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Jesus Died On the Cross For Our Sins.. WHERE is the logic?

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posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword
 


That link has already been provided on this page.

Why do you seem to fail at clicking links people provide for you in a discussion? You did this to me the other day when we were talking about shepherds.


Why do you behave do difficultly when asked to provide links, which is already required in the T&C's., whether or not you're quoting from an offsite or on site source? I'm not going to trace back through the thread looking for who posted what when just to find some, not so forthcoming, link! I don't play hide and seek with my arguments and I would expect that you wouldn't either, unless you have something to hide.

Do you click on all my links? Do you watch all the videos I post? I suspect not.



You do realize you quoted from a written work of Origen criticizing the teachings of CLESUS don't you?


Which is why it is unmistakable that they are discussing reincarnation.



edit on 30-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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if i understand the text correctly, there are at the very least, 3 gods involved in our creation: Anu, Enlil and Enki. This is all theoretical, based on my studies

Anu was the heavenly father of Enlil and Enki.
Enlil was in charge of the planet. He was the resident environmentalist.
Enki was in charge of creation and biology.

Enki is sometimes portrayed as Jehovah in the old testament and new testament, as well.

Enlil is sometimes portrayed as Jehovah in the old testament, talmud and koran.

Anu is portrayed as heavenly father (egyptian Amen) in all three. He is not the heavenly father of humans. He is the heavenly father of Enki and Enlil, this is why Jesus (Enki) prays to his heavenly father as if he were a separate entity.

Now the reason for Jesus' appearance, death and resurrection.

When Enki gave the adam race procreation, Enlil, who the planet belonged to, pitched a fit. He did not like the adam race. He was an environmentalist and didn't want humans breeding like rabbits on his planet. This individual is later referred to as the Accuser. He accuses humans before the throne of Anu, constantly. He gives humans nearly impossible laws to follow, demands our DNA be nerfed resulting in the shortening of our life spans, orders the flood and demands sacrifices.

Enki on the other hand, rescues the humans from the flood, gives the noah figure instructions on how to keep Enlil from killing him the moment he sees him by preparing him a nice hot meal (read sacrifice), he creates humans and other lifeforms, and gives them the ability to procreate. He later shows up as Jesus. Since he was the designer of the human genome, he felt responsible for the lowly station humans had been forced into by the owner of the planet, Enlil. He offered up his own dna (blood) as a template and provided direct access to him and Anu, in the form of the holy spirit and prayer. This action was to end Enlil's ownership of the planet, once and for all, so there would no longer be a need for sacrifice as it was Enlil who demanded sacrifices from the human race and if he was no longer in charge, he could no longer demand sacrifices.

Enlil tries to trick him into giving up his inheritance of the planet, by offering to just outright give it to him in exchange for his fealty. Since he was the one who demanded the sacrifice, Enlil knew there was only two options for Jesus: either die the miserable death of a human or live on as the owner of the planet but with no ultimate resolution for his creations. Enki refuses.

and there's my take on the reason why Jesus did what he did.


edit on 30-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by FlySolo
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


He didn't volunteer to be nailed to a cross.


His entire purpose was to come here to die for our sins, his death had to match the prophetic hallmarks of a Passover lamb, particularly the one sacrificed during the advent of the 10th plague in Egypt whose blood had to coat the posts and lintel of Hebrew homes, symbolizing Christ's blood being on the doors of our hearts. Like the Passover lamb he had to be without blemish (sinless) and his bones could not be broken and like the Highpriest would do when the sacrifice was complete he yelled out "It is finished". Jesus was not a Levite, he was ranked higher than the Levite priesthood because he is Melki-Tsedek the King of Righteousness. There was no man to intercede in heaven, so God had to become our intercessor himself. God had to become his own Highpriest to finish the job (John 8:56).
edit on 30-6-2013 by BlackGetsuga because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I'm not behaving difficultly, the link is already on the last page.


And yes, Origen is discussing reincarnation. Criticizing Clesus's position affirming the doctrine.
edit on 30-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by FreeThinkerIdealist
 



no, the logical and sensible thing is for an all powerful, all knowledgeable, omnipotent, timeless, supernatural being to have more compassion than humans, and be able to forgive without needing sacrifice (as in lambs, etc in old testament, and his only son in new testament).


That's rather remarkable. You see because Socrates clearly understood the dilemma involved with a Holy and just God forgiving sin without eternal consequence. But you stated it's an illogical approach. Now you're in essence claiming logical superiority to Socrates.

"It may be that the deity can forgive sins but I do not see how.". - Socrates


He knew well enough for a perfectly just and righteous God to forgive sin without eternal consequence it would deny His own nature of justice and a righteous God could never deny Himself or His own nature.
edit on 30-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGetsuga

Originally posted by FlySolo
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


He didn't volunteer to be nailed to a cross.


His entire purpose was to come here to die for our sins, his death had to match the prophetic hallmarks of a Passover lamb, particularly the one sacrificed during the advent of the 10th plague in Egypt whose blood had to coat the posts and lintel of Hebrew homes, symbolizing Christ's blood being on the doors of our hearts. Like the Passover lamb he had to be without blemish (sinless) and his bones could not be broken and like the Highpriest would do when the sacrifice was complete he yelled out "It is finished". Jesus was not a Levite, he was ranked higher than the Levite priesthood because he is Melki-Tsedek the King of Righteousness. There was no man to intercede in heaven, so God had to become our intercessor himself. God had to become his own Highpriest to finish the job (John 8:56).
edit on 30-6-2013 by BlackGetsuga because: (no reason given)


And He told Nicodemus and His disciples both that He would be crucified.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Interesting story. I have one issue with it: for being such powerful and intelligent beings, they were really not all that sophisticated when it came to critical thinking and problem solving, were they? From where I'm sitting, they're not too impressive at all. Sure, they could do some neat magic tricks and had some decent technical knowledge, but for all of that, they weren't very well developed in the psychological department.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by undo
 



when the way to the tree of life was blocked, it meant the dna for full body regeneration was nerfed, changed, locked up, removed. this is the same thing as the serpent losing its legs. the dna strands have to unzip to replicate and replication is needed in this instance for regeneration. so the dna for full body regeneration was either removed from the human genome or locked so the instructions for replication couldn't be read


And what happened when they ate the apple? There's an interesting interpretation which says that the tree represents the human brain, and the serpent represents the reptilian cortex, and the apple or fruit represents the pineal gland. Maybe the reptilian cortex naturally seeks to unlock the pineal gland in order to unleash its servicing properties, and after that, we make a choice: serve ourselves or serve others.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


So lemme get this straight, you think 3 Moai carved by men created everything?

LOL.

Those names you mention are nothing but idols men carved with their hands, worshipping their own toys. Tea parties with stone Ken and Barbie dolls.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGetsuga
reply to post by undo
 


So lemme get this straight, you think 3 Moai carved by men created everything?

LOL.

Those names you mention are nothing but idols men carved with their hands, worshipping their own toys. Tea parties with stone Ken and Barbie dolls.


according to genesis and the sumerian texts, they are not 3 idols carved by men, but rather, scientists of some galactic consequence. planets are ultimately owned by these type of entities. the wider universe is much more active with sentient life forms than you've been lead to believe, apparently.
edit on 30-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword
 


I'm not behaving difficultly, the link is already on the last page.


And yes, Origen is discussing reincarnation. Criticizing Clesus's position affirming the doctrine.
edit on 30-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


You'd have to have some fairly convoluted logic to deduce that from those quotes..



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by undo
 


Interesting story. I have one issue with it: for being such powerful and intelligent beings, they were really not all that sophisticated when it came to critical thinking and problem solving, were they? From where I'm sitting, they're not too impressive at all. Sure, they could do some neat magic tricks and had some decent technical knowledge, but for all of that, they weren't very well developed in the psychological department.


the sophistication appears to be the limitations of the writers, translators and readers.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
One more question: why doesn't anybody pray for Satan? If we're supposed to be loving and forgiving, why hasn't there been a single prayer for Satan? Surely if anyone would need it, it would be him.


Doesn't sound much like a loving God, or even a loving people ... does it.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by undo
 



the sophistication appears to be the limitations of the writers, translators and readers.


You mean: the writers didn't know what the hell they were writing about, the translators didn't care what they translated, and the readers got stuck with the end result. Wow. Sounds just like the Bible.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
And what happened when they ate the apple? There's an interesting interpretation which says that the tree represents the human brain, and the serpent represents the reptilian cortex, and the apple or fruit represents the pineal gland. Maybe the reptilian cortex naturally seeks to unlock the pineal gland in order to unleash its servicing properties, and after that, we make a choice: serve ourselves or serve others.


An interresting suggest ... please iterate further, and derive this thought. It would be interresting to read, where that would lead to.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by bjarneorn
 


Read Law of One, aka The Ra Material.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You mean: the writers didn't know what the hell they were writing about, the translators didn't care what they translated, and the readers got stuck with the end result. Wow. Sounds just like the Bible.


i'm not sure, but i don't think i deserve your anomosity.



edit on 30-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by TheIceQueen
 


It's all about love.

The Creator of the Matrix put himself into it to give us a lifeline out. A gift of love freely given.

Love does NOT obey the laws of thermal dynamics. It also does not obey Newtons laws of motion. Love is something when you give it away you end up getting more. Increase / negative entropy / Creation!

He gives us the free choice to follow him in love. A gift given with repayment in mind is not a gift but closer to a bribe. A gift given to repay is not a gift but a payment/tribute.

What has any man of value to the One that created it all? Only love.




This universe operates at his pleasure, and will cease to exist when he wishes. Do you want to end up in the recycle bin, or walk the streets of gold?



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword
 


I'm not behaving difficultly, the link is already on the last page.


And yes, Origen is discussing reincarnation. Criticizing Clesus's position affirming the doctrine.


You'd have to have some fairly convoluted logic to deduce that from those quotes..

That's because you are taking his quotes out of context.

I guess I was right about the problems that some people have with reading and comprehension -- I give you a link to a page with an extensive passage by Origen against reincarnation, and not only are you still going on about the exact opposite, but you're asking for a link to anything that says otherwise.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by undo
 



i'm not sure, but i don't think i deserve your anomosity.


It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the subject material.



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