Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

reply to post by AQuestion

I completely disagree. Your body may limit your options but it does not determine your choices and we all have them.

I guess I misunderstood what you meant.

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

I got on this thread late and have not bothered reading through it, I just answered on my own. I now see that you have been a participant, should I bother going back and reading the whole thing or is it pretty much the standard from others? Hope you are well dear friend.

reply to post by Akragon


I think I'll switch to your thread now. Less chance of violating my moratorium.

Given that when plants and animals die, they're basically recycled and all the atoms therein are used to create something different, reincarnation exists, IMO of course. However, it's important to note that this is not the typical ideology that comes to mind when we contemplate the term "reincarnation". I leave it to you to decide, but I don't think reincarnation exists in a "conscious reincarnation"-type because even using all the same ingredients you won't necessarily end up with the same product.

(All theoretical but also
What if one is to be cryogenically frozen at time of death. The soul is then reincarnated....but years down the road science manages to revive the body...Does this singular soul then occupy two bodies?

Food for thought.
A2D

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

(All theoretical but also

What if one is to be cryogenically frozen at time of death. The soul is then reincarnated....but years down the road science manages to revive the body...Does this singular soul then occupy two bodies?

Food for thought.
A2D

(theoretical in response) perhaps attached to that body until body destroyed... or free of preserving agents technologies energies.

So soul non transmigrating unless strong from original port, unless guided/overseen after environment suit deteriorates or fails from tech failing or outdating preserving...

reply to post by pthena


Dear pthena,

No issues here. I don't think of my body as defining "me". There is an Australian, he made a video called, "No Arms, No Legs, No Problem". My ex-wife regrets having left me for another man; but, it was her choice. In my opinion she regrets her choices because she didn't end up with the world that she thought the other man would provide her. She regrets her choice because of how it effected her, not how it effected others. Same thing for anyone who is selfish. Reincarnation is about getting a second chance, not to have a better effect on others; but, to have a better outcome for oneself. Look at the OP, it is about them getting a second chance to be better so that they can advance. It is not about others.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Akragon

 

I think I'll switch to your thread now. Less chance of violating my moratorium.

Unfortunately my newest thread is not a happy one....

If that is what you're refering to

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Akragon

 

Dear Akragon,

I got on this thread late and have not bothered reading through it, I just answered on my own. I now see that you have been a participant, should I bother going back and reading the whole thing or is it pretty much the standard from others? Hope you are well dear friend.

Chances are if the topic involves reincarnation... Im always in there somewhere

These threads bring out the worst and the best in people...

And you know i love to poke the beast

reply to post by windword


I believe in re-incarnation, but I don't think we are born again into THIS world. I think there are infinite parallel universes, that when we die...we are simply reborn again in the next universe. Time will basically start over and you will live your life over and over forever. Not all your lives will be the same because you will make different choices each time.

That's what I think anyways...there's only 2 explanations to what happens after you die...

A) You die and that's it, its over.

B) Reincarnation

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

Chances are if the topic involves reincarnation... Im always in there somewhere These threads bring out the worst and the best in people... And you know i love to poke the beast

I always love it when you "poke" us because you make us all think a little harder and that is a great thing.

Also, how do we reconcile the idea of reincarnation with Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(According to this)Man became a living soul. We don't HAVE souls, we ARE souls. This means that when we die, there is absolutely nothing left of us...the soul has died....it is not immortal......it will not reincarnate. It will only be resurrected and given a new perfect body...(if applicable)(and which also implies that souls cannot exist without a habitable body, therefore throwing pre-existence out the window)

(Not precisely my thoughts on the matter, but interesting to ponder nonetheless....)

A2D

reply to post by Akragon


I believe only in the word and not what some third party says. That is why I have not attended church in any form for many years. Instead i opted to look for the truth on my own terms and not Gods. Old testament teachings taught that to get closer to God you had to do it in a temple but new testament says you no longer have to do it that way. I feel like todays christianity is not only a perversion of what Jesus intended and also gives true followers of Christ a bad rep.

And what views do you hold? Some aliens(nephilim) coming to save you or some fat man made of gold(idol worship). No let me guess your one that thinks man can become god through meditation and opening of Chakras therefore putting yourself above God.. Dont be foolish these are tricks that have been put into place by Satan.

If most people knew how to read and comprehend biblical scripture for what it really is there would not be this mass confusion in the world today. I'm not one of these hyporcrital so called born agains either. I have read many books and studied many different origins of religion.

I n my studies i abandoned the one true God and for a while was looking everywhere but the bible for answers. It took a life changing experience to realize that the truth was in my face all along... I just refused to accept it.

won't preach to those that refuse to hear the word therefore excluding yourself from the book of life.

I will just leave you with these words...

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was making the world believe he does not exist.

Farewell and God bless

reply to post by beastnwokillah


Along those same lines of thought... The greatest trick the church ever played was convincing the world the devil does exist... And he has power to influence your world.

I'll leave you to your assumptions

And again, if I can add to my Genesis 2:7 remark....

We see that man IS a soul....and when man dies the soul dies also....To reconcile this with many of the other passages that suggest pre-existence I turn to Solomon's description found in Ecclesiastes 12:7

and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

The spirit returns....The original Greek for spirit is pneumatos or simply pneuma which basically points back to "breath of life"....which takes us full circle to Genesis.

The spirit(breath of life) animates the soul which inhabits our bodies. There's that number again....3. When we die the soul and body die, but the spirit returns to God who gave it.
(it seems sound enough to me.....can anyone manage to poke holes in this?)

Therefore the passages that are used to demonstrate pre-existence of the soul, are actually demonstrating the pre-existence of the spirit....The soul has not yet been animated or formed by the spirit yet.

Body + Spirit = Soul....Souls cannot exist without both body and spirit. Bodies are useless vessels until filled. Spirit is the energy transfer from Creator to creation, the jumpstart....the big bang if you will.....

Good stuff...I keep surprising myself

A2D

reply to post by Jakes51


You have made a good point in that John was very vocal, so he was beheaded nevertheless. So I suppose we are down to just a couple theories.

But we could sort of let scripture talk for us
Matthew 17:10-13

10 And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12 but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did [a]to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.

www.biblegateway.com...

It's clear as a bell here that Jesus believed John to be Elijah come again. Since Elijah had ascended to heaven he would have had to reincarnate to become John the Beloved, but there may be some question about this as he would have been an Ascended Master by then, but the story of his birth in the bible assures us that he had to be birthed the same way Jesus was birthed.

The sole biblical account of the birth of John the Baptist comes from the Gospel of Luke. John’s parents, Zechariah or Zachary — a Jewish priest — and Elizabeth, were without children and both were beyond the age of child-bearing. During Zechariah's rotation to serve in the Temple in Jerusalem, he was chosen by lot to offer incense at the Golden Altar in the Holy Place. The Archangel Gabriel appeared to him and announced that he and his wife would give birth to a child, and that they should name him John. However, because Zechariah did not believe the message of Gabriel, he was rendered speechless until the time of John's birth;[2] at that time, his relatives wanted to name the child after his father, and Zechariah wrote, "His name is John" and could speak (Luke 1:5-25; 1:57-66).

en.wikipedia.org...

Interesting stuff eh?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


My question has stayed the same throughout the thread, and that is: where do souls come from? You are the one who keeps changing your answer.

Funny that you say that if you don't believe in reincarnation you believe in new souls, because you said that some souls aren't new. Does that mean you believe in reincarnation after all?

reply to post by AQuestion

Why is it that Hindu's don't accept the idea of eternal life with God the father.

They do. They just think we have to balance our karma first. None of this vicarious atonement for them. And Jesus also didn't teach vicarious atonement then if we really get down to brass tacks. For otherwise what would this statement mean?

Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

biblehub.com...

karma

Jesus did bring us forgiveness of sins but we still must fulfill the law. Still Jesus is a great Bodhisattva and did make the sacrifice for all mankind.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Dear ThirdEyeofHorus,

Jesus did bring us forgiveness of sins but we still must fulfill the law. Still Jesus is a great Bodhisattva and did make the sacrifice for all mankind.

That is just silly. Never have a bad thought, that is what would be required to fulfill all of the law. Please tell me you have never a bad thought, I will be impressed. Why would Jesus need to die for our sins if we could be perfect and could keep trying to be perfect forever through reincarnation. Your moniker alone kind of says where you are coming from. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


Works are different from thoughts. To think something and to act on that thought are two totally separate things.

Just because I think about stealing from someone doesn't mean I actually did it. I guess thinking about something and not doing it is the same thing as doing it to you?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Works are different from thoughts. To think something and to act on that thought are two totally separate things.

Just because I think about stealing from someone doesn't mean I actually did it. I guess thinking about something and not doing it is the same thing as doing it to you?

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

Actions come from thoughts. They are not totally different. Jesus said that to think a thing was a sinful as doing it, that is because imperfection is imperfection and we are imperfect.