Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

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posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 



There are many other Bible verses which are suggestive of reincarnation. One episode in particular from the healing miracles of Christ seems to point to reincarnation: "And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)

The disciples ask the Lord if the man himself could have committed the sin that led to his blindness. Given the fact that the man has been blind from birth, we are confronted with a provocative question. When could he have made such transgressions as to make him blind at birth? The only conceivable answer is in some prenatal state. The question as posed by the disciples explicitly presupposes prenatal existence. It will also be noted that Christ says nothing to dispel or correct the presupposition.


reluctant-messenger.com...


That has nothing to do with reincarnation. Jesus is talking about sin, and the consequences of sin (disobedience to God). What Jesus is saying is that the sins are there so that God's work can be made manifest - meaning that they can be forgiven by His sacrifice for us. That the disciples considered reincarnation doesn't mean that Jesus did, if indeed that is what they meant.




posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


The purpose of the raising of Lazarus was to show that the sould exists separate from the body, and Jesus demonstrated the power of the soul over matter. He demonstrated the reinfusing of the corporeal body with the soul, and also the concept of the resurrection itself, which is not just reserved for him, but for all who can achieve mastery. At the end of his life, he demonstrated this power in his own body and appeared to his disciples in his resurrected form.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


Jesus' answer demonstrates that it wasn't karma from a past life which caused the man to be born blind, nor was it the karma of the parents, but that it was another purpose for which God had . The dialogue suggests that all understood the concepts of karma and reincarnation.
Sin is karma.
I know it's hard to accept these things when the Church has taken so much pain to conceal the esoteric teachings. My guess is that you also do not accept that Jesus could have traveled to the East and learned from the monks and adepts there.
I understand you are not ready to accept that, but you accept Jesus into your heart. Everyone is where they are on the Path to enlightenment.
tt is an individual path, regardless of POTUS' claim of it to be a collective salvation.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


As many of you know, I am writing a book on this subject. It's at the stage now where proofs are coming in and it will be edited by other eyes. I hope to have it on Amazon by the end of July. For now, I can give you an overview of what I include in parts of the book. The foundation of the book rests on the seven words from Greek and Latin that are the branch of the tree language provides for us to see the gospel message from the mirror of Word. This first look gives you a clue from a secondary source outside the pages of the Bible:

Amn - Lamb
Amni - River of Life
Amnio - Bowl that catches the blood of the sacrificed lamb
Amnion - Sac covering the womb
Amniotic - Fluid - Waters of the womb
Amnesia - Forgetfulness and condition of the waters
Amnesty - Forgiveness in the waters

What I have sown you is a branch from the root morphology of two languages, both having roots in the Hebrew language. From this, a story can be seen, but it must be related to a Shepherd.

The Shepherd sheers the wool from the neck of the lamb and pulls it over the eyes (Amnesia). The wool is shorn from the sheep each season (you must be born again). The wool is then washed white as snow and returned as a new Robe (Body). All of this is 100% backed by scripture. The next part of the story is to identify the Shepherd.

First, the Luke 3 Genealogy starts with Adam, but engages by the Shepherd (Son of God).

38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Notice that the Son of God creates Adam. The secret behind this mystery is held in the fact that the root of our problem with sin resides in Adam and is resolved with Adam. Adam is our Kinsman Redeemer, but he is also the first soul created. If we are speaking of our Soul, we are speaking of the portion allotted to us of the ONE soul of Adam, given by the Son of God. That Son is being raised in the wilderness by God and we are being raised in the wilderness by Christ (Shepherd of men). Once you have the hierarchy straight, the rest makes much more sense.

Notice that Cain is not listed and Abel is missing as well? Why? Apart from knowing this, you will be blinded to why we transmigrate with Moses across the wilderness of time. Cain is the seed of Satan (1 John 3).

11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

As always, scripture hides this mystery from us. Staying in death is remaining in the material world of sin and death. Life is waking your soul from loving others. Our inheritance is the portion of soul we gain by growing beyond being a Child of God. In Hebrew culture, you remain a child until the age at which you become a man and gain your inheritance. The prodigal son is a good version of this story.

Now you just need to know the Mystery of Moses: Mystery of Moses

Once you see this clearly, I can show you the secret in two other places. 1 Kings 17 is the picture of Elijah shutting off the waters of life and having control of the Dew (Human Incarnation) and the Rain (Generations of Life). He then demonstrates Involution and Evolution with the widow woman's son. We then move on to Elijah as the risen John the Baptist and notice that He is Elijah by the words of Christ. John himself tells the disciples that he is not Elijah. Jesus says he is. What is he doing? Baptizing souls into the water as Jesus says, "you must be born again." I think the message is clear, but veiled.

Next, Job 2 tells us a veiled secret.

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!”

Satan had just killed Job's children. God lamented this, then Satan used a phrase with double meaning. Since Satan is a serpent, what do serpents do each season? Shed skin. Is it the same snake under that skin? YES! Satan was veiling the fact that Job's children would be back and he was reminding God that this fact kept the killing of Job's children from being the issue of loss. It was only temporary.

My book has 200+ pages of the same information in detail. There is a total story here that shows the mystery as evident. What we must know is this: Salvation from death is union with God's Spirit from love and faith, but salvation comes after the the Last Adam appears a second time to end sin and death for good. The fig tree was not ripe with fruit the last time. Today, the First Resurrection represents Elijah preparing the way with 7 billion souls on Earth at one time. We are here to see the Day of the Lord engaged for the final push to assist mankind to salvation. Salvation from death is our rest on that day.



edit on 28-6-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by windword
Is a shiny, brand new, innocent soul created every time a woman's egg is fertilized? If so, doesn't that make the soul a biological manifestation? How then can one justify the belief that the soul doesn't die, but the body does?


- Is the soul in the egg brand new each time? Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe sometimes.

- If it's a new soul each time, why would you think that it's a biological manifestation? It easily could be a combination biological and spiritual. The soul can be created elsewhere and it finds a temporary 'home' in the physical. That's just as possible. (and more likely, IMHO)

- The body depends on a soul to function but the soul doesn't need the body. The body is a temporary dwelling place of the soul. Kind of like a home needs a person to keep it functioning and in good repair, but the person can change homes anytime it wants ... or even live in the outdoors ... (not a great example, but it's as close as I can come to what I'm trying to say at the moment)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Sin is karma.


Yep. From reading Catholic, Buddhist, and Hindu teaching that's what I've come to as well. Sin and sin debt ... Karma and Karma debt .. and collective Karma debt. It's the only way to fully explain suffering. Jesus suffered for the sins of others. He paid the debt. Innocent children are suffering for the sins of others. Both Catholics and Buddhists believe that there are 'suffering souls' who

- (according to Buddhists) pay for the bad Karma of others so they can move along and reach liberation from the cycle of incarnations.

- (according to Catholics) earn sanctifying grace from Heaven so that the sinner can break the chains of their sins and increase their faith and hopefully go to heaven.

Unfortunately, it's all kind of 'collective Karma' and we all have to 'help' others with their karma debt (sin debt). It's all rather left wing socialist which irks me
but there it is. Jesus did it. We are supposed to do it.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


Jesus' answer demonstrates that it wasn't karma from a past life which caused the man to be born blind, nor was it the karma of the parents, but that it was another purpose for which God had . The dialogue suggests that all understood the concepts of karma and reincarnation.
Sin is karma.
I know it's hard to accept these things when the Church has taken so much pain to conceal the esoteric teachings. My guess is that you also do not accept that Jesus could have traveled to the East and learned from the monks and adepts there.
I understand you are not ready to accept that, but you accept Jesus into your heart. Everyone is where they are on the Path to enlightenment.
tt is an individual path, regardless of POTUS' claim of it to be a collective salvation.


Jesus didn't say anything about karma. He responded to a question about sin. Plus, Jesus didn't need to learn from anyone. God already knows everything.

The road is indeed one each must take alone. ONE road.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 07:02 AM
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Back when Christianity was first formed from the teachings of Jesus there were many different interpretations of it going on in different parts of that country.
When Emperor Constantine came into power he decided he only wanted ONE teaching being taught so everyone would have the same belief, and it would stop any type of religious uprising/war. So he did away with some of the teachings and books written by the disciples. He and the Church councils got together and decided which books to put in the Bible that would be used then, and for future generations to come, and which books to leave out.
Because of this, there are books that contain Jesus' teachings that never made it into The Hebrew Bible we use today, but none the less, they are still teachings from Jesus.
Another reason they withheld the topic of reincarnation from being included in the Bible was because they thought that if people realized they had more than one life to "get it right" they wouldn't try to live the best they could in their current life.

Jesus also shared some knowledge with his disciples that he told them not to reveal to the public. And he said there was more that would be revealed later. Could this have been concerning reincarnation?

Since the 1970's there have been many psychiatrists doing regressive hypnosis on people trying to find a childhood explanation for some of their client's problems. Unexpectedly, some of the clients went back even further to a previous life time, and described it in full detail giving their names in that life, dates, and where they lived. Their details checked out to be true.
There have been thousands and thousands of these studies done by different psychiatrists since the first time it was revealed, and they have all had the same results.

Some scientists argue it is "cell memory" that was passed to us by our ancestors that gives us memories of past lives. NOT!!!
In one case study I read about this person who remembered a past life as a woman that didn't have any children, and she remembered more lives prior to, and, after that one. If it was cell memory, she wouldn't have been able to remember the life of the woman with no children because there was nobody to pass the cell memory to concerning that lifetime.

Have you ever just met someone, and automatically felt so comfortable with them; like you've known them all your life? Or, maybe you knew that you didn't like this person before they even opened their mouth?
These are people we've known in past lives, and when we meet them in this life we get these "feelings" about them based on how we got along with them in a past life.
Or, have you ever felt you've visited (or lived in) a certain place before, but know that you haven't? Those are past-life memories coming through your subconscious.

Here are two excellent books for the serious seeker that answer your questions regarding reincarnation.
I highly recommend them:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372419265&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Reincarnat ion%3A+The+Missing+Link+in+Christantiy

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372419265&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=Reincarnation%3A +The+Missing+Link+in+Christantiy


edit on 6/28/2013 by sled735 because: clarify statements



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 08:04 AM
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Wait a minute, we get the "body we deserve?" So, people born with downs deserve to have downs? Yeah, um, I don't think so. Be very careful with this line of thinking.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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I find it amazing how people who don't even believe the Bible have all the correct answers of what the Bible is trying to say
. Give me a break. It is impossible for non-believers to comprehend what the scriptures are saying without the power of the Holy Spirit. I know some who like to think they understand what was written but they just don't.

That is why: we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I'm not saying non believers can't learn a few things by reading the Bible, some things are plain as day. But when it comes to topics like "born again" "was Jesus God" and few other deeper topics. Non believers will just never get the real meaning without the power of the Holy Spirit.

So will the non believers who have been posting on this topic stop putting it out there as fact that Jesus was teaching reincarnation
edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


I love how you put Paul's words in dark...


Right where they belong...




posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


I love how you put Paul's words in dark...


Right where they belong...



You love making childish replies don't you?



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


I don't see anything childish about that remark... but yes... sometimes...

Be as a child right?




posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


I don't see anything childish about that remark... but yes... sometimes...

Be as a child right?



I know you don't. There are a lot of things you can't see and probably never will. But hey, let the blind lead the blind.
edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 




So Jesus is blind?

I thought you were quoting Paul?



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 




So Jesus is blind?

I thought you were quoting Paul?


How on earth did you draw the conclusion that I was saying Jesus is blind
? Come on now, it's clear your just typing responses just to be typing. That's sad.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


Well you see... I don't quote Paul. I consider him a fraud...

but that is a different story which is hardly appropriate to this topic...

And since you said this...


But when it comes to topics like "born again" "was Jesus God" and few other deeper topics. Non believers will just never get the real meaning without the power of the Holy Spirit.


I figured i'd be silly too..




posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


Without the ever present fear of hell, and as you put it, a second eternal "Lake of Fire" an even worse hell......

You would actually put forth a hell of a lot more effort into finding out what is going on, instead of trying to convince yourself you are a flawed creation, and through no fault of your own, must find salvation by making an agreement with yourself to believe that Love is commanding you to accept all of this as the total story of your existence.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


Well you see... I don't quote Paul. I consider him a fraud...

but that is a different story which is hardly appropriate to this topic...

And since you said this...


But when it comes to topics like "born again" "was Jesus God" and few other deeper topics. Non believers will just never get the real meaning without the power of the Holy Spirit.


I figured i'd be silly too..



Well if you don't believe Paul your free to do so. But Jesus taught the same thing.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 



Well if you don't believe Paul your free to do so. But Jesus taught the same thing.


No im afraid he didn't teach the same thing... not even close actually...

but again this is not the topic at hand...

I have a bunch of threads on Paul and this is not the place for that argument...

Destroy's threads ye know...

Btw is your cherry picking inferring that I don't have "the holy spirit"?

Ye know All are born of spirit and flesh... right?

IF so... does that make you better then me?



edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)





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