampered with the results. I saved the file. If it had been a real election, I would have been carrying out an electronic coup. It was a chilling realization.

These are the audit logs that the state of GA relies on to "tamper-proof" its elections. From the Kennesaw State University Center for Election Services's website:

The security features installed in the Georgia voting system protect against both terrorism and election fraud, but the main emphasis is on preventing election fraud.

Computer System Security Features: The computer portion of the election system contains features that facilitate overall security of the election system. Primary among these features is a comprehensive set of audit data. For transactions that occur on the system, a record is made of the nature of the transaction, the time of the transaction, and the person that initiated the transaction. This record is written to the audit log. If an incident occurs on the system, this audit log allows an investigator to reconstruct the sequence of events that occurred surrounding the incident.

The GA Sec. of State works hand in glove with the Kennesaw State University Center for Election Services to administer its elections.

Hope this is reasonably coherent; it's been a long day.

ed. to shorten link

[edit on 5-8-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 06:05 PM
I stumbled across this post digging through myATS..

I remember when it was all going down.. I wondered if it were rigged..

Now it seems everyone just shrugged it off.. was it ever disproven?

I'm not trying to rehash my old post, but it has a ton of info gathered by a ton of members in various threads that were popping up during the election.. I tried to gather it all into one post and get people to add to it as it was going down..

But I'm really serious here, I've been "out of the loop" here at ats for awhile and just getting back into discussion.. was the "voting fraud" ever debunked? Or did our apathetic short sighted minds put it away?

Anyhow, I really miss these types of discussions in RATS.. they were severly researched

Never could understand why you guys changed RATS's purpose.. it's almost never used now.. but still important to have

[edit on 7/1/2005 by QuietSoul]

posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 10:15 AM

Originally posted by QuietSoul
I stumbled across this post digging through myATS..

I remember when it was all going down.. I wondered if it were rigged..

Now it seems everyone just shrugged it off.. was it ever disproven?

I'm not trying to rehash my old post, but it has a ton of info gathered by a ton of members in various threads that were popping up during the election.. I tried to gather it all into one post and get people to add to it as it was going down..

But I'm really serious here, I've been "out of the loop" here at ats for awhile and just getting back into discussion.. was the "voting fraud" ever debunked? Or did our apathetic short sighted minds put it away?

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