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Why being Gay IS a Natural thing

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posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Yes gurl!,


my post wasn't wasn't directed towards you




posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Darth_Prime
 


Because after all if you were not born that way then you would have no excuse for living outside the norms of society. By believing you were born gay that eliminates any sort of personal responsibility and makes it perfectly alright in your eyes. I would challenge anyone claiming to be born gay. I can believe some may be born with a bit more unbalanced hormones making some men kinda feminine or some girls kinda masculine but somewhere along the way all the wrong things fell into place and you decided that all that meant you were gay. That is not correct. I know a few very feminine men who are married to women and are very happy. It is a life puzzle and all of the pieces come together in the wrong way. That is all.
I will share another story as I quite often do.
I had a female friend for years when I was a child. We grew up together. She was very pretty. We hung out all of the time. One day her father walked out on her and her mother and never returned. She suddenly started losing interest in hanging out with me until we didn't see each other any more. I ran into her a while back at a pet store and she was with her mother. She now was kinda chunky, had a shaved head and was dressed like a guy. She explained to me that she was married to a woman. We talked for a few minutes as she explained to me that she was born gay and had always been attracted to girls. I disagreed with her and said she was straight as an arrow until her father left and she got upset and said that her father never left her and that that was just who she always was. Her mother smacked her on the back of the head and told her that she knew damned good and well that her father left them and that she changed everything about herself and stopped trusting men at that point.
My point is that she convinced herself that she was born that way where as it was very clear why she was the way she was.
My niece is a very gorgeous woman and she just got out of a very abusive relationship with a man and has all of the sudden decided that she is gay and claims she was born this way. Funny, but he used to be her world and all things revolved around him. He broke her spirit and her heart and now she distrusts men entirely and claims she was born that way. She began seeing a therapist who is a lesbian. She began telling her she was born that was and that she should embrace it. She is engaged to her therapist now.
I can go on and on. The excuse of being born that way is a ruse and is being exploited by radical homosexuals hell bent on recruiting.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


I don't believe that qualifies as expertise, Christian Voice. That qualifies as wanting to come up with a reason to believe that being gay is not an irreversible condition because you would hate to think someone might be condemned to hell just for being who they are.

Granted, your stories make a lot of sense the way you tell them. But they are maybe 1% of the totality of homosexual testimony. That makes them the EXCEPTION. Have you ever thought of that?
edit on 16-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


No I haven't because believe it or not I don't hate anyone, not even homosexuals and I will engage in conversation about it with anyone, I get irate and a bit hard to take when people start attacking Christianity over it or start blaming everyone and everything but themselves. I personally know several people that are gay. Only a handful are close enough to be called friends. I have a friend from school that used to be a homosexual and he has a group through his Church in which he counsels homosexuals that desire it. I have been on quite a few luncheons in which homosexuals were sharing their stories. These along with the ones I personally know each paint a different picture but each can be broken down to a specific set of events that got them to the point of choosing homosexuality. Of everyone I have known that were homosexual only one ever showed signs in school. He was very boy like and indulged in most guy behavior until 10th grade and all of the sudden he began acting very feminine. I never had the chance to talk with him as he overdosed on drugs shortly after high school. None of the people I have known or talked to ever claimed to have had homosexual feelings at a very early age. Heck, I didn't have sexual feelings at all until I hit puberty. I would challenge any person claiming to have been born gay.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


A specific set of events that made them choose, or just made them aware?



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Made them choose. My niece and my friend were both very happy with males before the specific events and then formed a hatred for them. Hurt, pain, letdown, neglect, bullying can all be very strong guidances in life. People react very differently to the stimuli in their lives. My sister and I had our mother die when we were very small children and then endured horrible things in foster care and later with a horrible monster of a step mother. She committed suicide three years ago and I chose life. We both went through the same events but we both responded very differently to them. I miss her dearly. I tend to pick a lot. If I didn't like someone I just wouldn't bother with them but if I care for you I pick and kid. Those close to me know this and know it is picking and kidding. However others due to personal issues or past hurts sometimes cannot understand picking and take offense to everything. That is how they respond to hurts and pains. We are all different in how we see things and respond to things. My father calling me a sissy would be perceived as picking and I'd pick right back. Someone else might take offense and really start thinking, hey am I a sissy?
I can admit if a guy is an attractive or well built guy. That does not mean I am gay. Someone else may see an attractive guy and because of things from their past or words from their past they may begin questioning their sexuality. Different pieces of the puzzle coming together at all the wrong times.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 

Perhaps we should make a distinction between something being "natural" and being culturally "desirable".
This thread seems to focus on the question on whether homosexuality is "natural".
Whether anything "natural" is necessarily "good" is a different matter.
To eat is nature, but to cook is culture.
Similarly sexuality is natural, but channeling that nature is cultural.

Although I wouldn't know, but it may well be that pedophilia cannot be helped in some individuals.
Nowadays, at least in Western culture, for an adult to have sex with an underage person is criminal, and rightfully so.

However, as far as the sexual abuse of girls by heterosexual men goes, the "norm" of consent by age was quite recent (increasing the age of consent for girls from 12 was one of the first feminist projects), and some cults and cultures will quite openly argue that these "modern norms" don't apply to them today, and it hardly seems efficiently policed.

The most numerous non-consensual sex on the planet must surely be the misuse of girls by heterosexual men.
The second is probably the concubinage and rape of women and girls in war (which problematically - from the view of culture - also produces children, and "war children" have been terribly abused in some countries).

The only norm to prevent the exploitation of underage victims is to limit sex to consenting adults above a certain age.
Any other act, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual should be seen as criminal.

I had my first sexual encounter at 18 (with a man), and I was not coerced.
Many of my female friends were molested by men, and it was only later that I read that incest between fathers and daughters was a fairly striking part of the "Christian" white patriarchal power-structure in SA (although not common, the numbers were apparently higher than most places).

Personally I'm more interested in people around 40, because even now there are people coming out at a fairly late age.

There are various types of homosexuality, for example: exclusive, experimental, situational, transactional, and yes there is exploitative homosexuality and male rape (although ironically, gay men are more likely to be victims of male rape, for example, in prisons).

I'd consider myself an exclusively gay male, and that's really what the crux is about for me.
I have had no other choice in my attractions apart from a certain type of man.
I also showed the typically gender non-conformist play during childhood.
I think gay people have also vastly contributed to culture, and I'm not interested in recruiting people (which I don't think it is possible).
I also don't want to be celebrated, just a normal degree of acceptance and civility.

In structural terms, to make heterosexuality seem "good" and "natural" it needs the gay Other as "evil" and "unnatural", and hence homophobes will only focus on a bad stereotype of gay people.
So what we get is a binary of a life-long, always fertile, idyllic monogamous heterosexuality; versus bad gay people living in a moral cesspit.
Not that I blame such such groups, I mean what else do they have to make heterosexuality look good?

I also doubt the tiny exclusively gay minority will affect population growth.
The human population is steadily climbing.

This will lead to another catch 22: anti-gays will say that being gay is unnatural; but as soon as we show it in nature they will say yes, but nature is amoral.
Then they will say gay people don't procreate, and then we will show that many have families, and then we will be slammed for exposing children to same-sex relationships, and that we shouldn't get help from science in having kids.

So whatever we say, gay people are just wrong to some groups.

But then again, many of these groups are not considered a "norm" or healthy for kids either, and the fact that they cannot sensibly deal with homosexuality will lead to constant apostasy by gay young people, usually via urban gay enclaves or ghettos.

Far from recruiting kids, it seems limited resources have to deal with those thrown away by homophobic parents.
Many will be vulnerable, with no safe-sex education.
In SA we also have many gay refugees from homophobic countries, and there is little help from government.
Some were mutilated, while others faced attempted murder from their churches.

And this is so sad, in an age where there can be egalitarian same-sex relationships, and parents could become grandparents, some people still reject their gay kids.

edit on 16-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


While we are discussing naturalness, and by the way I do appreciate your very thought provoking comment just then, thank you. But while on naturalness and you bringing up statutory rape, if it is unnatural for a man to have sex with an underage girl then why do girls reach sexual maturity at ages 10 to 13? I am not attracted to young girls and I believe in this day and age mental maturity is very important as well and the ability to care for a child but that is not how we were designed.
What are your thoughts on this?



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Why kids under 18 are allowed and encouraged to have sex with others (via planned parenthood and the Obama administration, peers, media, social networking etc), and yet the day they reach 18 they are not allowed to engage in the behavior they were encouraged to enjoy is simply puzzling at best. 16m & 15f have sex, society says have fun try and be safe or just abort if you get pregnant, your parents do not even need to know. Yet, 18m & 17f have sex, 18 year old man goes to jail and is a sexual predator for life. Puzzling.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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Today, society is encouraging homosexual behavior and experimentation, so expect more people to choose the homosexual lifestyle, much easier.
edit on 16-7-2013 by GoldenVoyager because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


Exactly, although in Tennessee if you are over 18 you only commit statutory rape when you are at least 4 years older than the girl. Funny, it used to be illegal to be homosexual and completely legal to marry a 14 year old girl. That was commonplace back in the day but thousands of years later somehow the tides have turned. Some think we have become more enlightened somehow. I personally believe we have become a world full of irresponsible adult children. We are now our children's friends instead of parents, up is down, wrong is right. Crazy stuff.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


Well said. I agree. The world does not seem to be moving forward towards God and the truth, IMO. Also, California is not so kind with it's statutory rape charges, not that it matters nor that California does much right anyhow.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by GoldenVoyager
 


I think we should leave religion out of this, as it introduces a pointless argument that no one will win.
edit on 16-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 



Some think we have become more enlightened somehow. I personally believe we have become a world full of irresponsible adult children. We are now our children's friends instead of parents, up is down, wrong is right. Crazy stuff.


So now your problem is not homosexuality, but the entirety of social dynamics? I am beginning to rethink my ability to reason with your perspective...it seems your malcontent is not as easily grappled as I had imagined.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 

That's a very good question, although it might be going somewhat off topic, and even into taboo waters (at least in the West).

As far as I can say not all cultures are happy with the modern prescriptive norms.

I was at a meeting a while back where one woman was discussing her paper on teenage pregnancy, and how shocking it is in our wider area.

Surprisingly the response from the fem gender activists was that teenage pregnancy is not the problem, rather social stigma and lack of support are, and many successful women today were pregnant as teens!

I was a bit shocked, because a few nights before I'd seen a documentary on women in Nepal, and how getting pregnant too young was said to harm their bodies, and Western feminists want to curb this through education.

I realized that debates about reproduction can be very different across the global communities.
While Western feminists might see fighting for reproductive rights as access to contraception and abortion, post-colonial feminists (also Native Americans who were a part of sterilization campaigns) might also be fighting for freedom from forced sterilization, forced abortions and so forth.

That's not really an answer, but it shows that the issues are complex.
Especially in southern Africa many people were suspicious of condoms, and they believed that AIDS was a conspiracy to stop black people from having kids (although variations on that theme can be found in many places).

One thing I have noted is that Western people are encouraged to stay virgins by certain quasi-religious campaigns, even where the average age of marriage is 28!
Other sub-cultures like the Roma (who have been splashed all over reality TV lately) generally believe formal education for girls is a waste of time, and they should marry very young.
The function of women in these paradigms is to have children.

So far Western tolerance hasn't really bothered much with taking a global stance.
The law often turns a blind eye to cultural practices, or cannot intervene when communities close ranks.
I'm not saying all communities where women marry young, or become teen mothers are doing something illegal (some clearly are), but I realized it's not for me to judge their cultures.



edit on 16-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Now you tell us what we can use in our arguments and what we cannot. Well, I have not used religion but again, I can most certainly quote several verses if you'd like. I have no problem with that, however I understand that using the Christian Bible as a defense towards people that do not believe in God is useless, that is why I don't use my faith as a basis for my defense. I don't have to.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 



More food for thought. It has been educational discussing this with you and a few others here. I do hope I haven't offended you or others. I am off for now, going to celebrate my Wife's birthday and enjoy our evening.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:19 PM
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Happy birthday to your wife, Christian Voice.

AfterInfinity, I quite like your Avatar's name.

kind regards,
Golden



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 

No offense taken by me.
A bit of concern at a stage maybe, and a night or so ago I was wondering where this was headed, because they are not easy topics.
I'm sure the debates will continue, but have a good evening.
Happy Birthday to your wife!



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 



I made very solid points and you just did what you and most of the other homosexuals on here do, you side stepped them and refused to comment


Well now that's interesting.

You completely side-stepped my entire post to you. Just a few posts before you said that.
edit on 16-7-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



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