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Christians, did ya vote Bush? One up for God?

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posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:26 AM
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So every thread I post I have to list every reason I support Bush?

I can't just generalize the comment to "I thought he was the best man for the job?" I would only be able to post once a day if this were the case as my one post would be like three pages long.

Can you see my reasoning here?




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
You mean this problem didn't exist before Bush? Pretty big statement there


Are you saying problem? Or problems? Because there were problems before Bush got into office, not just a problem... It's been going on for years, and the foreign policy has always changed,but one thing that hasn't is the interference in other countries, that breeds hostility towards us, which in ending, has and will continue to breed a reaction, we've got hit already because of it, and now we're continuing on a destructive path.

If countries were to come into America and interfere with the way things were runs don't you think that would create hostility??


Mybe I should have phrased my wording better "I voted Bush beccause he was the best man for the job. In my opinion." But I figured most people would be able to figure that out


I hear people say the exact same thing all the time...

But why? In your opinion, how is he the best man from the job?



Yes, I do reap what I sow. I am enjoying it ATM. America is better off now with Bush. IN MY OPINION. Do I have to start saying that after every comment I make now or what?


You reap what you sow so now your enjoying it at the ATM?? wtf does this have to do with this topic??



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:31 AM
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What does your argument right now have to do with the thread? Quit being so hypocritical. You've read all my posts on why I support Bush, as almost everyone here has, why do I need to keep repeating myself?



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Iraq was not based off false pretenses. The war in Iraq is JUST and
necessary. The whole world looked at it and
said ... NEVER AGAIN.



The whole world looked at it and said NEVER AGAIN???

The whole world as in what countries???

ps: If the USA really gave a # about mass murders, don't you think they would of been over in Iraq to open a can of whoop ass on Sadam after he gassed the kurds?

What about in Africa, it's FAR WORSE there then in Iraq right now, I don't see the USA going over there to say NEVER AGAIN...

What's up with that? Or is it because they dont' have the oil?

Also I really hope your not saying the whole world as in the USA, because that would be quite ignorant.

And if the USA said NEVER AGAIN,
why wouldn't that be the initial reason for going into Iraq then??



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043In your views killing innocent Iraqis for (freedom) is ok, may be in the beginning of the invasion was ok, but now is just outrageous.

And for money been stolen that is fine once Bush privatized their natural resources and give to American base oil companies ... we forced (liberation) on them.

it was never the liberation of the people it was the liberation of their oil to possible partnership of (other) European countries but not US.


Hi Marg!

Innocent Iraqis will die in their quest for freedom. That has always
been what happens. When America gained her freedom from England
we had innocent people die. Everyone has innocent people die when
they are trying to be free. It's the cost of freedom. It isn't
'outrageous' ... it's expected. No one becomes free, for free. It costs
dearly.

We didn't 'FORCE' freedom upon Iraq. They wanted it. They welcomed
our liberating troops. They pulled down Saddams statue with our help,
but THEY are the ones that initiated the pull down and THEY are the ones
that came to the Americans sitting in the tank and said 'HELP US'. They
wanted their schools and hospitals to be free of explosives. They wanted
their wives and daughters to be free of fear of rape and torture at
Oday and Qusays whims. They are the ones that said France was wrong
to want to continue it's partnership with Saddam.

I don't follow you on the 'privatized Iraqi natural resources' and that
we are stealing from them. Am I reading you correctly or have I
misunderstood? Saddam and the U.N. were stealing BILLIONS from
the Iraqis. This was OKAY? We went in and we are now securing
the oil fields and pipelines ... we are teaching Iraqis how to be
security for their own fields and pipelines. This is bad? We should
have left Saddam and the U.N. stealing it? I don't follow you here.

I also don't follow on what you said about it never being liberation
of people, only of their oil to Europe. Could you say a little more
here, because I don't understand what exactly you are saying.
Thanks. (BTW - I LOVE your avatars!!!)



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:51 AM
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Well, the beauty of the invasion is that now the oil base companies in US are going to have a piece of the pie in Iraq.

Something that sadam will never had allowed, he was doing business with eruropean nations and that is were the euro conversion was going to happen US invaded at the right time to avoid that and to take hold of the drilling in Iraq.

Now US base oil companies I mean all of them are going to be able tap into it, that is why I said that is has always been about the oil in that country and the struggle to control it.

thanks for the coments on the avatar, is ok we don't need to agree on this that is why we are individuals with diferent views and opinions. this is a link of the plans for privatization.


www.commondreams.org...




[edit on 8-11-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
The whole world as in what countries??? What about in Africa, it's FAR WORSE there then in Iraq right now ... I really hope your not saying the whole world as in the USA, because that would be quite ignorant.

And if the USA said NEVER AGAIN, why wouldn't that be the initial
reason for going into Iraq then??


When the concentration camps in Germany were discovered, those
who liberated the camps along with the Germans who were shocked
by the camps because they didn't know, all said 'NEVER AGAIN'.
France said NEVER AGAIN. Germany (those civilians who didn't know
what was going on in their country) said NEVER AGAIN. America
said NEVER AGAIN. Europe in general said NEVER AGAIN. As time
went by, and different Westernized countries throughout the world
saw the horror of the 6 million Jews, hundreds of thousands of
Catholics, tens of thousands of handicapped, etc. who had been
butchered ... Canada, Australia, and others started shouting
NEVER AGAIN.

Your statement - 'I really hope your not saying the whole world
as in the USA, because that would be quite ignorant' - was VERY
out of place. It was assuming and, honestly, rather obnoxious.
I never said any such thing that America was 'the whole world'.
Shame on you.

You are right that Africa is in a bad situation. Where the heck is
the U.N.? No where as usual. I know John Kerry spoke about the
need to get into Africa and provide relief for the situation there.
At this point, it would be impossible for America to go and help
end the slaughter, we are too short of troops and $$$. It needs
to be done. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the rest of the world
stepped up to the plate and helped out for a change, instead of
it always being American $$$ and American blood that liberates
the poor around the world. We'd have to draft to get it done.
R U willing to support a draft to get enough troops to help
liberate the poor people in Africa as well as Iraq?

As far as the 'initial reason' for going into Iraq not being 'never
again' .... The data showed that Saddam was a clear and immenent
danger to America and our allies and interests. It is MUCH easier
and quicker for Congress and America to approve of funding and
American troops (and American deaths) to counter a 'clear and immenent' danger. Funding and American troops for a 'never again' are more complicated (partisanship bickering) Bill Clinton managed it with Kosovo. He was able to get us in to end the slaughter under Slobo ... he went in without any help from the UN. Americans were generally split over his going in. He didn't make the case well enough to the American public to get the support. Bush made the case for Iraq two pronged - 'clear danger' and 'never again'. Either case has full merit on it's own.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Sorry we disagree on this FlyersFan, not hard feelings


You have a kind heart. I understand where you are coming
from. I just disagree with it because I see things differently.
You are a sweet person.
I highly doubt I could have
hard feelings towards you. *warm fuzzies sent your way*



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well, the beauty of the invasion is that now the oil base companies in US are going to have a piece of the pie in Iraq.

Now US base oil companies I mean all of them are going to be able tap into it, that is why I said that is has always been about the oil in that country and the struggle to control it.


I think I see what you are saying.

There isn't anything wrong with American oil companies working
with Iraqi companies. Capitalism. Only NOW, the Iraqis will
keep their money instead of it being stolen by the U.N. Their
standard of living should improve over time.

IF America really had a 'pipeline' of Iraqi oil straight to America,
the price of gas and home heating oil would be going down some.
Iraq has ... what ... 8% of the world oil, or something like that?
If we had that oil cheaper ... I think we'd see a price difference
at the gas stations. Right now ... I see it still way up. We
have been 'on top' in Iraq for over a year. I have only seen prices
go up in the past year.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
The data showed that Saddam was a clear and immenent
danger to America and our allies and interests.

Exactly what data proving Iraq as an imminent threat to the US and its allies are you referring to (i.e. undeniable credible evidence)?



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Durden
(i.e. undeniable credible evidence)?


It wasn't credible. The question was why didn't we use
'never again' going into Iraq. The reason was because we
used 'clear and present danger' AND 'never again'. The
clear and present danger turned out to be more of a
'terrorist support' thing. (Saddam giving $50,000 to
families of palestinian homicide bombers, Saddam financing
terrorism and weapon running)



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
The clear and present danger turned out to be more of a
'terrorist support' thing. (Saddam giving $50,000 to
families of palestinian homicide bombers, Saddam financing
terrorism and weapon running)

A 'terrorist support' thing? And this is what you'd call evidence of an imminent threat to the US and its allies?



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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WOAH - didn't mean to cause such hostilities. Looks like a country divided - planned?

I realize rense.com is not the most reliable source of info, but I do like what some people write in to him.

I was outraged when a home-fellowship meeting had a prayer asking God to get Bush re-elected, on the grounds of his honesty, morals and beliefs. Others backed up this prayer with 'amen' and 'thank you God'. I just feel that if you vote for someone, you share in their sins too. I did not vote for Bush OR Kerry, because I will not be apart of this.

I also was NOT referring to Bush as the anti-Christ. Daniels, Revelations and others books talk of many false prophets and those that 'come in my name'. Funny, it also says that many will follow them - I now see how.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
When the concentration camps in Germany were discovered, those
who liberated the camps along with the Germans who were shocked
by the camps because they didn't know, all said 'NEVER AGAIN'.
France said NEVER AGAIN. Germany (those civilians who didn't know
what was going on in their country) said NEVER AGAIN. America
said NEVER AGAIN. Europe in general said NEVER AGAIN. As time
went by, and different Westernized countries throughout the world
saw the horror of the 6 million Jews, hundreds of thousands of
Catholics, tens of thousands of handicapped, etc. who had been
butchered ... Canada, Australia, and others started shouting
NEVER AGAIN.



Your really caught up in that soundbyte aren't you... Let's count how many Never Again's are in your argument... This is an argument based off emotion.
I can't debate with you if your going to get all emotional...

If you look at the facts, these countries shouting never again are indeed letting it happen again and again all over the world...



Your statement - 'I really hope your not saying the whole world
as in the USA, because that would be quite ignorant' - was VERY
out of place. It was assuming and, honestly, rather obnoxious.
I never said any such thing that America was 'the whole world'.
Shame on you.


I don't think it was obnoxious at all... Can you define the word obnoxious and then come back and honestly tell me that was "obnoxious" you didn't provide examples for your theory and which led me to ask a simple question you got offended over. Shame on me? Shame on you... Don't spout things out if your not going to provide examples to back your claim up...


You are right that Africa is in a bad situation. Where the heck is
the U.N.? No where as usual. I know John Kerry spoke about the
need to get into Africa and provide relief for the situation there.
At this point, it would be impossible for America to go and help
end the slaughter, we are too short of troops and $$$. It needs
to be done. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the rest of the world
stepped up to the plate and helped out for a change, instead of
it always being American $$$ and American blood that liberates
the poor around the world.



I find it funny you mention all these countries that stand up and shouted NEVER AGAIN, and yet these poor souls in Africa are being slaughtered because of their religion and race....

Well guess what... It's happening AGAIN and AGAIN....

I guess there's a double standard here....



As far as the 'initial reason' for going into Iraq not being 'never
again' .... The data showed that Saddam was a clear and immenent
danger to America and our allies and interests.


Which time?? This argument is flawed because they were wish washy on this issue...If you bothered to be objective you would of seen this. I understand that partisan politics plays a big part in closed mindedness though and is easier to get society's backing...

You know who's an imminent threat? Bin Laden and his cronies? Why? Because their still loose and still planning terrorist attacks on us and other countries? Why we use all our resources in Iraq? Why all the focus and monetary resources on catching Hussein? He didn't attack the wtc or US embassies around the world...

Bin Laden was and still is an imminent threat and he's still loose and his sleeper cells are still in America...

Bush is a dolt and is bankrupting this country, we has a surplus when clinton ended his presidency and now we have a deficit... Because of an unjust war.

It's nice to feel like we're helping the Iraq's become free, but they didn't give a rats ass about them when Sadam gased the kurd's, and he didn't care about it in 2000 before 9-11 ...

He needed a reason to go in, he got one, and our attention has been diverted... That is a fact.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by godservant
WOAH - didn't mean to cause such hostilities. Looks like a country divided - planned?


As long as party politics existed there has been division...

This is no different from 50 years ago and beyond.



I was outraged when a home-fellowship meeting had a prayer asking God to get Bush re-elected, on the grounds of his honesty, morals and beliefs. Others backed up this prayer with 'amen' and 'thank you God'. I just feel that if you vote for someone, you share in their sins too. I did not vote for Bush OR Kerry, because I will not be apart of this.


I agree...



I also was NOT referring to Bush as the anti-Christ. Daniels, Revelations and others books talk of many false prophets and those that 'come in my name'. Funny, it also says that many will follow them - I now see how.


Yes sir. It's absolutely amazing... And not in a good way.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by godservant
Churches all over support Bush and voted as such. Churches are against homosexuality and abortion and hope Bush will outlaw them. A president who will mix Gods law into mans laws - a president who has good moral values, who is honest and cares about us - the people. Finally, a president that will do God's work



Hello! I believe what we have here as far as the 2004 elections is a close tie between the devil and God. Not Kerry and Bush. And God prevailed obviously and placed the most morale person in office during the "end times".

Abortion and Christanity are reasons for my voting for Bush along with the gay marriage ban! I have been rejoicing since Bush's (the good Lord aboves Win!) victory. He is a family and moral man and believes in the sanctity of marriage, honesty, anti-choice/pro life. He is going back to the beliefs of our founding fathers of the U.S.A.

Of course since God is with Bush the world hates him because they don't want to turn to the bible and away from their vile-sinful lifestyles that are abominable to God. Jesus was hated by the world too. Doesn't it make since when you are born again TRULY through the blood of Christ the world would hate you too? Well, that is Bush. Wake-up. Bush sincerely cares about this nation because he has the love of God living within him. So, it is ones choice to accept Christ or not. If not they send themselves to hell by living in opposition to Gods rule. Don't blame him.

God Bless,


From www.rense.com...

However, what about the fact that Christians call themselves such because they follow the examples and teachings of Christ. He did not force his teachings on ANYONE - he taught, then walked away. There is a clear freedom of choice here. Everyone knows what most Christians think about abortion and the 'gayness', but should we force this on others? If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get an abortion. If you don't think homosexuality is right, then don't kiss anyone with a set of matching genitals. If you think they will go to hell, then let them - it is NOT your soul. You cannot force someone else into heaven.



Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs (self anointed), and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Did you all forget that false christs and antichrists will come BEFORE the real one does? You DO believe in the bible, right? It says they will come and it is very important that we do not support them.

Remember, politics and religion should be very separate. Many of you voted on a man who killing thousands while it is said "Love your enemies".

"The new Jesus is a warlord, who calls upon his earthly minions to smite evil -- whereas the Jesus of scripture says the exact opposite. The new Jesus desires to see government conformed to Christianity -- whereas the Jesus of scripture had no regard for earthly goverment, neither did any of his Apostles seek to change government."

--------------------------------
Here are some very good quotes from "Bush-Voting Christians Have Lost Their Souls" (should read)



Jesus Christ did not "fight back". He did not "kick ass". He did not endeavor to destroy his enemies, or support those that were doing so. Rather, He COMMANDED us as Christians to LOVE them. UNCONDITIONALLY, as He loves us.




The AntiChrist will not come saying "I am evil, follow me". On the contrary, he will say "I am good personified, I will make the world a better place and give all that believe in me and support me everything they want that is good. I will protect the weak and innocent and make peace, and destroy all evildoers."


Like I said, remember that many will come in his name and false prophets, and many other things BEFORE the real one comes. Don't be stupid or blind.

WAKE UP MAN!!


ANYWAY...........back to the topic....ahem! I for one, would like to say that I'm a serious christian who proudly did NOT vote for Bush. I voted for Badnarik, and was seriously thinking about voting for the constitutional party as well, because those are the ways a christian should vote if they're concerned about morals and such.

Godservant, that person that said that Bush vs Kerry is like God vs Satan is completely and totally out of their wits. They are naive, and blinded by the true persona of Bush, because they see a man who says he's a christian (big deal, anyone can say that), and granted he's against abortion and gay marriage, but that DOES NOT justify or make well all the other things he's done! And I'm not just talking about the Iraq war and such. He's in skull and bones, a very ritualistic and occult society. He goes to Bohemian Grove and attends the mock sacrifices to the god molech (which is actually a pagan god that is touched on in the old testament!) and he calls himself a christian????! I just saw recent footage of him flipping off a camera! What's with that? This man is a phony.

Even if he WAS a great guy, it STILL would be incredibly stupid to say that God wants him to be president, or that he's on God's side. How could we ever possibly know what God's agenda is? We know what He desires on a general and overall scale, but not stupid details like who He wants to be leader for a country for 4 to 8 years out of all of history! How arrogant and ignorant to assume such things.

Christians, just like any group of people, can be fooled fairly easily throughout life. Christians in fact, are no better than anyone else. The difference is that we've accepted God's offered help through His son to overcome all our selfishness, faults, weaknesses and sin. But the fact remains, that we STILL sin, can be fools, and make mistakes. I want non-christians to realize that reality. If a christian somehow gives off a sense, or even implies, that they are a better person than others because they are christian, then they are wrong. Some do it by accident, and don't try and seem like they are above the rest, some actually do it on purpose, and with those people you have to question seriously as to whether they really subscribe to the teachings of Jesus.

The point of christianity, and the whole purpose that Jesus fulfilled and taught, was not that once you become christians, that you are more valued by God and that you're more perfect or whatever, rather, the point is to provide a cure to the sin that we all commit, so that we can rebridge the gap that we made with the God who created us, because that is what He desires out of love.

So, in regards to Bush, I would say that's a big mistake that many christians have made. However, I believe that it was an innocent one, one that is thought to be "right", but a mistake all the same. Most people in this nation, people from every kind of group that have a home here in the US, are in need of waking up to the true state of our union, and how close it is to being completely void of the constitution, and the original vision that our founding fathers, and those who died for it had.

Godservant, good thread my friend. You brought up crucial points and it needed to be said, especially by a christian. Thanks.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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All this is so sad and while we talk about the victims of desimation of time past, are we listening to the victims of decimation now, their voices in african screaming enought is enought, how about the Iraqis right now pleading to the US governement to stop the killings the destructions of their cities they are also screaming enought is enought, very soon they will screan in anguish,

(Just take our oil and leave us alone)


Is Mr. Bush so closed to his God that he will listen or is he just to invloved on the God of big corporations (Greed)



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
on this earth to do God's work in our government needs to get off the shroom juice. GWB is no closer to God than my German Shepherd. Those who join Bush in preaching hatred towards gays and other groups of people are complete Hippocrits, Jesus never preached hatred towards his fellow man, he in fact condemed it.


RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who said that Christianism and catholic religion AS IT IS TODAY is the "good" religion?????
I have gay friends, I have girl friends who got abortions, nobody knows if it's good or bad hein! If it happened to you, you might change your mind..it's so easy to hate and judge what you don't understand! Who told you that????the bible!!!!!! That book that was rewritten thousand of times by probably some illuminati freaks
I beleive in my own spirituality, I connect with god and I judge no one! Jesus must be really sad today to see so much hate between humans beigns, we r all sons and daughters of GOD wheter u like it or not!!!God forgive everyone....christians, gays, prostitutes, bad guys...

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies


What about in Africa, it's FAR WORSE there then in Iraq right now, I don't see the USA going over there to say NEVER AGAIN...



I don't think the Africans are supporting and advocating terrorist attacks against the US. I do hope we help with the current situation in Africa too however.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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I don't like the way that some Christians (and others of differing religious persuasion) seem to imply that theirs is the only relationship with God that counts, that their moral spectrum is the only one that's relevant. That's spiritual elitism and elitsm only leads to suppression or alienation of those not a part of that particular group. How can any one group Christian, Muslim, New Age or Hindu know their path is the only correct one when God and the spiritual workings of the universe must be so vast and almost incomprehensible to us that all you can hope to do is make a choice and believe/hope it is right one for you, not concerning yourself with what path, religious or secular, that others choose. Who is so arragant that they can define what an acceptable personal moral choice is then inflict it on the rest of the world. That's why religion and politics should not be mixed. Why can't people accept that.



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