Inevitable Ego Death

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by BDBinc


See what I mean:
Afterinfinity's definition is the ego is self-recognition. Something that stops your animal instincts and your higher functioning conscience conflicting to the degree that you are psychologically hindered and unable to interact smoothly with the world around you.

We all have different meanings.
But the meanings are very interesting in themselves.
I would say as someone who has experienced no (self) recognition of being a mind body, no animal instincts and conscience conflicting that not having an ego is blissful and you do no harm as you are not separate and you are not conflicted .

I think being a slave to ego would be hell.

Consider what I might be like to not recognise yourself in the mirror... Not recognise pictures of your family and friends... to be completely alone in the world only because you don't recognise anything you once did...

Loss of the control of your bowels and bladder... The inability to feed yourself... or even eat in some cases... Food comes as puree in others... You're not allowed to leave the facility unless you're taking our by family which rarely visits due to either long distance or simply not careing enough to bother...

this is just the tip of the ice burg my friend... This is the easy side of this issue...

It gets far worse

I do not need to consider what I have experienced first hand, but you must add to all that abuse,not being fed, assault and battery and daily attempted active "euthanasia" as the insurance has ownership in the facility and wanted to save money by killing me quickly.
Trust me it was when the thoughts started that my hell began.

What is the issue here?
Death of the mind? Death of the body?Death of the ego?
It would've been harder for a loving caring person to watch my experiences than it was for me experiencing them as they imagine & think about what it would feel like to be dying (or to not be important).

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Akragon

honestly im not even sure a child of 7-8 can even accrue Karma...

With no apparent environmental cause, I was violent. Maybe I deserved it for some accumulated karma from a past life?

Seriously, I seem to have some legitimate reason to challenge the orthodox new age definitions of reincarnation and karma. I don't think they're correct.

Once dementia sets in, will I be "karma" free even if I break an assistant's wrist, or knock down another resident so that she breaks her hip? These are things I've seen.

Well... neither of these issues are actually "new age" as far as most people believe... the concepts come from waaaay back...

Perhaps since most of these people have little to no concept of what they're doing by hurting others... you might be right... again I don't know, but im often forced to wonder why this happens to people...

I find it to be a rather cruel fate for those that it does happen to... And since I also believe that the "God of this world" is not our friend, and definitely not on our side... I sometimes wonder if the events of some peoples lives lead them to this situation later in life... which would in fact be Karma coming back to bite said person in the ass

reply to post by BDBinc

Death of the mind? Death of the body?Death of the ego?

All of the above... wrapped up in a neat little package... and tucked away in a closet where people like me have to figure out a way to offer comfort

reply to post by Akragon

and tucked away in a closet where people like me have to figure out a way to offer comfort

It's a strain. I could only hack it for a few years. Hospice seems easier than dementia.

In hospice care at least you can get people talking about what they loved in life.

The problem I got was looking around afterward and seeing the banality of greed and petty corruption. The contrast pretty much tore me up. Banality pretty much gets my goat.

Maybe I'll try to mellow out to a re-read of "Our Town".

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Akragon

and tucked away in a closet where people like me have to figure out a way to offer comfort

It's a strain. I could only hack it for a few years. Hospice seems easier than dementia.

In hospice care at least you can get people talking about what they loved in life.

The problem I got was looking around afterward and seeing the banality of greed and petty corruption. The contrast pretty much tore me up. Banality pretty much gets my goat.

Maybe I'll try to mellow out to a re-read of "Our Town".

Actually I have a few friends who work at a hospice... Myself, I've never seen death in my life... aside from animals... which I've seen too much of...

People will not die around me, which is a little weird... The last person we lost passed away 5 mins after I left... almost as if he was waiting for me to leave...

I've heard hospice is easier because its not a lot of suffering in many cases... its a peaceful passing most of the time... a lot of time to reminisce... that just isn't the case when that person doesn't know anyone around them

Truly at times it seems like their own personal hell on earth

Originally posted by Akragon


All of the above... wrapped up in a neat little package... and tucked away in a closet where people like me have to figure out a way to offer comfort

Your being is the comfort, just be at peace and do not try to figure out how to love as that is your nature and when you are content it is also the best comfort for all those around you.


I don't think there is any point in us saying people get dementia due to their Karma or even trying to establish what its cause is.
Its easier for us to think people with dis- ease must have done something to "deserve" their experiences (or that it is because of the god of this world who is cruel)?
What then did we all do to experience discomfort while experiencing others experience of dementia?
Do you want them to die so that watching their "suffering" will end ?

Who has not forgotten, or has remembered, who he/she really is is content .
The rest are in a constant state of discontent.
For some its hell on earth.

reply to post by BDBinc

I don't think there is any point in us saying people get dementia due to their Karma or even trying to establish what its cause is.
Its easier for us to think people with dis- ease must have done something to "deserve" their experiences (or that it is because of the god of this world who is cruel)?
What then did we all do to experience discomfort while experiencing others experience of dementia?

However uneasy it makes many people feel that is my belief... Everything happens for a reason... Of course its not up to me to decide who deserves what... though again I can speculate... I do love to question why things happen...

thank you for your kind words though... I actually love what I do... knowing that I can bring some comfort to those in need in on their way home... it comes quite naturally to me somehow... never in my life would I have imagined getting into this particular line of work... not to mention its actually the only job I've ever loved.... I don't even like to think of it as a job... more like My work..

but although I do love my work, it weighs heavy on the heart at times...

Originally posted by Akragon


However uneasy it makes many people feel that is my belief... Everything happens for a reason... Of course its not up to me to decide who deserves what... though again I can speculate... I do love to question why things happen...

thank you for your kind words though... I actually love what I do... knowing that I can bring some comfort to those in need in on their way home...

but although I do love my work, it weighs heavy on the heart at times...

It does not weigh heavy on the heart it is heavy on the mind.

Originally posted by BDBinc

Originally posted by Akragon


However uneasy it makes many people feel that is my belief... Everything happens for a reason... Of course its not up to me to decide who deserves what... though again I can speculate... I do love to question why things happen...

thank you for your kind words though... I actually love what I do... knowing that I can bring some comfort to those in need in on their way home...

but although I do love my work, it weighs heavy on the heart at times...

It does not weigh heavy on the heart it is heavy on the mind.

You are incorrect my friend... Its not the mind that aches when sorrow approaches...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by BDBinc

Originally posted by Akragon


However uneasy it makes many people feel that is my belief... Everything happens for a reason... Of course its not up to me to decide who deserves what... though again I can speculate... I do love to question why things happen...

thank you for your kind words though... I actually love what I do... knowing that I can bring some comfort to those in need in on their way home...

but although I do love my work, it weighs heavy on the heart at times...

It does not weigh heavy on the heart it is heavy on the mind.

You are incorrect my friend... Its not the mind that aches when sorrow approaches...

Is sorrow a "thing" that approaches the heart? Does this thing sorrow choose keep away from the mind?

Who you are is untouched by sorrow, who you THINK you are thinks sorrowful (and painful) thoughts .

reply to post by BDBinc


lol... Now you're just drifting into semantics...

Sorrow is a negative vibration... and it causes the heart to ache...

reply to post by BDBinc

We all have different meanings. But the meanings are very interesting in themselves. I would say as someone who has experienced no (self) recognition of being a mind body, no animal instincts and conscience conflicting that not having an ego is blissful and you do no harm as you are not separate and you are not conflicted .

I think being a slave to ego would be hell.

So you would rather not be you, but nothing at all? You would rather become defined by your world than by yourself? That is the very opposite of freedom. You wanna talk about slavery? Your description is the most pervasive form of slavery there is.

reply to post by Akragon

People will not die around me, which is a little weird...

That's what the people I worked with always said.

Me. Day one, non-stop, they'd just wait for me to come on shift. "He's heeeeere. We can go now."

It's not the psychopomp's job to judge, just ferry the boat.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
]




So you would rather not be you, but nothing at all? You would rather become defined by your world than by yourself? That is the very opposite of freedom. You wanna talk about slavery? Your description is the most pervasive form of slavery there is.

What I found out when I forgot everything was that 'I" was not a personality, that I was not what I believed I was (a set of memories in time or just a body mind). So yes I was NO THING.
Do I have a choice in being defined by my world or the idea I am in it? I do not care about others defining me anymore.
Which description is the most pervasive form of slavery?

reply to post by BDBinc

Which description is the most pervasive form of slavery?

When everything defines you but yourself. You have no part in your own identity...and yet, you apparently exist? Yeah.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BDBinc

 

Which description is the most pervasive form of slavery?

When everything defines you but yourself. You have no part in your own identity...and yet, you apparently exist? Yeah.

Yip exactly.
Nothing defines me.
I am.
I exist.
I am being.
I can exist without having a definition.

Does the world come up to you and tell you what you are?

reply to post by BDBinc

What I found out when I forgot everything was that 'I" was not a personality, that I was not what I believed I was (a set of memories in time or just a body mind). So yes I was NO THING.

How did you conduct this experiment?

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by BDBinc

What I found out when I forgot everything was that 'I" was not a personality, that I was not what I believed I was (a set of memories in time or just a body mind). So yes I was NO THING.

How did you conduct this experiment?

It was not an experiment. It happened by "accident".
Physically I had my personality/memories/ and ability to think thoughts erased and the body I was in suffered from "un survivable " injuries.
I don't think the "experiment" is recommended by anyone as a way of finding out who you are.

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by Visitor2012

visitor1012The one that convinces you to feel self-important, and the one that convinces you that you are not important, is the Ego. Another word for Ego, is ignorance or Mind. It's the artificially intelligent version of ourselves, dumbed down to self-deceiving levels.
The only way to kill it, is to ignore it. And even then, it can resurrect itself anytime you believe it to be worthy of attention. To treat it as friend or foe is borderline schizophrenic because the Ego is just an imagined version of who you think you are and what everything else is. It's the invisible little friend or enemy you're talking to in your head, or fighting with. Or boogeyman. When engaging the illusion called Ego, the nut ward is not too far away from this type of karma.

So, the Ego can be self gratifying, or can also be the source of the destruction of 'self image''. If its artificial that conotes "FICTIONAL". How does it become a dumbed down version of ourselves or the deciever? Why would one want to 'kill' ones own ego, anothers perhaps; as this makes no sense. You are saying the Ego is self sabotaging and needs to be eliminated. Where are our higher selves while this "war within oneself dialog" is playing out? Are you saying the Ego: The 'Iam' factor of myself as a self realized person separate from others in thinking, feeling and through self will (that thought needs to be ignored?), and if so how will I distinquish myself from others, or am I supposed to; as everyone else will have nuetralized their egos, I would keep mine in order to know the difference and possibly have an advantage.

edit on 29-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I'm saying the Ego is an illusion. I didn't say it should be eliminated, I didn't say it should be coddled, I'm saying it does not exist and never did. It's a pure psychological phenomenon, with no existence in reality. Whatever a person thinks they are or this is, has no bases on reality whatsoever. I'm not trying to convince you of this.

Thats fine because you never will, unless you are as brilliant as Freud or Jung in discribing how it does NOT exist. "whatever a person thinks they are or this is, has not bases on reality". What makes you think THIS is REALITY and not a stage play; we as actors playing the parts of ourselves through this (you are star) progression of your soul?

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by Visitor2012

visitor1012The one that convinces you to feel self-important, and the one that convinces you that you are not important, is the Ego. Another word for Ego, is ignorance or Mind. It's the artificially intelligent version of ourselves, dumbed down to self-deceiving levels.
The only way to kill it, is to ignore it. And even then, it can resurrect itself anytime you believe it to be worthy of attention. To treat it as friend or foe is borderline schizophrenic because the Ego is just an imagined version of who you think you are and what everything else is. It's the invisible little friend or enemy you're talking to in your head, or fighting with. Or boogeyman. When engaging the illusion called Ego, the nut ward is not too far away from this type of karma.

So, the Ego can be self gratifying, or can also be the source of the destruction of 'self image''. If its artificial that conotes "FICTIONAL". How does it become a dumbed down version of ourselves or the deciever? Why would one want to 'kill' ones own ego, anothers perhaps; as this makes no sense. You are saying the Ego is self sabotaging and needs to be eliminated. Where are our higher selves while this "war within oneself dialog" is playing out? Are you saying the Ego: The 'Iam' factor of myself as a self realized person separate from others in thinking, feeling and through self will (that thought needs to be ignored?), and if so how will I distinquish myself from others, or am I supposed to; as everyone else will have nuetralized their egos, I would keep mine in order to know the difference and possibly have an advantage.

edit on 29-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I'm saying the Ego is an illusion. I didn't say it should be eliminated, I didn't say it should be coddled, I'm saying it does not exist and never did. It's a pure psychological phenomenon, with no existence in reality. Whatever a person thinks they are or this is, has no bases on reality whatsoever. I'm not trying to convince you of this.

Thats fine because you never will, unless you are as brilliant as Freud or Jung in discribing how it does NOT exist. "whatever a person thinks they are or this is, has not bases on reality". What makes you think THIS is REALITY and not a stage play; we as actors playing the parts of ourselves through this (you are star) progression of your soul?

What's the 'THIS' you're referring to? I view this entire Universe as a stage play, with everything given the illusion of being separate. And everything, including mind is pure illusion.

What makes you think THIS is REALITY and not a stage play; we as actors playing the parts of ourselves through this (you are star) progression of your soul?

Sorry sir, you're not fooling me with that spiritual/philosophical duality-laden nonsense. If you were to believe that your soul is progressing, that is also Maya/illusion. All belief is Maya as descriptions of reality are.

I truly don't know what it is you're arguing about. Besides, who needs to be explained how Yesterday and Tomorrow does not exist? You don't have to be Freud or Jung to know that. Anyone with half a brain can see that. Everything outside of Now, is a visualization or projection of the Mind, thought, memory. That's it. Nothing mystical or clever about it. Why is Jung's 'brilliance' needed for something so simple and obvious? I'm curious to know your answer to that question.

Only a fool can't tell the difference between a concept and reality. Tomorrow and yesterday are concepts. Concepts born from the perception of Time. Perceptions (sometimes referred to as dimensions) are ALSO not reality. It's Maya.

There is no past or future as an existential phenomenon, it is always just a projection of mind that occurs in the Now. Concepts do not exist, they're not meant to exist. They are forms of communication. If you can find a yesterday, tomorrow, today, inch, mile, or minute in reality then I'll retract my statement. Until then..