Question/observation

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by makaveli3601


And of course there is flight JAL 1628 that encountered the massive UFO near Alaska, another example of a credible person (pilot) that lost his entire career because he went public and refused to go back on his story.

That pilot had two other incidents where he misidentifed lights as motherships or UFOs. Neither his navigator nor copilot saw the enormous mothership. In this 50+ minute sighting, radar data was intermittant and only a couple of minutes long. When the aircraft was directly in Fairbanks airspace, this gigantic "ship" was not picked up in their close-range radar.

I get tired of people claiming this was a great case. It wasn't. If you want to believe it was a UFO, that's what you'll make it out to be.

There is also a pretty convincing case that this was a cloud. post by Arbitrageur

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

Do you suffer from a mental illness?
Do you not have hobbies/interests that you feel are of value?
Do you not have friends?
Do you not have a family?

you do realize that this is a good example of psychological projection don't you?

reply to post by makaveli3601


After reading all the to and fro arguments between sceptics ( Like myself, an extreme sceptic. ) and believers,
I think the believers are missing the point, there is no TANGIBLE evidence to support the notion of aliens visiting planet earth, endless stories, poor quality photos / videos, eye witness accounts, etc; none of which are indisputable evidence of aliens visiting earth. As we all know humans make poor witnesses. It' s just the way we are. Our senses can fool us, fill in missing information or misinterpreting what we have seen....

There has been nothing we can touch or view, and say without question, " This is not manmade, or of this earth "

( When there is, I will do an " about face " and become a believer. I suspect I will die of old age first....)

That, to me would be indisputable evidence of extraterrestrial visitation, nothing less.

Lest we forget, there is a whole self perpetuating industry out there, making money out of gullible people and extraterrestrials supposedly visiting earth....that tells me everything....

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

Do you suffer from a mental illness?
Do you not have hobbies/interests that you feel are of value?
Do you not have friends?
Do you not have a family?

you do realize that this is a good example of psychological projection don't you?

I thought it was a psychological projection of swamp gas. lol

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by makaveli3601

 

After reading all the to and fro arguments between sceptics ( Like myself, an extreme sceptic. ) and believers,
I think the believers are missing the point, there is no TANGIBLE evidence to support the notion of aliens visiting planet earth, endless stories, poor quality photos / videos, eye witness accounts, etc; none of which are indisputable evidence of aliens visiting earth. As we all know humans make poor witnesses. It' s just the way we are. Our senses can fool us, fill in missing information or misinterpreting what we have seen....

There has been nothing we can touch or view, and say without question, " This is not manmade, or of this earth "

( When there is, I will do an " about face " and become a believer. I suspect I will die of old age first....)

That, to me would be indisputable evidence of extraterrestrial visitation, nothing less.

Lest we forget, there is a whole self perpetuating industry out there, making money out of gullible people and extraterrestrials supposedly visiting earth....that tells me everything....

Do you know what salt tastes like?

PROVE IT TO ME

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

If you think it is a waste of time to do a bit of research on this, why do you waste your time arguing with people on a subject that you think is a waste of time?

Do you suffer from a mental illness?
Do you not have hobbies/interests that you feel are of value?
Do you not have friends?
Do you not have a family?

Tell me, WHAT exactly there IS to research?
Over 70 years of modern interest in the phenomenon have given us WHAT?
So far the answer is akin to "Um, we don't know?"

If you're suggesting better brains than mine have written books on the subject and they've arrived at "We don't know", or, even worse, speculation presented as authoritative dispensary on the "might, maybe, possibly, could be, we believe" spectrum of analysis entirely out of alignment with objective and critical interrogative, then, what exactly is there in any of this volume of material of any real worth that I don't personally already possess as either inherent facility as tool for interrogation or as a product of experience and knowledge also already in my possession if not freely available as a research based resource already that will be of such grand and momentous benefit that will better frame my examination of the subject more so than these I already possess?

Tell me; how many of these extraordinarily remarkable people that wrote any of these books on the subject went to University to study UFOlogy where they themselves read through entire libraries of stories and "we don't know"? If these people required to read books on a subject that still has no answer just so they could examine the subject and still give no relevant answer beyond speculation, then, frankly, how could reading anything from them not be a waste of time?

If I want to read about speculation regarding ETH, Interdimensional angels and demons, and other new aged or "high strangeness" factors, I'll just go to a conspiracy theory website and read the STORIES there ...
Oh. Wait.
Yes, it would seem I'm doing exactly that.

If you've absolute proof, or want to throw an evening cocktail party where Greys, Reptilians, Nords, MIBS and others in the menagerie of mythology that've cropped up around this phenomenon are in attendance for open introduction, association, meet and greet, polite conversation, and even inquiry and debate with photo opportunities and gift bags out the door, by all means, PM and invite with the date and time and unambiguous proof that such an occasion will be as advertised, and I'll be on a flight out in no time.

I suspect, however, since no unambiguous confirmation is yet known, that unambiguous confirmation is yet to be had. In other words, regardless of what you think you think you think you know, you know nothing Jon Snow.

Edit: For the record "I don't know" is a fine conclusion I'm quite comfortable with. When people start telling you something IS without anything to back that up with conclusive unambiguous confirmation, then, that source should be considered questionable.

edit on 30-6-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Bloody hell.
I asked you a simple question and you gave me an essay of rubbish completely avoiding the question.

I actually agree with quite a few of your ideas, I just don't get how someone can invest quite a bit of time in a subject they feel is complete rubbish, sought of like an English teacher who has no appreciation for mathematics, yet feels he/she needs to lecture maths teachers that they are wasting they're time with it. Seems pointless.

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt
reply to post by Druscilla

 

So are you saying that implants removed from people studied to contain materials not found on earth is evidence to suggest Alien contact?

Further, do any of these so-called "implants exhibit any degree of technology, or are they simply just lumps of, essentially, junk metal/material?

Brief intro to implants.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

Answer me this;
What is the ONE consistent persistent point of data that is ALWAYS present with UFO sightings and/or claims of space alien contact?

People.
Yes.
People are interesting, especially their perceptions, and with people comes all that beautiful underlying psychology of belief, magical thinking, delusion, affirmation, rationalization, and a whole poop ton of cans of wonderful brain worms to look at and examine.

It's a little funny, but, the most successful branch of science when it comes to the examination of the UFO and space alien contact question is Psychology.
Isn't that interesting?
For some reason, you just can't have UFOs, or space aliens unless people are around to witness/report and later tell a STORY about it.
Sure, there's a microscopic minority of automatic camera caught questionable image/event/something X which usually turns out to be hoaxery or false positive, but, for the most part, you always require people.

The smart money isn't worried about examining UFOs, but, the people seeing them.
If only UFOs were as predictable and easy to find as the people claiming in abundance to have had 'experience(s)' often on multiple occasions.

Thus, you should be able to see now that there's much more to the subject of UFOs and space aliens than UFOs and space aliens; something that actually can be observed, questioned, and examined on a consistent basis.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

As to your brief intro into implants, well, I could retort with videos of witch doctors performing psychic surgery where they somehow miraculously manage to pull chicken entrails that are supposed to be cancers, or evil spirits out of someone's stomach without ever making an incision, but, I won't insult anyone's intelligence by doing so and just leave it up to those interested in looking it up themselves to do so.

Hmmm, ah, but Leir, hmm, yes, is there anything this guy can't do? He's filming the bridge of cruise ship UFOs in Turkey, and extracting implants?

He needs his own action figure, and yes, he's a doctor, just like Doctor Steven Greer, so, he's totally trustworthy.

Now, these implant extraction operations, well since chicken guts magically appearing without any incision isn't going to work too well in Westernized culture, Western medicine or at least the illusion of such, and a clinical environment with a bit of blood and actual invasive procedure (for show) is necessary to convince the gullible. Of course it's entirely legit, right?

The UFO business is a bigger business than one might think. People make a living off of it catering specifically and only to the UFO 'community'. Often enough they sell, um, UFO Books (funny how that keeps coming up) ... for those hard core serious researchers, yep, because no one who hasn't read, or given monetary support to the circus could ever have any kind of legitimacy, right?

Points being, you can heap and pile and spotlight any and every case you or anyone on the planet thinks of as significant representation as "evidence", and all anyone needs do is cast sufficient doubt on it for the "evidence" to essentially be inadmissible.

Clear Unambiguity is required. Everything else is essentially stories, and next to, if not worse than worthless, except to Psychology, and besides entertainment value, or value in dollars counted in revenue from those gullible enough to swallow without thinking, without asking questions, and without knowing how to ask the right questions.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

Answer me this;
What is the ONE consistent persistent point of data that is ALWAYS present with UFO sightings and/or claims of space alien contact?

People.
Yes.
People are interesting, especially their perceptions, and with people comes all that beautiful underlying psychology of belief, magical thinking, delusion, affirmation, rationalization, and a whole poop ton of cans of wonderful brain worms to look at and examine.

edit on 1-7-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

This also applies to everything including peer reviewed scientific journal articles.

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

Answer me this;
What is the ONE consistent persistent point of data that is ALWAYS present with UFO sightings and/or claims of space alien contact?

People.
Yes.
People are interesting, especially their perceptions, and with people comes all that beautiful underlying psychology of belief, magical thinking, delusion, affirmation, rationalization, and a whole poop ton of cans of wonderful brain worms to look at and examine.

edit on 1-7-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

This also applies to everything including peer reviewed scientific journal articles.

Absolutely. This is why we have the scientific method. If you can establish a consistant observation, you will have something to talk about. The consistant data in this case seems to have more to do with psychology than space aliens.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

Do you know what salt tastes like?

Prove it?

Go taste some salt. Next we will blind fold you and put something salty and something sweet. Unless you have brain damage, you will be able to distinguish them apart. Same is true for all people everywhere!

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

Answer me this;
What is the ONE consistent persistent point of data that is ALWAYS present with UFO sightings and/or claims of space alien contact?

People.
Yes.
People are interesting, especially their perceptions, and with people comes all that beautiful underlying psychology of belief, magical thinking, delusion, affirmation, rationalization, and a whole poop ton of cans of wonderful brain worms to look at and examine.

edit on 1-7-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

This also applies to everything including peer reviewed scientific journal articles.

Absolutely. This is why we have the scientific method. If you can establish a consistant observation, you will have something to talk about. The consistant data in this case seems to have more to do with psychology than space aliens.

Yeah a high percentage is psychological, but what about where military detect these aircraft on radar and then send jets to intercept the object which is also detected in flight on radar and also visually observed by the pilot, and then the pilot is then ordered to launch missiles at the object.
In this specific circumstance, is this psychological?

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


I'm not going to speak for anyone. But for me, I have interest in psychological and neurological conditions. This is a great place to observe these things. Humans are much more interesting than imaginary aliens.

Say these things are due to aliens. What can we say about them? We can only imagine what they are.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


There's nothing wrong with being a little skeptical these days with all the fakers tainting the pool of legit evidence. But people that close their mind off to everything are really in a sad existence. Skepticism to a degree has its place but I'm reminded of one of my favourite sayings. "To those who believe, no explanation is necessary. To those who do not, none will ever suffice."

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

Yeah a high percentage is psychological, but what about where military detect these aircraft on radar and then send jets to intercept the object which is also detected in flight on radar and also visually observed by the pilot, and then the pilot is then ordered to launch missiles at the object.
In this specific circumstance, is this psychological?

Which case are you talking about? This sounds more like a blending of cases which is how a good story is told. All circumstances are psychological. If you look at the link I posted about the JAL flight, you can see that it is not as cut and dry as people make them out to be. We are told that a pilot and his entire crew witnessed UFOs and had them tracked by ground radar and flight radar and visual confirmation too. Stories like this are extremely misleading. It didnt happen like that.

Yes, my personal belief is that these cases usually involve a series of events that lead to an interpritation. That jets are scrambled to investigate and even fire on something believed to be flying in restricted air space is to be expected. I don't know why they wouldn't. It doesn't mean something was actually there.

There are times when we hear things that are not really there.
How about if you think you hear footsteps in the middle of the night but you are almost sure it's something else? Do you call the police or go back to sleep? Do you at least grab a baseball bat?

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by UncleVinnys

 

I DO see and increasing acceptance, especially in the New Age community for channeled works coming from so-called spiritual entities.

That for me is where the subject goes "off-the-charts woo-woo crazy" , the New Age movement has more to do with Star Trek than Ufology .

And exactly how many New Age works have you read?

Oh, ZERO! Just what I thought.
If you don't find answers in people like Dolores Cannon or The Urantia Book, then you are limiting yourself to a very narrow world view.

Meanwhile, as for the scientists and the "hardware people" . . .
They are like the American Indians watching the first ships from Europe arrive.
They are arguing whether the ships are made of oak or pine wood.
What a meaningless discussion! Compare that to the earth-shaking changes
that are about to occur as the millions more "aliens" arrive!

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

Yeah a high percentage is psychological, but what about where military detect these aircraft on radar and then send jets to intercept the object which is also detected in flight on radar and also visually observed by the pilot, and then the pilot is then ordered to launch missiles at the object.
In this specific circumstance, is this psychological?

Which case are you talking about? This sounds more like a blending of cases which is how a good story is told.

This one. Need to confirm all the details

reply to post by UncleVinnys

And exactly how many New Age works have you read?
Oh, ZERO! Just what I thought.

Wow you're good !

If you don't find answers in people like Dolores Cannon or The Urantia Book, then you are limiting yourself to a very narrow world view.

You mean Dolores Cannon the past life regressionist ? , I used to believe in that bunk years ago so no I'm not limiting myself I'm just fed up with fairy tales and BS ... Which is what that is , she even claims to be in contact with Nostradamus

Meanwhile, as for the scientists and the "hardware people" . . . They are like the American Indians watching the first ships from Europe arrive. They are arguing whether the ships are made of oak or pine wood. What a meaningless discussion! Compare that to the earth-shaking changes that are about to occur as the millions more "aliens" arrive!

Nice speech but again fairy tales and bunk , when are these millions of Aliens arriving ?
As for The Urantia Book ...sorry I don't do religion .

A few more details.

and some more