Why being Gay IS a Natural thing

First, I think I want to clarify I am not trying to debate creationism vs evolution. Regardless of what you believe; if you believe God made everything and everything in nature works to his will, then great. If you believe everything evolved on this planet and nature/science is the driver, that’s fine as well.

My point of this thread is to discuss logically why homosexuality is natural and the importance it plays in the world today, in the past and how either God or Nature created homosexuality to deal with specific issues that would affect the entire planet.

First lets discuss the “It’s not Natural Debate”, if you agree that God creates nature to do his work or nature with natural selection/evolution then “Homosexuality’ would and could not be found in nature. But, on the contrary homosexuality behavior and relationships have been documented in 1500 species.

Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual and bisexual behavior in various (non-human) species. Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting among same-sex animal pairings. A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.[1][2] Animal sexual behaviour takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied.[3] According to Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity – including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex – than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."[4] Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom.[5] A new review made in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species.[6] Homosexual behavior is best known from social species. According to geneticist Simon Levay in 1996, "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.[7] One species in which exclusive homosexual orientation occurs, however, is that of domesticated sheep (Ovis aries).[8][9] "About 10% of rams (males) refuse to mate with ewes (females) but do readily mate with other rams.

Wiki

New-Medical

For these animals, there is documented evidence of homosexual or transgender behavior of one or more of the following kinds: sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, or parenting, as noted in researcher and author Bruce Bagemihl's 1999 bookBiological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity.
Bagemihl writes that the presence of same-sex sexual behavior was not 'officially' observed on a large scale until the 1990s due to possible observer bias caused by social attitudes towards LGBT people making the bull homosexual themetaboo.[2][3] Bagemihl devotes three chapters; Two Hundred Years at Looking at Homosexual Wildlife, Explaining (Away) Animal Homosexuality and Not For Breeding Only in his 1999 book Biological Exuberance to the "documentation of systematicprejudices" where he notes "the present ignorance of biology lies precisely in its single-minded attempt to find reproductive (or other) "explanations" for homosexuality, transgender, and non-procreative and alternative heterosexualities.[4] Petter Bøckman, academic adviser for the Against Nature? exhibit stated "[M]any researchers have described homosexuality as something altogether different from sex. They must realise that animals can have sex with who they will, when they will and without consideration to a researcher's ethical principles". Homosexual behavior is found amongst social birds and mammals, particularly the sea mammals and the primates
Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species and the motivations for and implications of their behaviors have yet to be fully understood. Bagemihl's research shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.[5][6] Homosexuality in animals is seen as controversial by social conservatives because it asserts the naturalness of homosexuality in humans, while others counter that it has no implications and is nonsensical to equate animal behavior to morality.[7][8] Animal preference and motivation is always inferred from behavior. Thus homosexual behavior has been given a number of terms over the years. The correct usage of the term homosexual is that an animal exhibits homosexual behavior, however this article conforms to the usage by modern research[9][10][11][12] applying the term homosexuality to all sexual behavior (copulation, genital stimulation, mating games and sexual display behavior) between animals of the same sex.

Here is a select list of mammals that the behavior was documented:

Mammals
Main article: List of mammals displaying homosexual behavior
Selected mammals from the full list:
• Bison[16]
• Brown Bear[17]
• Brown Rat[18]
• Caribou[19]
• Cat (domestic)[20]
• Cattle (domestic)[21]
• Chimpanzee[22][23][24][25]
• Common Dolphin[26]
• Common Marmoset[27]
• Dog[28]
• Elephant[29]
• Fox[30]
• Giraffe[31][3][32]
• Goat[16]
• Horse (domestic)[33]
• Human[34][35][36]
• Koala[37]
• Lion[34]
• Orca[26]
• Raccoon[38]

Full List

Now with all this being said let’s talk about how Homosexuality has actually help control population in not only Animals but also People. Without having homosexuals all throughout history, earth would have reach catastrophic levels of overpopulation long ago, all of our natural resources would have been gone, and we wouldn't be sitting here debating civil rights in the 21st century.

So if you are really religious I have to say, yes being gay is normal and it is something God has designed.

If you believe in evolution, I have to say yes being Gay is normal and something Mother Nature designed.

Rape, murder, theft, cannibalism--all naturally occurring also.

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
Rape, murder, theft, cannibalism--all naturally occurring also.

Sorry those are acts...homosexual is not an act...sex is an act but Homosexuality is not all about sex regardless of what people think.

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
Rape, murder, theft, cannibalism--all naturally occurring also.

Are you seriously trying to compare homosexuality to rape, murder, theft and cannibalism?

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you are trying to create more discussion rather than just being homophobic.

The examples you give also all have a victim. These are crimes set out in our civilized laws, because they have victims.

In addition, the real discussion is that homosexuality is natural, the argument those who claim it isn't should really be that they personally find it objectionable. But as there is no victim, they have no right to influence others based on that warped opinion.

Homosexuality is natural, if it were not it would not exist in nature. It's an oxymoron.
But as you point out (I'm assuming) it's unacceptable in the minds of some.

However, it's still victimless, and has no bearing on your life, this is why it isn't and should never be, a criminal act as you listed.

So now your argument is that it's victimless? We've done away with "naturally occurring" as a justification?

Homosexuality is all fine and good. It's not my bag, but to each their own.

It's the culture that views homosexuality as taboo. Back in various cultures in history, homosexuality was viewed just as normal as heterosexuals (I'm not gonna go into the ancient greeks and little boys cause I find that personally weird).But I digress... There's nothing wrong with homosexuality.

My dad is gay....

Firstly, homosexuality as defined by the Oxford dictionary is:

a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

oxforddictionaries.com...

While homosexual acts are documented in nature, the animals conducting said acts may not be homosexual in and of themselves (meaning they are not attracted to the same sex). A lot of animals conduct homosexual activity in a display of dominance to their fellow species. Further, as your linked research states; there is nearly not enough study on the motivations behind the homosexual actions of animals. In this sense, we can safely say that the animals themselves are not gay, only that they display homosexual activity.

Another perspective of which can be taken is that homosexuality is not normal, because all species need to reproduce. In homosexuals, the ability to reproduce is stripped away entirely, thus meaning that in nature, homosexuality is not normal at all.

---

Overall, while homosexual acts do appear in nature, it is in no way normal, or indicative of homosexual orientation in animals.

Edit: I must stress that while stating the above, i am in no way a homophobic or take action against homosexual people. I have many great friends who are homosexual, and i treat them with the same respect and dignity as everyone else.

reply to post by MuzzleBreak


Um no my Postion is still the same....homosexuality is in place by nature to ensure you still have food and a place to live...your welcome...lol

Everything in nature has a purpose...even homosexuality...

First: Which god are you refering to?

The God of the Bible? Torah? Kabala? Talmud? Koran?
- Not possible. He says it's wrong. This God gives free will, the right for you to CHOOSE.

Some other god?
- What's the origin of this god and when did the belief system begin?


Second: It's ok because animals do it... That means it's natural.

It's a known fact that rival male lions crush the heads of lion cubs belonging to the female lions he's come to take over so the females are more obedient while getting her back in heat so he can spawn more of his own cubs. This happens naturally in nature. If this is true, which it is... Every man that marries a woman who had children with a previous man... It's ok for him to kill the children she had to show dominance over her and make her ready to produce his own children. This is ok? It happens in nature so it must be ok, right?


How is the inability to propagate the species natural? Don't animals kill the weakest of the species so that the strongest survive while getting rid of the worthless junk life? Apply this to the inability to reproduce with homosexuality.



Third: It's not a choice, I was born this way...

It's also a known fact that there are instances where two identical twins; identical DNA, can be found where one is gay and the other is strait. If they have the exact same genetics... How can this be possible if they were "born this way"?



Fourth: There are studies that proves that it's genetic.

There are counter studies as well. One of many, many examples.


Lastly: Take a poll... IF you can

What's the possiblity of taking an ACCURATE poll of lesbians and gays to see if there was something in their life that may have triggered being such. Is it possible to take such a poll with possible "dark secrets" coming out? Even if it's a blind poll, would the subjects remain unbiase and remain honest even though they found that the poll could play against them? Example: Many women who have never had kids are pro choice... The argument could be brought up that since they've never had children, could they make a true bias opinion on the issue? "Only a gay person would know", perhaps, but how bias is it?

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
So now your argument is that it's victimless? We've done away with "naturally occurring" as a justification?

Appeal to nature is a bad argument to justify anything, so yeah. Whether homosexuality is "natural" or "unnatural" has little moral consequence, and its not even defined well.

Homosexuality does not harm anyone, that is justification enough.

reply to post by defcon5

Animals also engage in murder, cannibalism [redacted] that I think everyone will have no problem with agreeing aren't acceptable for humans.

Well... Not everyone...

listverse.com...

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
Rape, murder, theft, cannibalism--all naturally occurring also.

Don't forget bigotry and prejudice.

reply to post by HauntWok

There will always be humans who also engage in those activities, but that is why society as a whole has laws to punish those who engage in what we consider socially unacceptable behavior. There are humans who have “impulse control” issues. These folks usually are the ones who end up as "career criminals" in prisons.

Killing,war,plagues, exist too.To call these tragedys acts of God is crazy.Its called FREE WILL and are man-made.

Masturbation is natural.....homosexuality is not.
Bestiality - both hetero and homo is not natural.
That being said, there are some people who appear to be born in the wrong sex/gender; ie, effeminate men and masculine women, where hormones (too much estrogen and testosterone, resp) may exacerbate that tendency. For those people homosexuality could be argued to be relatively more "natural" than for humans as a whole.

The question of rights for adults to engage in consentual behavior and the obligation of the state to sanction such behavior when it comes to applying the institution of marriage to those individuals is another issue. As to the DOMA....one should be able to bequeath any assets upon death without estate tax anyway whether they are officially "married" or not. Double taxation should be treated as synonymous as double jeapardy...also a topic for another thread.

reply to post by defcon5


It all comes down to how we perceive an act culturally. Because some asshat twisted gods' words to blast homosexuality does not make homosexuality inherently wrong, nor does it make cannibalism, rape, or murder inherently wrong.

In some indigenous African cultures, for example, relatives will eat their dead family members as a means of helping the soul pass on. In many areas of the world, honor killing is pardoned as acceptable murder. We already live in a rape culture that glorifies sexual violence through entertainment and more often than not only comes down harshly on public cases to uphold the appearance that it is "tough on rape."

Originally posted by theRhenn
First: Which god are you refering to?

The God of the bible?
- Not possible. He says it's wrong.

Read the Christian bible from the 1500's it might change your opinions of those verses you are referencing the all mighty is against homosexuality....most of them originally meant evil acts....

The term homosexuality is a 19th century created term

Second: It's ok because animals do it... That mean's it's natural.

It's a known fact that rival male lions crush the heads of lion cubs belonging to the female lions he's come to take over so the females are more obedient and get her back in heat so he can spawn more of his own cubs. This happens naturally in nature. If this is true, which it is... Every man that marries a woman who had children with a previous man... It's ok for him to kill the children she had to show dominance over her and make her ready to produce his own children. This is ok? It happens in nature so it must be ok, right?

There is a big difference between an act and what someone/something is.

Third: It's not a choice, I was born this way...

It's also a known fact that there are instances where two identical twins; identical DNA, can be found where one is gay and the other is strait. If they have the exact same genetics... How can this be possible if they were "born this way"?

Genes make up everything...eye color, hair color, etc, .even identical twins have differences...they are not even 100% alike....

Fourth: There are studies that proves that it's genetic.

There are counter studies as well. One of many, many examples.

I was born homosexual...just as someone is born black...if you are not homosexual, you cannot say for fact that is not true. Some studies show they rate of homosexuals in a family depend on how many women are in that family. Research is still being conducted, but when it boils down to it, it is not a metal disorder per the medical community, and you are referencing that it is conditions which is mental.....

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


I'm not sure how you can deny homosexuality as a natural occurrence, that's like denying the existence carbon dioxide to oxygen.