Why being Gay IS a Natural thing

reply to post by GoldenVoyager

What about all these bisexual guys? Why are they not homo or hetero... why? because this whole thing is based on choice.

Nope. Not for me. I can choose to not have sex. I can choose to enter a relationship. I can choose who I enter a relationship with. I don't choose that I have the attractions. Can I explain the 'science behind it'? Nope. Nor do I really care to.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Well said, attraction can be to a certain person regardless of gender, and even within homosexuality or heterosexuality there is an attraction to a person or certain type of person for the individual.

I don't see how romantic or sexual attraction can be a choice.
Many people will pretty much know that they are heterosexual or homosexual, but true bisexuality has been rarely discussed.

The argument that sexuality is simply a choice is quite ironic coming from people who probably want to push heterosexuality as a norm.

They are in fact arguing that everybody is bisexual.

I know my straight friends are not gay, or will ever be interested in pursuing it.
I do have two bisexual friends, but they don't want a gay identity and have relationships with women.
By my experience openly bisexual men are still rare, and they tend to get judged from both sides unfairly.
So this is a very courageous position to take.

Straight/bisexual/gay are after all just the big boxes of sexuality that have political meaning.

reply to post by Christian Voice

Now you tell us what we can use in our arguments and what we cannot.

I never said that. I said that your issue with homosexuality has been revealed to be a general state of discontent with all of society, which hints at a more fundamental turmoil than I have the skill or inclination to confront.

Well, I have not used religion but again, I can most certainly quote several verses if you'd like.

I thought we agreed not to go there? Especially since we both know it won't do any good.

I have no problem with that, however I understand that using the Christian Bible as a defense towards people that do not believe in God is useless, that is why I don't use my faith as a basis for my defense. I don't have to.

Regardless of whether you use it consciously as a basis or not, it still affects your inclination to pick and choose what you have a bone with regarding homosexuality and society in general.

reply to post by halfoldman

I don't see how romantic or sexual attraction can be a choice.

I only know my internal world and how others describe theirs... and I very rarely hear someone claim theirs was choice. Most anti-gay heterosexuals when pushed to explain how their orientation was choice dodge the question. In my experience anyways.

The argument that sexuality is simply a choice is quite ironic coming from people who probably want to push heterosexuality as a norm.

They are in fact arguing that everybody is bisexual.

Exactly! Although I doubt they will concede to that.

Oftentimes people bring up scenarios where a gay person "turned straight". In my mind I am thinking maybe they were always bisexual. I dunno.

Personally I think there is something to the Kinsey Scale. Instead of straight, gay , bisexual, it falls on a spectrum. So there are people that are "fully" homosexual or "fully" heterosexual, but many (most?) place somewhere on a scale in between. Not the popular theory it seems.

By my experience openly bisexual men are still rare, and they tend to get judged from both sides unfairly.

This is definitely true. From both sides. On ATS it usually manifests as the orientation more or less being fake. Like it only amounts to confusion or experimentation. No doubt that occurs, but bisexuality is real.

Originally posted by spirited75


and why do we not see lesbian behavior in animals?

We do see this behavior as well..Homosexuality applies to Men and Women!!

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I will respond to this. If you or anyone else wants to be homosexual that is your business. However when you bring it into the public eye or flaunt it for everyone to see or try and change laws to suit you then you invite public opinion. If you ordered a different sandwich than me I could care less until you start making out with your sandwich in public and have the gall to get upset when people stare and whisper. Or you try and force your sandwich decision onto the rest of the world and try and force them to accept your sandwich. You are the one different, the rest of the world doesn't have to accept crap.

Are you better than your Homosexual equals?? We are your equals, since we are both citizens of the same country (If you are in the US). We BOTH deserve the same rights regardless of your opinion of my life. Just because you differ in OPINION means the rest of the world doesn't have to accept your crap!

Regardless if you like it or not...the MAJORITY speaks...and the MAJORITY says you are going to be on the wrong side on this in the history books!!

You cannot impede the rights of others based on your beliefs! Plain and simple!! We live in a free country!!

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Back to the topic at hand. I have not seen one legitimate argument on this thread yet for why homosexuality is a natural thing. We already determined that the whole "animals do it" argument is crap and holds no water, and the only other argument I have really seen is about population control. What a crock.

The "We" in your "We already determined that the whole "animals do it" argument is crap and holds no water,". Only states YOU disagree...and SOME of your ATS counterparts.

We are animals just the same as the other animals on this planet....we are just smarter! Do you get Goose Bumps??? That is an animal instinct! It warns you of danger. I am saying Homosexuality is comparable to Goose Bumps..they both have their purposes!!

And you stated you didn't see one legitimate argument for this thread but end with the population control aspect to the argument...and your response "What a Crock".

Is this your scientific opinion??

The Natural aspect of the argument is for this purpose:

The Anti-Homosexual groups like to point out being Homosexual is not natural since they cannot reproduce. My argument is Homosexuality is found in Nature, therefore it is by Natures/Gods design. Studies are all pointing towards Homosexuality is a natural occurring thing, just as Heterosexuality is.

Animals display homosexuality as an instinct, making it natural.

They are not socially conditioned into it.

This is the best proof to show being homosexual is a naturally occuring thing.

By taking self awareness out of the equation, what animals do is a good barometer for natural behaviour.

Briles

reply to post by Briles1207


I would actually say that that's proof that sexuality is not exclusively a procreative exercise. It has a deeper purpose than popping out babies.

I believe that the only animals in which that is the case are dolphins and bonobo's

But I take your point.

reply to post by Briles1207

I believe that the only animals in which that is the case are dolphins and bonobo's

More than just them. Every animal that engages in homosexual activity, or engages in any sort of sexual activity without the express purpose of procreating (this includes engaging in sexual activity during times in which the female is not particularly fertile) is an animal that does not necessarily engage in sexual behavior with a procreative intention.

Under this specification, there's a lot more than the two animals you just named. And I only say this in the interest of accuracy.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I would challenge any person claiming to have been born gay.

Were you born straight or did you choose to be straight? If it was a choice, as you seem to think homosexuality is, at what point in your life did you make that choice?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I understand.

So the two examples I gave were animals who have sex for pleasure (other than humans)

So other than pleasure and procreation, the only other reason you would have sex would be due to love.

Now is that emotion present in the animal kingdom?

reply to post by Briles1207

So other than pleasure and procreation, the only other reason you would have sex would be due to love.

Now is that emotion present in the animal kingdom?

Animals are more practical than humans. As such, if love does exist among them, it is a far more calculating form of it.

It smells natural. Like a flower on a spring day.

Originally posted by GoldenVoyager
I know many women who enjoy girls as they do boys. I guess there DNA forces them to like both and they have no choice with whom they have intercourse with. What about all these bisexual guys? Why are they not homo or hetero... why? because this whole thing is based on choice.

Really? I beg to completely differ on your point here. I never chose to be bisexual yet I am. I am wholeheartedly attracted to both men and women (and no I wasn't "conditioned" to be this way). Men (who by nature have a more fixed sexual preference) and women can actually be truly bisexual. How so? Studies pertaining to pupil dilation and sexual attraction, which we can all agree is a reaction to stimuli that isn't consciously controlled (see my OP below for more info).
reply to post by rainprincess64

reply to post by Spawn2001

It smells natural. Like a flower on a spring day.

*blushes*

Gosh. Thanks I recently switched shampoos. It's cucumber & grapefruit though

Any other observations you'd like to share with us about the topic matter?

Uhhhhh, I don't like this thread, I don't like you people, the gays. The religious rite and republicans don't like you either and they are gonna try there hardest to make sure you never get the right to marry. I said in my post that got removed marriage is a religious thing and do you want to be married in a church or a state building? You feel " oppressed" that you don't have all the same marriage legal benefits? Uhhhh I read almost every post on this thread of 32 pages except a few long ones last few pages.

Society has been around awhile and has a structure and everything. And most the world isn't gay and they call each other gay to make fun of each other. For thousands of years women had sex with men, and considered a girly effemine thing. Then these overly flamboyant males that are butt buddies, show up a few decades ago. Remember when A.I.D.S. started? How do you know that wasn't a gift from God for the homo sexual community? Burn from the inside out. Some people believe you shouldn't blur the line between gender ( bender) boys being girls and girls being boys. Hopefully this post won't be removed. All you people talking for pages about stupid crap, don't you think you're a puss& trying to talk about how normal and civil it should be for two men to have butt sex. And why don't we include these pervs in our country's laws and protect them, and treat them as equals. Invite them to thanksgiving dinner.

nevermind
2nd