reply to post by Christian Voice
Perhaps we should make a distinction between something being "natural" and being culturally "desirable".
This thread seems to focus on the question on whether homosexuality is "natural".
Whether anything "natural" is necessarily "good" is a different matter.
To eat is nature, but to cook is culture.
Similarly sexuality is natural, but channeling that nature is cultural.
Although I wouldn't know, but it may well be that pedophilia cannot be helped in some individuals.
Nowadays, at least in Western culture, for an adult to have sex with an underage person is criminal, and rightfully so.
However, as far as the sexual abuse of girls by heterosexual men goes, the "norm" of consent by age was quite recent (increasing the age of consent
for girls from 12 was one of the first feminist projects), and some cults and cultures will quite openly argue that these "modern norms" don't apply
to them today, and it hardly seems efficiently policed.
The most numerous non-consensual sex on the planet must surely be the misuse of girls by heterosexual men.
The second is probably the concubinage and rape of women and girls in war (which problematically - from the view of culture - also produces children,
and "war children" have been terribly abused in some countries).
The only norm to prevent the exploitation of underage victims is to limit sex to consenting adults above a certain age.
Any other act, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual should be seen as criminal.
I had my first sexual encounter at 18 (with a man), and I was not coerced.
Many of my female friends were molested by men, and it was only later that I read that incest between fathers and daughters was a fairly striking part
of the "Christian" white patriarchal power-structure in SA (although not common, the numbers were apparently higher than most places).
Personally I'm more interested in people around 40, because even now there are people coming out at a fairly late age.
There are various types of homosexuality, for example: exclusive, experimental, situational, transactional, and yes there is exploitative
homosexuality and male rape (although ironically, gay men are more likely to be victims of male rape, for example, in prisons).
I'd consider myself an exclusively gay male, and that's really what the crux is about for me.
I have had no other choice in my attractions apart from a certain type of man.
I also showed the typically gender non-conformist play during childhood.
I think gay people have also vastly contributed to culture, and I'm not interested in recruiting people (which I don't think it is possible).
I also don't want to be celebrated, just a normal degree of acceptance and civility.
In structural terms, to make heterosexuality seem "good" and "natural" it needs the gay Other as "evil" and "unnatural", and hence homophobes will
only focus on a bad stereotype of gay people.
So what we get is a binary of a life-long, always fertile, idyllic monogamous heterosexuality; versus bad gay people living in a moral cesspit.
Not that I blame such such groups, I mean what else do they have to make heterosexuality look good?
I also doubt the tiny exclusively gay minority will affect population growth.
The human population is steadily climbing.
This will lead to another catch 22: anti-gays will say that being gay is unnatural; but as soon as we show it in nature they will say yes, but nature
Then they will say gay people don't procreate, and then we will show that many have families, and then we will be slammed for exposing children to
same-sex relationships, and that we shouldn't get help from science in having kids.
So whatever we say, gay people are just wrong to some groups.
But then again, many of these groups are not considered a "norm" or healthy for kids either, and the fact that they cannot sensibly deal with
homosexuality will lead to constant apostasy by gay young people, usually via urban gay enclaves or ghettos.
Far from recruiting kids, it seems limited resources have to deal with those thrown away by homophobic parents.
Many will be vulnerable, with no safe-sex education.
In SA we also have many gay refugees from homophobic countries, and there is little help from government.
Some were mutilated, while others faced attempted murder from their churches.
And this is so sad, in an age where there can be egalitarian same-sex relationships, and parents could become grandparents, some people still reject
their gay kids.
edit on 16-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)