Religion.

reply to post by wissy
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not all religions are like that

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

Your thoughts revolve around the other person, including your own lack of freedom bound by law. People do not bind you by law. Nature accomplishes this by allowing you freedom as an electron. Why do I use the electron (-) as an example? If you reduce all reality to the fundamental starting point, you then see why you are the reflection of this three-fold binding. Hydrogen starts with one proton (+) and one electron (-) in a balanced state. Once hydrogen is released from the star, it is bound by the neutron in cohesion with the proton. A neutron has two down quarks and one up quark. A Proton is mirrored by this and has two up quarks and one down. The strong nuclear force of the neutron and proton draw in the electron.

I explain this here: Prospiracy

Why does this matter for your comments about Christians?

Christians are trying to rise to the Proton (Son of God) and the Neutral (God). We are the ones with free will (Electron). An Atheist is trying to run away from the mean in the center (Attractive force of Cohesion). In both cases, the Neutron and Proton will send us back (Repulsion) until we mirror the three-fold cord. Each of the ones in the nucleus have a three-fold cord of two over one. This is true unity and balance. As an Electron, all of us are outside this as multiplicity and division. You are no different in judging a Christian than a Christian is for judging you. You are both in this together. A Christian simply chooses to rise in the waters of life.

You want your freedom. That's fine. When you come to realize that the law will draw you back, you will eventually see the value in obeying it. We are all bound by the laws of nature and I show you the law in root position. If you understand what the law is trying to accomplish with you, you might learn something about rising to new life from the experience. Christians are learning this daily. It's the point of life. Faith is love above the need for law from the three-fold cord of unity with God. None of us are there yet.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are all children of God until we are no longer children. God hands the inheritance to us when we grow up and follow His perfect law. Check the link above. It goes into detail on this idea of natural law governing our faith toward or away from God.

Those 'laws' you were talking about seem to me like another made-up concept for you to say "I'm right, everyone else is wrong". I doubt there is a 'natural force' drawing me towards dogma and ignorance.

Faith is love above the need for law from the three-fold cord of unity with God. None of us are there yet.

Actually, there have been millions of people throughout history that have reached God consciousness, and it had absolutely nothing to do with faith in any particular system or religion. Just to name a few:

Krishna
Gautama Siddhartha
Mother Mary
Jesus of Nazareth
Moses
Babaji
Patanjali
Sai Baba
Paramahansa Yogananda
Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)
Sadhguru (Jaggi Vasudev)
Pamela Wilson
Isha Judd
Eckharte Tolle
and finally, the great anti-philosopher U.G. Krishnamurti

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Just because religion isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the hundreds of different wars, conquests, and revolutions in the name of faith. If you can't see that, than your knowledge of history is severely lacking.

Just because science isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the thousands of wars, conquests, and revolutions that have been carried out using technology created by science. If you can't see that, than your perception of reality is severely handicapped.

Originally posted by libertytoall
Just because science isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the thousands of wars, conquests, and revolutions that have been carried out using technology created by science. If you can't see that, than your perception of reality is severely handicapped.

------------------

Originally posted by HarryTZ
I agree, the way our world's societies are run today obviously does not work and we need a global change. But I think a good place to start is the annihilation of religion. That may sound very extreme but until we completely destroy all of the ignorance-based duality we are going to get nowhere. Then we can move on to the annihilation of government as we know it, for the same reason. All in the name of unity.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
Just because religion isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the hundreds of different wars, conquests, and revolutions in the name of faith. If you can't see that, than your knowledge of history is severely lacking.

To be honest, in order for you to be completely fair and balanced, you should consider 80% of science as a religion as well and the products of human mutilation(war) that grows exponentially throughout time. Some people give to God with all of their hearts and become numb to self morality. Some people become so entrenched in science and achievement that they lose sight of self morality.

reply to post by libertytoall

I have no problem with that, especially when it comes to quantum physics. They try and leave out consciousness and wonder why they aren't getting anywhere. Like I said earlier, it's time for a paradigm shift.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by libertytoall

 

I have no problem with that, especially when it comes to quantum physics. They try and leave out consciousness and wonder why they aren't getting anywhere. Like I said earlier, it's time for a paradigm shift.

edit on 27-6-2013 by HarryTZ because: (no reason given)

The human body is electrical. It's my opinion consciousness is nothing more than a computer processor with memory function and a power supply. Within 90 years we will be shedding our bodies on demand for more non biological skeletons. We will achieve consciousness through the cloud and we humans will be infinitely more stupid than the computers that control us.

reply to post by libertytoall


Consciousness doesn't work like that. It's not a 'thing' or set of data that can be uploaded anywhere.

reply to post by HarryTZ



If you understood my last post and the link to Adhesion, Cohesion, Repulsion and Attraction, then consider this: Symmetry of objects in nature adhere to law, just as the law itself has symmetry. God has shown us a perfected law that governs nature with unity. Forget the people taking the name of Christ that do not adhere to this law. None of us do. As I said before, we are all in this together. Christ is the Son of God and is the Shepherd of the process. It is possible to take the name of Christ in vain (Apart from the Character it demands). When you look at the five shapes in nature, we see the following:

The Tetrahedron
The Cube
The Octahedron
The Polyhedron, and
The Dodecahedron

Each of these shapes mirror God. When you look at the lesser case of anything, you can then see the greater case. As above, so below. The key to this principle of symmetry is invariance. If you rotate any of these shapes, they are the same (unified, balanced, symmetric) at all perspectives. God is Eternal and does not have variance. He is eternally the same from all perspectives. We, on the other hand, are not set variables. Law governs us continually and moves us to invariance. If we refuse this work of faith, we wander as irregular all our lives. A person that lacks the refiner's work are unshaped lumps of clay.

I did an excellent thread on this topic based on one verse from the Gospel of Philip.

Glass and Ceramic from the Breath of God

Originally posted by libertytoall

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Just because religion isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the hundreds of different wars, conquests, and revolutions in the name of faith. If you can't see that, than your knowledge of history is severely lacking.

Just because science isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the thousands of wars, conquests, and revolutions that have been carried out using technology created by science. If you can't see that, than your perception of reality is severely handicapped.

What would happen if we took away science? Less wars based on science, right?

What would happen if we got rid of religion? Less wars based on religion, right.

Problem is, we can't get rid of science, but...

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

If you understood my last post and the link to Adhesion, Cohesion, Repulsion and Attraction, then consider this: Symmetry of objects in nature adhere to law, just as the law itself has symmetry. God has shown us a perfected law that governs nature with unity. Forget the people taking the name of Christ that do not adhere to this law. None of us do. As I said before, we are all in this together. Christ is the Son of God and is the Shepherd of the process. It is possible to take the name of Christ in vain (Apart from the Character it demands). When you look at the five shapes in nature, we see the following:

The Tetrahedron
The Cube
The Octahedron
The Polyhedron, and
The Dodecahedron

Each of these shapes mirror God. When you look at the lesser case of anything, you can then see the greater case. As above, so below. The key to this principle of symmetry is invariance. If you rotate any of these shapes, they are the same (unified, balanced, symmetric) at all perspectives. God is Eternal and does not have variance. He is eternally the same from all perspectives. We, on the other hand, are not set variables. Law governs us continually and moves us to invariance. If we refuse this work of faith, we wander as irregular all our lives. A person that lacks the refiner's work are unshaped lumps of clay.

I did an excellent thread on this topic based on one verse from the Gospel of Philip.

Glass and Ceramic from the Breath of God

edit on 27-6-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

What has this to do with anything that I have said? You don't even sound like a Christian to me at all (besides your obsession with Jesus).

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by libertytoall

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Just because religion isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the hundreds of different wars, conquests, and revolutions in the name of faith. If you can't see that, than your knowledge of history is severely lacking.

Just because science isn't the only cause of violence doesn't negate the thousands of wars, conquests, and revolutions that have been carried out using technology created by science. If you can't see that, than your perception of reality is severely handicapped.

What would happen if we took away science? Less wars based on science, right?

What would happen if we got rid of religion? Less wars based on religion, right.

Problem is, we can't get rid of science, but...

What you're doing is the same as blaming the gun of the knife when a murder occurs rather than the person wielding the weapon and carrying out the crime.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I feel you are so close on the right track but need the push to the last levels of superconsciousness, where you will realize that Christ and many others are on a mission that far is different than you believe.

If you have felt the awesome effects of pure '___', your entire premise will change, since your eyes will be opened widest, and then forever the world will recognize the hologram it has been TRULY was hi-jacked, and represents nothing any religions would tell us...even SRF is afraid to go the deepest.

Limitless is a reality that should be strived for, and can only be when one tosses all the false ties , that pretend to set free, but never can.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
What are all of the worlds religions good for? They hide people from themselves and allow them to construct a fake relationship with a god or set of gods that we can't even be sure exists. Religion creates a strict set of boundaries for its followers and tells them to fear rejection, punishment, or damnation if they step out of line.

But isn't it human nature to want to be completely free? With no rules or limits or boundaries? The gods that humanity creates are really just guises for what we aspire to be, what we wish that we were. But in creating these systems we are only pushing away from ourselves that which we desire most. Life isn't organized, there are no 'rules' or 'systems' in life. Why can't our religions be like that?

Religion should be based on what we DO know... ourselves. Not on bowing down to and living in fear of a jealous angry god that probably isn't even there. All you know that exists for sure is your own consciousness, so maybe we should start worship ourselves instead.

edit on 27-6-2013 by HarryTZ because: paragraphing

I have to agree, on just about everything here. Ironically enough, what you're describing sounds like Thelema. Which sounds like a religion, but it's really a non-religion religion...But it's not a religion in the conventional sense.

It is a system that advocates complete personal freedom, with axioms such as "The word of Sin is restriction." Basically underlying what you said about humans needing complete freedom.

Their motto, "Do what thou wilt" literally means to fulfill your true will. True will means destiny, and not just any destiny, but your designed purpose, the highest possible path one could take in life. Divine destiny.

reply to post by Kody27


The thing is you are not doing anything. It is done.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Kody27

 

The thing is you are not doing anything. It is done.

The potential is there, but you have to consciously choose to acknowledge it. There is free will involved, regardless of some ancient and irrelevant belief that our entire lives are predestined.

Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I feel you are so close on the right track but need the push to the last levels of superconsciousness, where you will realize that Christ and many others are on a mission that far is different than you believe.

If you have felt the awesome effects of pure '___', your entire premise will change, since your eyes will be opened widest, and then forever the world will recognize the hologram it has been TRULY was hi-jacked, and represents nothing any religions would tell us...even SRF is afraid to go the deepest.

Limitless is a reality that should be strived for, and can only be when one tosses all the false ties , that pretend to set free, but never can.

I get what you are saying, yet the gate of the sheep is one gate. We cannot go over the wall, yet some think they already have succeeded in this. It's not the path. Only one pat exists. I am famaliar with the path you are speaking of and it's a dead end. The path forward is one way that dead ends. The path to the left is a hall of mirrors. The path to the right is unity with multiplicity. God is invariable symmetry. This is true. Christ is the image of God with the electron of free will (Weak Force), yet He IS one with God. Esau and Jacob: LINK to Jacob and Esau from the Show Lost

If you know the Mystery School Religion, then you are aware of the worthless mystery as stated by Enoch. If you know the story of Jacob to Christ, you know the true mystery revealed and the Shepherd is the Son raising humanity. The mirror of this is the Mystery Religion and Easter Way that suggest you can reach God on your own. Not true. Christ is the Way (Eastern), the Truth (Western) and the Life (Two becoming one). Truth is Aleph, Mem, Tav. Aleph and Tav are beginning and end. Mem is the waters of life. We are involved (Baptized) to evolve (Rise to new life). This is the mystery revealed.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
What are all of the worlds religions good for?
But isn't it human nature to want to be completely free? With no rules or limits or boundaries?

Religions are useful tools for some people, in certain contexts.

For one, in answer to the second question there- No, human nature does not search to be completely free.
Remember that to be "completely free" (in the sense you used it) is also to be completely without any protection or security. No walls, no limits, no anchors, no ties.
Part of human nature seeks security as part of survival instinct, and if it doesn't get it from a religion it can get it from other types of dogmas, ideologies, clubs, societies, sciences, shared paradigms, or even personal philosophies.

These all can serve to provide invisible walls and limits of ethic and moral, and world view. With a framework of this sort, we have a reference within which we limit our selves and our actions.

Some people prefer to make up their own, some prefer to adopt a ""tried and tested" system that has been formed and molded over generations.

Furthermore, religion and faith are useful in the development of skills in endurance and delayed gratification.
Ones develops the ability to hold in mind a focus which remains stable, despite movement and changes, or even discomfort, that might be happening outside, to them and in their environment. People who have been in emergency situations where they were injured and had to wait long periods of time before being rescued often find this a valuable tool.

I do not think that psychological tools need to be held onto for a lifetime, Coping skills may have a time and place when they are appropriate, and another when they should be let go. Just like medications- you take the ones you need when sick and STOP taking it when you are not.

I have always sort of felt that religions might be especially well suited for children, and that part of growing up (in adolescence) is graduating from that framework, and forming your own philosophy, world view, or ideology.
But having had one supplied for you first gives you the skills needed to do so.

But a lot of people just graduate to other ideologies, philosophies, political parties, that are already existing out there.... and I guess that is not really bad. We don't all have to be creative self made types. -And perhaps there is some value to the tried and tested methods that have been honed down and tweaked by others through time- makes for less risky experimentation and failures!

On the subject of "freedom" a lot could be explored too- for one can have freedom while subjugated to another- freedom from responsibility, for example, freedom from dangers or threats.
A person can go on and on about their precious freedom, and yet they want a gun for security, and are willing to deal with all the constraints and responsibilities that go with that.

Or the freedom to not pay for other citizens medical care, yet willing to accept the responsibilities, constraints and limits that go with that (having to fidn their own insurance coverage, having to pay for it, not being able to go to any hospital or doctor they want, being limited to those their insurance accepts....)


Lots of people use the term without really thinking too much about it.

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Kody27

 

The thing is you are not doing anything. It is done.

The potential is there, but you have to consciously choose to acknowledge it. There is free will involved, regardless of some ancient and irrelevant belief that our entire lives are predestined.

There is only the present happening. No one is doing it.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Kody27

 

The thing is you are not doing anything. It is done.

The potential is there, but you have to consciously choose to acknowledge it. There is free will involved, regardless of some ancient and irrelevant belief that our entire lives are predestined.

There is only the present happening. No one is doing it.

.....Yeeeah but you still have to do work and make conscious efforts, you can't just sit back and say "the present is happening whether I do anything about it or not." Magick doesn't occur unless you will it to. You have to initiate the change in conformity with your will. You don't sit on your ass and expect to get a good girlfriend do you?