Why being Gay IS a Natural thing, page 3

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:24 AM

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reply to post by Djayed

Why I understand your point....but people use Homosexual isn't natural so therefore it should not be accepted as an argument. But when you find certain things in Nature, like homosexuality...meaning animals will partner with the same sex for life like a flamingo...it proves you can find it in nature....we a all bound by the laws of nature like it or not...

Why are you still trying to use that argument... I've already pointed out why it's not natural just because it's found in nature. You're ignoring what people are bringing to you because you are stuborn to the idea that you're right and facts are wrong...

Lot's of things are found in nature... Doesn't mean it should be natural to man. You should really look at the messed up # in nature.. if you applied that to mankind, then we would not exist.

Stop avoiding the obvious and actually look at the arguments brought to you and try to counter them with logic and facts... You have not and cannot.

theRhenn

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:26 AM

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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Djayed

I know I am one of the first to come to the defense of homosexuality here. But I'm beginning to realize (finally) that it does no good to try to convince a bigoted segment of society that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. People are going to believe what they believe. And if they believe they should have a say in how other people live their lives (anti-freedom), there's not much to be done about it.

I have RARELY seen someone change their mind once they have their opinions about gay people and homosexuality. I say rarely, because I have seen it happen, but it takes an open mind... which is hard to come by in the anti-gay crowd.

So, yes, homosexuality is natural. As natural and beautiful as heterosexuality, left-handedness, blue eyes and baldness. But to try to convince those whose minds are already made up is a long, tough road.

I'm not saying I'm done discussing, arguing and debating about it, but I do so with lower expectations. You don't have to "sell yourself" or convince anyone that you're OK. Most of us know that already.
The times are changing and it's a wonderful thing.
Let the haters fall back and grumble about it.

I could say the same about homosexuals. The facts are there yet you throw them off and ignore them.

I say, whatever.. do what you want. Just stop crying about it and stop trying to turn me to accept it. Unless you can come up with a valid argument what it's normal, I'm sorry, I wont believe it is. I'm a logical guy. Show me proof or just shutup about it already. Generally speaking, of course.

Wrabbit2000

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:28 AM

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I personally find the numbers very interesting in this whole thing. First, I do tend to agree that Homosexuality is a naturally occurring trait among a small % of people. Natural and Normal are different things because Normal is a human perception defined by society which changes over time.

Prior to looking into this for a different thread awhile back. I'd have guessed 15-20%. I'd have been average among Americans who were polled......

What Percentage of the Population Is Gay?

...but I'd have also been very wrong in that number too. It's smaller than that. Which was surprising.

An estimated 9 million Americans -- or nearly 4 percent of the total population -- say they identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, according to a new report released this week from the Williams Institute, a think-tank devoted to LGBT research at UCLA.

Bisexuals make up slightly more than half that group, 1.8 percent of the total U.S. population, and they are substantially more likely to be women than men.

Source

Now of course, being a super-minority doesn't make intolerance, hate or discrimination proper and some of what is happening now has been a long time in coming....some? not so much. Opinions vary. I do think it does the overall gay community no good for how the more rabid activist segment pushes as if it were a large % of society and not a tiny % of it. Everything in moderation and some of that has gone way too far on the "in your face" approach. Just as some are naturally attracted by it, some are naturally repulsed by it. Natural in both examples. Respect seems demanded for one and change for the other. The roles have simply come to reverse....

edit on 29-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

theRhenn

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:31 AM

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Originally posted by Djayed
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Thank you! I live in Georgia and feel like I'm a second class citizen. I have been in a eight year relationship and cannot get married. I support my partner since they were laid off over 3 years ago...I am not able to add him to my work insurance...I am not able to claim him as a dependent....I am not able to account for him on my taxes...I can get fired for being a homosexual.....I can get beat up walking out of a club....I get called things like sinner, unnatural, immoral, among the list of not so safe words for ATS....so it gets to a point where I am tired...tired of not having the same rights as everyone in a country tha claims to be free.

Thank you for your kind words and support....I always see you in the discussion for equal rights and thank you for your opinion and what you contribute to the discussion!

How do you think I feel when people park in handicap spots that can still walk without a problem.. Or when people can use the big stalls that are not for me... Get primary seating because they have more money..

It's life.. it happens. Stop persuing the things that are not yours and you wont have a problem with it. If you want to turn over your property or get tax breaks because of something that mimics marriage, then write your congressman, but stop taking away from something that wasn't meant for you. Make up your own and go with it.

Accept that people dont agree with you. Man, I sure wish everyone agreed with me! But it wont happen.

Understand the term hipocrite for what it's worth... If you really do.. You would have never made this thread. Hint: You got to go DEEP with it. Thought deep.. Disect it.. know it. live it.

seabag

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:32 AM

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reply to post by Djayed

Whatever makes you feel better, OP!

If homosexuality was natural it wouldn’t be taboo, would it? Homosexuality elicits an innate fear in humans…it’s part of our survival mechanism as a species. How is it that a little child is afraid of things even though they don’t know what they are? How is it that young birds know not to fall out of the nest?

Fear is adaptive because it protects us. More importantly, it protected our ancestors. Our distant ancestors who were afraid of heights didn’t fall off cliffs, those that feared wild animals didn’t get eaten by a tiger, those that ran the fastest left the rest behind---and they survived. So, it is natural to be afraid of many of the things that we are afraid of. It’s natural to have a fear of water---especially if you are a child---because you can drown.

In one study, 77 % of mothers of children who were afraid of water said their children were frightened the very first time they were confronted with a pool or lake water. In fact, the farther away from the ocean you live, the more likely you are to fear water.

www.psychologytoday.com...

I would suggest the same psychology is at play with regard to homosexuality. If it wasn’t natural to avoid it then we wouldn’t have survived as a species.

theRhenn

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:32 AM

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Originally posted by Rodinus

Homosexual behaviors are acts.

So, Heterosexual "behaviour" is not an act?

Why use the word "behaviour" for wording sexuality that people are born with? (Natural)

And why use the word "act"?

Kindest respects

Rodinus
edit on 29-6-2013 by Rodinus because: Word added

Yes.. They all are.. Why use it? Because it is...

Benevolent Heretic

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital

Originally posted by daaskapital
Infertility cannot be compared to homosexuality. They are two different things.

Oh, well, isn't that convenient? "That's different". Good answer.

While it is natural in specific circumstances, it is not normal in the fact that two men cannot reproduce and two women cannot reproduce.

That is a scientific fact. Even if they're straight, two men cannot reproduce! You are avoiding answering my questions.

I respect homosexual people as i would anyone else. I have stated what i have stated because it is the observable truth.

Well, then why don't you have the guts to call ME "unnatural" or "abnormal". Since, like a gay couple, I cannot reproduce? I know... "That's different", right?

No i do not, mostly because the conversation has never really come up.

Bring it up with your gay friends. If it's not an insult, I challenge you to ask them, "Hey guys, I think homosexuality is not normal or natural." Let us know what they say.

ThaLoccster

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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The question people, especially heterosexual people need to ask is When did you decide to like the opposite sex?

I'm sure you all had a day or week or how ever long it took where you sat down and basically made a chart on the pros of cons of penis vs. vagina, breasts vs. testicles. I'm sure you struggled over the hard choices, and ultimately decided that your choice was the right one for you....right?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say probably not. It is doubtful anyone here can truthfully claim they sat down and decided they would direct their attractions towards women/men. For basically anyone this was something that just came natural, you were just attracted to what you were attracted to. For some, there are events in their lives (especially during their early development) that affect what direction those attractions may take, but I believe on the whole the overall logic is sound.

Ask yourself, and your friends, when did you decide to be attracted to whatever sex you are attracted to, and I'm pretty sure it won't take you long to come to the realization that you did not decide. It was just natural.
edit on 6/29/2013 by ThaLoccster because: spelling

defcon5

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by theRhenn

Read the Christian bible from the 1500's it might change your opinions of those verses you are referencing the all mighty is against homosexuality....most of them originally meant evil acts....

The term homosexuality is a 19th century created term

Show me where "homosexuality" is in the bible? Man shall not lie with man as with women is more specific...
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

His point is actually very valid...
Homosexuality is a clinical term that was made in the modern age, there was no name (at least none I know of) for it back in the original Hebrew, or Latin. However, this was very much going on by the time that much of the Bible was penned. It was a very common practice among the Ancient Greeks and the Romans. There were specific religions (I believe Roman) in which at certain times the male priests would dress as women and have sex as part of their religious ceremonies. These things are clearly mentioned in the Bible.

However that said, again, those who follow the teachings of the Bible are free to disagree with such things, but they should not persecute those who choose to engage in them. Remember, even as a Christian, you are a sinner, and pointing out another’s sins is hypocritical. Sin is sin, regardless of what the sin actually is.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 6/29/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

Benevolent Heretic

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by defcon5

I haven't starred a post of yours in a long time.

Also, if you look at the original Aramaic and Hebrew, the verse Rhenn quoted actually says, do not sleep with a man in the same bed as you sleep with a woman (rough translation). The bible is an interesting book, but it's followers sometimes forget the important stuff.

Djayed

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by theRhenn
Identical -- or monozygotic -- twins form when a single fertilized egg splits in two after conception. Because they form from a single zygote, the two individuals will have the same genetic makeup. Their DNA is virtually indistinguishable.

This is textbook... Go back to your science books and reread.

I am sorry it is you that is confused about how gentics work....I spend my free time reading science articles...that is a misconception.

www.nytimes.com...

You're confusing something that is with something that's chosen. Homosexuality is not a race. You cannot compare it as such. You are bias because you are homosexual.

Funny you should bring up about the studies of the amount of women around homosexuals... do you think the "woman" aspect might rub off on gays a lil? If you're always around a woman with no male role model, dont you think that this person would take after women more, even if they're not gay? I would think so.. It's a DUH! factor. It has nothing to do with the amount of women geneticaly in a family.. the amount of estrogen.. Duh!

1. Not all gays are men
2. you are using a stereo type, and unfortunately when a community gets pushed into a stereotype they tend to embrace it. But Not all gay men are Feminine a lot act just like Other men...myself included

Why do you think that people are so up in arms about children having homosexual parents as rolemodels?

Ever hear of the kids that loved their uncles enough to walk in their footsteps? Don't you know that children from divorced parents are more likely to do the same? Abusive fathers tend to make abusive sons and have daughters that unconciously look for abusive partners...

duh! duh!

That's just plain being ignorant...nothing shows that gay people's kids grow up more inclined to be gay....all studies show kids in homosexual house holds are all quite healthy and kids grow up with the same chance as being gay as in a straight house hold.

Think about this for a minute. Step outside your gayness and look at it from a different perspective. I've tried to do the same the other way around and I just find it based on bias without any logical basis.

Step outside my "Gayness"?? Wow , that's all I have to say. My world does not revolve around gayness....thanks

I might add to the woman vs homo argument. I found that in my whole family, and that's a lot of people
The studies show when there are a high number of women in the immediate family....a lot of sisters for example...will have a higher likely hood of having a gay child.
edit on 6/29/2013 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

theRhenn

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Djayed
reply to post by theRhenn

Proposition 1: NT
Proposition 2: NT
Proposition 3: Two of the three passages that possibly refer to homosexuality are simply more-or-less miscellaneous catalogs of behaviors that are regarded as unacceptable, with no particular emphasis placed on any individual item in the list.
1 Corinthians 6:9–10 says that certain types of people “will not inherit the kingdom of God.” The list of such people begins with fornicators, idolaters, and adulterers, and it ends with thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Near the middle—between adulterers and thieves—are the two Greek words translated in the New Revised Standard Version as “male prostitutes” (that is, homosexual male prostitutes) and “sodomites.” But no special emphasis is placed on these people; they are simply listed along with the others. Similarly, 1 Timothy 1:8–11 says that the law was given not for good people but for bad people, and it then provides a list, giving representative examples of who these “bad people” might be. Included in the list—this time near the end but again without any special emphasis—is the Greek word translated in the New Revised Standard Version as “sodomites.” In both texts, such people are mentioned simply in passing, in more-or-less miscellaneous catalogs of unacceptable behaviors, but with no special emphasis or attention called to them.
Such miscellaneous lists of “vices” are fairly common not only in the New Testament and other early Christian literature but also in Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Greco-Roman, and Jewish writings.3 They appear to have been somewhat stereotypical in nature, representing a kind of laundry list or grab bag of negative labels that could be trotted out and used for rhetorical purposes with little attention to individual items in the lists. As something of an analogy, I cite a passage from Arlo Guthrie’s famous ballad, “Alice’s Restaurant.” In speaking of his own arrest for littering and his assignment to “Group B” in the jail, Guthrie characterizes this group as follows:

Most of these deal with the new testement.

Most importantly.. Just because Jesus didn't say it doesnt mean it's not true. Jesus didn't say not to eat your neighbor either. He said nothing about many things... He DID say that he didn't come to change the laws, but too... ? Lets see if you know...

The 3rd is incorrect as it ignores the most important verse which I have quoted before. Man shall not lie with man..

It also tries to debunc the OT verses but at the same time, doesnt even come close. It's total BS. Reread it. if you knew anything about the OT, you would realise this too. It's some quackpot saying something that isn't true. Dont believe everything the internet tells you... do your own research. I promise.. It's there!

Darth_Prime

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Djayed

I know I am one of the first to come to the defense of homosexuality here. But I'm beginning to realize (finally) that it does no good to try to convince a bigoted segment of society that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. People are going to believe what they believe. And if they believe they should have a say in how other people live their lives (anti-freedom), there's not much to be done about it.

I have RARELY seen someone change their mind once they have their opinions about gay people and homosexuality. I say rarely, because I have seen it happen, but it takes an open mind... which is hard to come by in the anti-gay crowd.

So, yes, homosexuality is natural. As natural and beautiful as heterosexuality, left-handedness, blue eyes and baldness. But to try to convince those whose minds are already made up is a long, tough road.

I'm not saying I'm done discussing, arguing and debating about it, but I do so with lower expectations. You don't have to "sell yourself" or convince anyone that you're OK. Most of us know that already.
The times are changing and it's a wonderful thing.
Let the haters fall back and grumble about it.

Speak on it girl!

i have learned in my young age that you can't change peoples mind who refuse to be opened, i hope to bring awareness to the fact we are as Human as anyone else

daaskapital

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by daaskapital

Originally posted by daaskapital
Infertility cannot be compared to homosexuality. They are two different things.

Oh, well, isn't that convenient? "That's different". Good answer.

You quote that part of my answer, yet you do not include some of the reasons as to why i stated that. Nice attempt at turning the argument around. Infertility is completely different to homosexuality.

While it is natural in specific circumstances, it is not normal in the fact that two men cannot reproduce and two women cannot reproduce.

That is a scientific fact. Even if they're straight, two men cannot reproduce! You are avoiding answering my questions.

Yes, indeed it is a fact; and that is why homosexuality is not completely normal. Homosexuals can reproduce with those of the opposite sex, but they are unlikely to do so due to their sexual preferences.

I do believe i answered your questions...

I respect homosexual people as i would anyone else. I have stated what i have stated because it is the observable truth.

Well, then why don't you have the guts to call ME "unnatural" or "abnormal". Since, like a gay couple, I cannot reproduce? I know... "That's different", right?

Because i do not know you specific circumstances. Yes, i know you are infertile, but i do not know the circumstances of which you became so. Stop trying to turn the homosexual debate into a infertility one of which you take personally please.

No i do not, mostly because the conversation has never really come up.

Bring it up with your gay friends. If it's not an insult, I challenge you to ask them, "Hey guys, I think homosexuality is not normal or natural." Let us know what they say.

I do believe that homosexuality is natural to some extent. But i do not think it is completely normal.

I may bring the topic up in a future conversation.
edit on 29-6-2013 by daaskapital because: quote problems

tamusan

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by Djayed

While we're talking about "natural things". It's also a natural thing for our differences to cause division. Why can't we all get along? Because we can't.

I happen to be very accepting when it comes to gay rights. That does not mean I like you. I feel sick when I think about it too much or when I have to see homosexual public displays of affection. I am fighting my natural urge to hate, because I strongly believe that all people should be free do whatever harmless action they want.

caladonea

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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First of all...I accept people as they are...and as they choose to be.

What I do not totally understand is why many (gay people) have a need to go around and tell everyone they are gay; why they are gay etc.

I say... just be who you wonderfully are...and live your life as best you can.

I am heterosexual and I do not announce this to society (except here to make a point); I just am... who I am.

As I am writing this I am thinking; I may have my own answer...gay people are fighting for the basic human rights...that everyone in society should have.

edit on 29-6-2013 by caladonea because: edit

Djayed

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by caladonea

I am heterosexual and I do not announce this to society; I just am... who I am.

As I am writing this I am thinking; I may have my own answer...gay people are fighting for the basic human rights...that everyone in society should have.

My response was going to be just that!!

200Plus

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I have come to agree with you about 70% of the time in the last month or so. You approach most issues with a clear head and solid argument. Thanks for that

This comment however I couldn't let slide with asking a question.

If Homosexuals can reproduce just like heterosexuals (your argument) does that also mean the current laws are just? After all, homosexuals can marry just like heterosexuals.

On Topic - We cannot reasonable be expected to pick and choose what we want to claim is natural to humans based on animal behavior. It's a complete package deal. I see the whole thing as more of a "self justification" rather than a valid argument.

Djayed

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by theRhenn

Accept that people dont agree with you. Man, I sure wish everyone agreed with me! But it wont happen.

But that is not that case...most of Americans do accept Gay....Also I will say it again.....Bigots cannot claim Intolerance...and I can claim bigot for someone that doesn't have tolerance for who I am.... and they cannot legitimately claim Hypocrisy or intolerance...plain and simple....

tamusan

posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by ThaLoccster

The question people, especially heterosexual people need to ask is When did you decide to like the opposite sex?

I can find early childhood memories of a strong attraction for the opposite sex.

Believe me, if I naturally had homosexual urges, I would be acting on them. My favorite hobby is getting off with a partner. I've never particpated in any kind of homosexual activity, despite the offers to do so. My body just don't get excited without the opposite sex.