Individual vs collective meaning of life

Greetings fellow philosophers! In this thread I’d like to touch on what I consider a very sensitive subject. Many of us at a certain point of our lives put everything to a halt for a second and ask, ‘Does this all have any meaning?’. The question is actually deeper and it is different from the typical ‘what is the meaning of life’ question. This particular question is very personal. We are interested not in life as such, because it may or may not have a meaning (be it a statistical, historical, or evolutional meaning). We need our little personal meaning which we can grasp with our individual minds. I do not know if anybody succeeded in finding the answer, but I myself failed at this task several times. Not that I didn’t learn anything while I tried. One of the things I learned is that probably there is no such thing as an individual life’s meaning. All those things we are preoccupied with belong for the most part to the circumstances and the context we are in rather than ourselves. Sort of you are playing a game, which you learn on the fly, but that’s not your game. You can’t win or lose. You can’t really do or gain anything, because before you have the slightest chance to understand what’s going on, you are gone. Life is too short. It looks as if it is intentionally made that short so as not to give us any chance to reach any significant understanding or enlightenment. So what is it all about then? A game God (or gods) play or something existing for the sake of itself? It’s hard to say, but even if there is a goal, it may well be a collective goal. Probably we, as mankind must pass an exam, reach another level, and thus we shall reincarnate (or be incarnated) and suffer as long as there is at least one soul that is in the dark and needs development, and we shall all experience collective karma (which actually makes more sense unlike individual karma, which clearly does not seem to work as it is described). Again all of this holds water only if there is any ‘development’ at all, or a need for such development. Maybe it’s just a 3D screensaver God likes to watch from time to time. But I prefer to think there is something more to it. All in all, based on your experience, what is your stance on individual vs collective meaning of life?

reply to post by mrkeen


Take away the technology and what do we see of people? We see that we haven't changed at all when it comes to what the human animal is and feels. Put our 7 billion in any other time in history and no outsider would notice a difference. No, I'm not talking about language, I'm talking about greed, hatred, intolerance, the belief in false gods, and war. Long story short, if the human animal hasn't changed then there is no purpose, be it personal or as a species.

reply to post by mrkeen


Personal Perspective~

Probably we, as mankind must pass an exam, reach another level, and thus we shall reincarnate (or be incarnated) and suffer as long as there is at least one soul that is in the dark and needs development, and we shall all experience collective karma (which actually makes more sense unlike individual karma, which clearly does not seem to work as it is described).

The above stated is close to the astrological version of karma in that we live each sign so many times until we "Graduate" it is not as your Karma is yours and yours alone. Though a collective karma can be stated and would seem so because we are all playing the "game" together, it is not.

Individual meaning of life would be more sound in that not everyone is living the same life and experiancing the same scenerios. However through reincarnation one can experiance those test and live those "Life Paths" but this is going from astrology to numerology which to me is the same equation regurgitated in a different format.

I personally believe that it is individual to each soul as seperate individual conciousness and thought are exclusive to the person though at the same time we all pull from the collective conciousness that we call life.

Really hard to give a solid answer.... Could it be that it is both Collective and Individual? That all participants in this game of life as we know it, must collectively be at a certain pinnacle prior to the evolutionary jump?

I"m only the layman and I don't know nothing... But if I did... I wouldn't share such secrets

Those are for individuals to find out and giving the book of knowledge to someone can cause a sane human insanse.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by mrkeen

 

Take away the technology and what do we see of people? We see that we haven't changed at all when it comes to what the human animal is and feels. Put our 7 billion in any other time in history and no outsider would notice a difference. No, I'm not talking about language, I'm talking about greed, hatred, intolerance, the belief in false gods, and war. Long story short, if the human animal hasn't changed then there is no purpose, be it personal or as a species.

Kind of a depressing POV jiggerj? No? Not that I don't agree to an extent but to say that "All humans" act and are the same as they were always... Scientifically we are very different from the humans of ancient past through DNA sequencing... Still those same animalistic urges and behavior is there.

But individually we are not the same, some learn, some grow, some stay the same. Some humans are more advanced in that they don't show any of the above of what you stated.... Sure, take technology away and chaos is always possible but even during chaos there are those that decide not to participate and just want to live life.

Purpose would be in the eye of the beholder would it not?

reply to post by sulaw

Kind of a depressing POV jiggerj?

No, it isn't depressing or optimistic. It is what it is. It's nature. Is it pessimistic to state that lions kill for food?

Scientifically we are very different from the humans of ancient past through DNA sequencing...

reply to post by sulaw


Huh?

Still those same animalistic urges and behavior is there.

Correct. This is what defines humans. Forgot about two arms and blue eyes...

reply to post by jiggerj


Nahhh, it's there nature by default. But as Humans we do have a choice if we partake in Chaos or Peace so where's the line seperating the 2? Indivual or Collectively as a whole we are just animalistic in nature? Again to a certain extent I totally agree but then again maybe it's just my own individual life experiance that leads me to believe that.

Not to say I don't have animalistic tendencies~ Sometimes I wish I could lash out but realize the consequences of such action are not worth it. Ironic? Very much so~

reply to post by sulaw

But individually we are not the same, some learn, some grow, some stay the same. Some humans are more advanced in that they don't show any of the above of what you stated....

At what point in history can this NOT be said of humans?

reply to post by jiggerj

Huh?

Unless the article I read was utter garbage, they sequenced our DNA to the Ancients and we are sequenced differently. Yes still human but not the same.

reply to post by jiggerj

At what point in history can this NOT be said of humans?

It's the constant variable in life, it will always exist.

reply to post by mrkeen


There is no collective. Only individuals. Only individual rights. Only the individual's right to pursue happiness through rational self-interest.

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Nahhh, it's there nature by default. But as Humans we do have a choice if we partake in Chaos or Peace so where's the line seperating the 2? Indivual or Collectively as a whole we are just animalistic in nature? Again to a certain extent I totally agree but then again maybe it's just my own individual life experiance that leads me to believe that.

Not to say I don't have animalistic tendencies~ Sometimes I wish I could lash out but realize the consequences of such action are not worth it. Ironic? Very much so~

Name a century, or even a decade in the last 6.000 years where there weren't people like you. Like me? As peace loving and humble as Ghandi, or as insane and powerful as Hitler? From generation to generation we have been repeating the same play over and over, only the names have changed.

reply to post by jiggerj


An impossible question to answer~

Name a century, or even a decade in the last 6.000 years where there weren't people like you. Like me? As peace loving and humble as Ghandi, or as insane and powerful as Hitler? From generation to generation we have been repeating the same play over and over, only the names have changed.

I agree with your question however I feel our own personal beliefs is what seperates the two.

The same play has been in action since the dawn of time, though if what our OP stated as I do believe in reincarnation. This would be the defining line of the play. Then Life and Soul paths would come into play on the grander scale of the "the game". This is where Individual meaning of life to also take effect as in a prior life I could have been a hitler but in this life I would pay for those I hurt on "some level" as I play a different charecter who is a fun, loving individual with a lot of crap I'm dealing with. This would also make the theory that the soul which is everlasting is also ever evolving into a greater conciousness and needs to experiance the good, the bad and the ugly before it trancends further into the play of the universe we live...

Call me crazy...

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Huh?

Unless the article I read was utter garbage, they sequenced our DNA to the Ancients and we are sequenced differently. Yes still human but not the same.

If you are talking about humans mating with neanderthals and denisovans, then yes our DNA may be altered, but you have to understand that these species carried the same emotional baggage (envy, struggle to become the alpha male, fear of the unknown...). It's the emotional part that hasn't changed.

I'd love to say that as a species we have become less violent, but LOOK AT WORLD today! If anything, it seems our technological advances has made us more violent. Easier to drop a bomb than to incite a whole tribe to war.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by sulaw

 

Kind of a depressing POV jiggerj?

No, it isn't depressing or optimistic. It is what it is. It's nature. Is it pessimistic to state that lions kill for food?

That's it really. It is the nature of living things, the instinct for survival isn't lost as we become enclosed in a cement society driven by mass advertising. It's one time where I believe actors could be used to inflate the hordes of eager fans lining up before the doors open at the release of some new fruit product.

we just focus on other petty things and vent. it's cathartic anyway I think. better out that in.

as long as it's not spiteful or hateful anyway... Oo

reply to post by jiggerj


It's my misinterpretation then and your absolutely correct jigger, I can see where my thought process was off key when I read that article.

I'd love to say that as a species we have become less violent, but LOOK AT WORLD today! If anything, it seems our technological advances has made us more violent. Easier to drop a bomb than to incite a whole tribe to war.

I would love to as well and I'm not discrediting you at all I totally agree this world is fubar. Additionally I agree that the technological advancements we have made had ironically made us as a whole more violent in nature.

Maybe I want to believe in the "little" good that is left in the world and try to see past all the hate and greed that is rampant today. Naive? I would say so but to believe that humans could change it's heart is a wish I will never let go of.

reply to post by winofiend


I agree with you as well winofiend, the petty issues and war's claimed in the name of god and greed that consumes even the most humble of men is very cathartic.

Even the best of them have fallen but even the worst of them have risen to see the light of a different day.

It's the dual sword, the yin and the yang.

Again, just why I would say it's the indivdual meaning of life.

reply to post by sulaw

Maybe I want to believe in the "little" good that is left in the world and try to see past all the hate and greed that is rampant today. Naive? I would say so but to believe that humans could change it's heart is a wish I will never let go of.

Please don't feel disheartened. There has always been, and will always be, a little good in the world. This is also part of man's nature.

reply to post by jiggerj


Nah it's just may nature for as much good in this body I have and like to think out weighs the bad, I've been working on a Anger problem my whole life... Which I've been getting better at

I actually think being on this site helps me with that as I've learned to accept outside perspective and transform parts of myself which I consider limited into what I would consider a greater sulaw.

I appreciate you jigger taking the time and us civilly chatting about this.

Originally posted by mrkeen
All in all, based on your experience, what is your stance on individual vs collective meaning of life?

If you have a herd of cattle, you care about it because it required an investment. You are vested to the survival and prosperity of the herd. You do not care about an individual animal. You are willing to sell it, slaughter it, kill it if it is dangerous to the others, etc.

But when you go about to kill any of them, it will have the same emotions as humans do, it will be scared.

Individual vs collective meaning of life depends on your perspective, it depends if you are one of them, or if you are the one controlling them.