RIP, American Dream? Why It's So Hard for the Poor to Get Ahead Today

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by Komaratzi11
One of the things that I have noticed in the area where I live, is that quite often the most "successful" people are the ones who were given opportunities based off of who they know. I've seen it happen often to people I know. They will be overlooked for a job, even with a stable work history, for a job hopper who knows someone in the business.

I even know of someone who was very well-qualified for a bank teller position and had an incredibly stable job history, who was overlooked for a high school kid whose family was well-known in the town. Ouch!

The thing is that most of these folks who get hired come from more "elite" families in the area. (If you can even use the word elite to describe less financially-challenged rednecks)

This is what America has become, a land of nepotism and cronyism. Before I started working for myself, I worked in pharmaceuticals and people that had higher positions or were getting hired permanently were people who knew someone that had clout with the company. One day, I just had enough of it, and started pooling every cent that I had into getting start up capital to take control of my life.

In the end, if you are satisfied with being apart of the rat race, or have to do what you have to do to survive, so be it. I decided that I had enough, and now I work for myself. It was not easy getting started and it is not easy to maintain it, but I do, and I will leave my children with something that they can start off with when I am done here on this earth so they will not have to go through the same garbage that I had to go through.

Only old coots who are stuck in the past, naive people, or people who have had everything handed to them on a plate via the same system that we are talking about believe that hard work will get you what you want in life. Many times, that is NOT the case. It's about who you you know more than what you know, trust and believe.

Yet I have had a completely different professional experience so who is right?

Is their nepotism 100% yes.
Is that the only way to get ahead..100% no

I am 39 and my sister is 28..I feel sorry for her generation. My group of friends are all doing ok. 15-20 years into our careers..all of us stable in somewhat stable fields or I should say at levels that make us somewhat stable and that achievement was through hard work. Of the 4 companies I have worked for in the past 19 years none of those jobs nor any of the advancement in them came from "knowing the right people". You can call that being "part of the rat race" all you want..So be it things like that mean nothing to me.. I can't think of another job I would rather be doing right now for the place I am doing it. It's mentally challenging, emotionally fulfilling and financially viable. It's great you started your own business, more power to you but that is not the right road for everyone and your choice is no more valid then what anyone else chooses.

My sister on the other hand has been laid off 4 times in the past 2 years. I am worried for her and her age group. Their just aren't many options for them. I think for the next gen after hers it only gets worse. A sad state of affairs for those to come.

reply to post by Lunarian

There is a reasonable amount of acceptable risk in any endeavor, but the cost of education has gone way beyond what is acceptable risk for most people.

There are no guarantees anywhere in this life, except a promissory note.

Try some intern jobs to find out what you would be happy doing, sometimes you may take to it so well that your employer may at least help with tuition, and if you don't take to it you won't be mired in student debt for the rest of your life by majoring in a mistake.

I am so very glad my schooling was covered by the G.I. Bill, because it really was a waste of time in the end since the job wasn't out there when I finished, don't be considering entering the military to get your education either, you may not survive to get one, I almost didn't.

The American Dream died when corporate interests replaced representation of the people by those we send to DC. Although you will still be fed the "achieve the American Dream" BS it is only done now in an attempt to brainwash the masses and keep them buying into the scheme of things.

IMO opinion if you really want to achieve the American Dream the first step is to break out of the mold and realize that in today's world it is all a scheme based upon materialism and control. Now I am no expert on economics, social issues, or any thing else but I will give you my honest assessment of things as I see it from my experiences in life.

We as a nation have been brainwashed and manipulated to accept the definition of the American Dream that is fed to us by TPTB. The most widely use tool for this brainwashing is the television and media outlets. Now I rarely watch tv so what I say here may not be completely accurate but you will get the point.

On any given day you are being programmed by what you see on television, hence the phrase television programming. When you are watching TV you are bombarded every 10-12 minutes with advertisements for a wide array of advertisements from new cars, cell phones, TV's, clothes, computers, etc. Most of the people on these advertisements are someone famous being paid millions of dollars to promote that product. It is not always the case but more often than not it is. The reason for this is that we have become such a celebrity obsessed society that the marketing exec's know that most will go buy that product just so they can feel a connection to that celebrity.

The items that are advertised are items that in truth no one needs, yet through their advertising they make it seem as if you "have" to have this product to fit in and be part of the status quo. Because of this most people will run out and buy that new product so they can feel secure that their place in today's society is secure because it is human nature to fit in due to our being social creatures.

Add to this the fact that most of these items are severely over priced compared to the amount of revenue required to produce said product. Therefore the companies making these items can afford to pay a celebrity to promote the items because the manufacturer is making unbelievable profits. Think back 20 years ago, it was extremely rare to see a celebrity promoting everyday items in commercials.

So now we have an entire group of products that people really don't need and don't do anything to make a person's life easier, and in fact do little to nothing to add to the happiness or relaxation of a person. I mean does an Iphone 5 really do much more than an Iphone 4 or the original Iphone for that matter? It's a phone plain and simple, you talk to people on it and there's no reason to have to have internet and all that crap in your face 24/7. Same goes for the new Honda Civic over a Honda Civic that's 5 years old? Do we really need Wi-Fi in our cars when most everyone already has it in their phones?

In order to prevent myself from rambling I will get to the point of my post. We have became a society that is addicted to having the newest and most advanced gadgets and items, even when the older items that we replace with new ones still work fine and get the job done. TPTB know this since it is their programming that has conditioned us to be that way to begin with.

So in short instead of striving to achieve the true American Dream of having a secure home, working to save money to secure our future, and enjoying time with our families we have traded that because we feel we need all of the, many times useless gadgets, and the overpriced items we see on TV.

The American Dream is attainable as long as we learn to resist the urges brought on by social programming and be happy with what matters most in life which. That which matters most is personal and financial security, quality time with family and friends, and personal and individual freedoms, none of which can be achieved when we constantly put ourselves in outlandish personal debt, while making TPTB rich just because we are bombarded with advertisements to buy items we really don't need.

My family and I made a choice several years ago to go back to a simpler way of life and we are much happier. We don't drive new cars but our cars will get us anywhere we want to go including cross country trips, we don't have the newest and latest phones or TV's and don't wear brand name clothes and although at first we went through some withdrawals we have found that our financial security is much better and our happiness is exponentially better because we are now focused on our lives instead of trying to acquire a bunch of materialistic crap that will just end up outdated in a year.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by Redarguo

 

I'm a capitalist and I agree with your post. There are way too many businesses that have strong monopolies that make it difficult to challenge and compete against them. No wonder many people dislike capitalism because it feels like it only rewards a small minority. I guess that's a part of life. Competition!

Don't get me wrong, I too see many benefits of capitalism. Development of technology and industrialization are accelerated with competition. I just think that competition has a limit on the benefit it provides and once a certain level is reached the move should be towards a more socialist approach. ie I don't believe that people go hungry due to lack of food in the world but because of uneven/ concentrated wealth. That said I also believe that entrepreneurs and small business men are essential to any society but I cant agree with profiteering from a nations resources, I see such ie water/ power/ oil companies as unnecessary middle men to the point prisons and our NHS are being privatized. Its legitimized theft of a nations wealth that does not benefit the citizen but like you say does for a small minority. Which is another flaw i see with the capitalistic model, once that minority concentrates wealth there is less in circulation, which decreases the buying power of the workers, who are also the consumer. Capitalism is based on projected profit, on the premise that stock/ investments will continually rise. IMO bubble and burst are necessary to prevent the hole system imploding, like a resent button because continuous growth/profit is not a possibility.

All that "Free Trade" crap was put into law because the pinheads running this country knew the people wouldn't be able to keep buying their crap if they don't have money to waste.

Technology eliminated a lot of jobs, some went overseas, a lot just evaporated, and free trade opens up markets elsewhere to sell the crap to other countries while we all go hungry.

So what can be done now?, must be SOME REASON certain sectors of the population here want to disarm certain other sectors of the population, huh?.

Corporations were illegal until 1819 for good reason, so here we are again.

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
All that "Free Trade" crap was put into law because the pinheads running this country knew the people wouldn't be able to keep buying their crap if they don't have money to waste.

Technology eliminated a lot of jobs, some went overseas, a lot just evaporated, and free trade opens up markets elsewhere to sell the crap to other countries while we all go hungry.

So what can be done now?, must be SOME REASON certain sectors of the population here want to disarm certain other sectors of the population, huh?.

Corporations were illegal until 1819 for good reason, so here we are again.

Add to that a lot of big business gets heavily subsidized. Where I live Japanese electronic companies were getting factories built by the state plus tax breaks to encourage them to move here and create jobs, they all moved on after the free funds dried up. Farm subsidization is an other killer of the free market.

Its not so much that corporations were illegal, they had not been created (their legal status) ie shareholders/owners being able to incorporate themselves into a single entity having no liability for the companies actions. Before then owners were responsible. In all fairness tho it was necessary for investment.

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by Komaratzi11
One of the things that I have noticed in the area where I live, is that quite often the most "successful" people are the ones who were given opportunities based off of who they know. I've seen it happen often to people I know. They will be overlooked for a job, even with a stable work history, for a job hopper who knows someone in the business.

I even know of someone who was very well-qualified for a bank teller position and had an incredibly stable job history, who was overlooked for a high school kid whose family was well-known in the town. Ouch!

The thing is that most of these folks who get hired come from more "elite" families in the area. (If you can even use the word elite to describe less financially-challenged rednecks)

This is what America has become, a land of nepotism and cronyism. Before I started working for myself, I worked in pharmaceuticals and people that had higher positions or were getting hired permanently were people who knew someone that had clout with the company. One day, I just had enough of it, and started pooling every cent that I had into getting start up capital to take control of my life.

In the end, if you are satisfied with being apart of the rat race, or have to do what you have to do to survive, so be it. I decided that I had enough, and now I work for myself. It was not easy getting started and it is not easy to maintain it, but I do, and I will leave my children with something that they can start off with when I am done here on this earth so they will not have to go through the same garbage that I had to go through.

Only old coots who are stuck in the past, naive people, or people who have had everything handed to them on a plate via the same system that we are talking about believe that hard work will get you what you want in life. Many times, that is NOT the case. It's about who you you know more than what you know, trust and believe.

Yet I have had a completely different professional experience so who is right?

Is their nepotism 100% yes.
Is that the only way to get ahead..100% no

I am 39 and my sister is 28..I feel sorry for her generation. My group of friends are all doing ok. 15-20 years into our careers..all of us stable in somewhat stable fields or I should say at levels that make us somewhat stable and that achievement was through hard work. Of the 4 companies I have worked for in the past 19 years none of those jobs nor any of the advancement in them came from "knowing the right people". You can call that being "part of the rat race" all you want..So be it things like that mean nothing to me.. I can't think of another job I would rather be doing right now for the place I am doing it. It's mentally challenging, emotionally fulfilling and financially viable. It's great you started your own business, more power to you but that is not the right road for everyone and your choice is no more valid then what anyone else chooses.

My sister on the other hand has been laid off 4 times in the past 2 years. I am worried for her and her age group. Their just aren't many options for them. I think for the next gen after hers it only gets worse. A sad state of affairs for those to come.

I am in your sister's generation. I have faced what she is facing, having a degree, and ending up having to go from job to job, doing contracting, etc, while watching other people get by based off of who they know. That's when I said screw it. When you went out into the working world, it may have been different for you. But for myself, and people like your sister, it truly is about who you know in this day and age. Feel grateful for the fact that when you started, the country hadn't gone to complete #. By the time I started, which was a couple of years after 9-11, things weren't good at all.

And no, my path is not the next person's path. I am not telling anyone to do what I did. I am just saying that I became fed up with this job market full of cronyism and nepotism and decided to go my own way, and I am not afraid to fail. I'd rather fail trying then continue down that road that led me to becoming fed up.

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
All that "Free Trade" crap was put into law because the pinheads running this country knew the people wouldn't be able to keep buying their crap if they don't have money to waste.

Technology eliminated a lot of jobs, some went overseas, a lot just evaporated, and free trade opens up markets elsewhere to sell the crap to other countries while we all go hungry.

So what can be done now?, must be SOME REASON certain sectors of the population here want to disarm certain other sectors of the population, huh?.

Corporations were illegal until 1819 for good reason, so here we are again.

Bingo.

The corporate and financial powers who run our government in plain sight know damn well that the quality of life in America will continue to deteriorate due to their actions, which is why they want to disarm the populace because when everyone wakes the hell up and realizes that they were sold out, they know who the guns will be pointed at sooner than later.

Originally posted by supremecommander
I am in your sister's generation. I have faced what she is facing, having a degree, and ending up having to go from job to job, doing contracting, etc, while watching other people get by based off of who they know. That's when I said screw it. When you went out into the working world, it may have been different for you. But for myself, and people like your sister, it truly is about who you know in this day and age. Feel grateful for the fact that when you started, the country hadn't gone to complete #. By the time I started, which was a couple of years after 9-11, things weren't good at all.

And no, my path is not the next person's path. I am not telling anyone to do what I did. I am just saying that I became fed up with this job market full of cronyism and nepotism and decided to go my own way, and I am not afraid to fail. I'd rather fail trying then continue down that road that led me to becoming fed up.

This sucks and I wish their was some tangible way I could help. People of your generation, and some of mine, have so little options in the modern work world. It's brutal and I don't what else to say other than I hope it works out.

I know you and I have not always agreed on other posts but whatever positive work energy I have I hope things turn around for your era.

reply to post by Redarguo


I understand where you're coming from with your skepticism of the capitalist model. The reason I mentioned I supported capitalism earlier is because I see it goes along with what I have learn about in human nature. And that is competition between individuals and families. I feel capitalism is my chance to make something out of my life. Everything I have read in books or online, listened to online, or even watched make sense to me. I feel that is a great system if it can be used properly and understood.

No economic or political system is perfect. The people have to make it work and understand it's the people who make this a reality. Not a small group of people or magic is involved to make it work perfectly. I still have to study economics to get the bigger picture for myself.

The problem is that the people who are rich, have nothing but disdain for those who aren't. Most of the Elite, think we are animals with no brains. Not much different then us, since most of us view each other the same way.

In response, I pose a question...

What are the "poor,' trying to get ahead of?

Endemic to all society at this time is the root and the name of this root is INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!!

End of rant/

We are way past due on new innovative ideas. The internet is over saturated and technology is so easily possessed now. The only way for a new era to occur is new implementations. Its up to the people to become thinkers again and get out of the habit of learning old information thats hundreds of years old. Im not saying be totally ignorant to whats out there now, its great to learn fundamental ideas but we all need to take action with what we have now and start coming up with new innovative ways of life. The whole going green idea has brought a sleight increase in making way to a new era but we need something big on the idea of when Internet first was created, Radio, Automobiles, Telephones, The lightbulb, even an idea that is as brand new as creating the wheel. We need to remove ourselves from technology, social networks, entertainment and other distractions and start breaking out pen and pads and jotting down notes as to where we want to be and what we need to do in order to get there. I invite everyone to take 1 day out your week to turn the TVs off, dont log into facebook or even come on ATS, take a day and just go about your daily routine but stay away from the distractions. If we all did that for atleast 1 year, i KNOW that the idea will come and we will have a brand new innovation and create new ways for us all to get ahead and remain there.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by Redarguo

 

I understand where you're coming from with your skepticism of the capitalist model. The reason I mentioned I supported capitalism earlier is because I see it goes along with what I have learn about in human nature. And that is competition between individuals and families. I feel capitalism is my chance to make something out of my life. Everything I have read in books or online, listened to online, or even watched make sense to me. I feel that is a great system if it can be used properly and understood.

No economic or political system is perfect. The people have to make it work and understand it's the people who make this a reality. Not a small group of people or magic is involved to make it work perfectly. I still have to study economics to get the bigger picture for myself.

Agree completely, economic self determination, should be a mans right. Its my goal also.

Btw, Das capital as a critique of capitalism is a pretty good description of how the system works, knowledge is knowledge, and gives a good in depth examination of capitalist economic theory, profit maximization ect. only fault I see is he does not really consider supply and demand. There another economic book that addresses this called capitalism socialism and democracy. Read them more as academic works rather than political theory. Best of luck to you.

Originally posted by totallackey
In response, I pose a question...

What are the "poor,' trying to get ahead of?

Endemic to all society at this time is the root and the name of this root is INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!!

End of rant/

Probably trying to survive, out of all western countries the US is the last place I would want to be among the worst off in society. Even Eastern Europe has free higher education and business start up grants.

Even Eastern Europe has free higher education and business start up grants.

We have that in the US as well, but mostly its only for "New Citizens".

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Even Eastern Europe has free higher education and business start up grants.

We have that in the US as well, but mostly its only for "New Citizens".

Sorry our media paints a different picture. Apologies. I was under the impression that Americans were set against state welfare. ie calling Obama a communist for free health care and stuff like legal aid reform.

reply to post by Redarguo


Government raised interest rates on student loans and are considering doing it again, they had some hearing about the loans last week, almost impossible to get business start up grants unless you are connected and its a solar company, only free legal aid you get here is free dental work if your in jail.

Most are against welfare, myself included. I would be for education and business help though, its like the old saying goes...give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for life. Truth is they don't want to help anyone that wants to be successful, only those that are willing to accept dependence upon government.

Originally posted by Nucleardiver
reply to post by Redarguo

 

Government raised interest rates on student loans and are considering doing it again, they had some hearing about the loans last week, almost impossible to get business start up grants unless you are connected and its a solar company, only free legal aid you get here is free dental work if your in jail.

TBH legal aids a bit of a scam here the state pays legal costs so you can end up with a better lawyer than the prosecution. Except High Court prosecutors most arn't good enough to be defense lawyers.

The dream isnt dead! The dream is being killed! Killed by whom? Fear! Fear is killing our dreams. The government isnt doing anything different than what they have been doing for centuries! The only difference now is that "We know about it!". The more we seem to learn, the more we are afraid of taking any kind of actions that we would have taken if we didnt know what the hell was going on! We're quick to say we cant based on some pre conceived/learn knowledge that we have attained. Just do it. It will happen. Just do it, do not be afraid!!!! We hinder ourselves! Scrap the plate you were getting and get a new one, build that plate based upon the fact that happen after you've tried to attain the things you want! Start from scratch!