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Transgender man in women's mma? Thoughts please.

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posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by SourGrapes
 


Well yeah, but that's true regardless of hormone usage.

Still, your point stands. It is a slippery slope and this should be disallowed.
There is a clear advantage here.

Not to sound mysoginistic or anything ladies, but this is true in nearly all athletic endeavours. Women aren't as good as men.




posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by SourGrapes
 


Well yeah, but that's true regardless of hormone usage.

Still, your point stands. It is a slippery slope and this should be disallowed.
There is a clear advantage here.

Not to sound mysoginistic or anything ladies, but this is true in nearly all athletic endeavours. Women aren't as good as men.


To this end, I do agree with you. However, I may be in the minority in my own thinking anyway. I still believe women shouldn't fight in wars, as they are not as physically adept at close combat fighting, nor mentally prepared to take lives (amongst many other reasons I believe to be logical). (All my opinion though, which I am still entitled to.)
edit on 27-6-2013 by SourGrapes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by SourGrapes
 


We discussed this quite a bit while I was in the service. Women shouldn't be allowed in combat for many reasons, but that is the subject for another thread.

In this case, I truly believe it is just a matter of time before this is outlawed in the ring. Someone is gonna seriously get hurt.



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by turboneon
 

What concerns me is that all of this is beaming out from the earth at the speed of light and it will be rather perplexing to those who eventually intercept our signals and thus a great embarrassment for the human race.


edit on 27-6-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by turboneon
 


Op, please fix your title to transgender woman.


On the topic? Idk. Hormone therapy kills muscle mass, for sure. how much is going to vary between each individual..

But ultimately you can't fight the effects of reducing testosterone to female levels and not feel a significant impact to physical strength.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Being male in itself doesn't bestow better fighting ability on a human. Looking at Fox's fight record, whether he's classed as male or female, it still took him/her 13 minutes+ to finish an unranked female.


That's all fine and dandy but can we finally lose that bullcrap feminist viewpoint that guys can't hit girls once and for all now? I've always thought it was BS for a girl to use that to their advantage, try to act like a man, and expect a guy to just take their abuse.

Also, it would be nice if men had equal rights when it comes to deciding for their children. If women insist on continuing to dominate the fate of both males and their offspring then I say smash every womans teeth in on the daily until men have equal rights.

I'm getting married next week. Wish me luck..
edit on 28-6-2013 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 01:12 AM
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ohhh sick!!!!! oh man. I thought a lot of those female mma stars looked like guys. Thats' likely why the UFC is only looking for hot female fighters not butch ones. (sorry girls, I'm just saying most f fighters could pass for guys) My guess is to draw in a male audiance, the same way that WWE basically introduced the Diva's. No one really cares how well they can fight. That's lame, they just want to see some hot girls going at it.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 01:22 AM
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It's weird. There are definitely physical advantages to being a man that not even hormones are going to change. As for if it should be allowed.. go ahead. I am sure the women fighters would like the chance to go up against this person. If the transgender fighter beat everyone though and set on top they would never feel fair and people would never fully recognize that she's the greatest female mma fighter.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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I'll fight her

2nd



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by DeadSnow
The world has officially gone MAD!, she's a he, a man, he belongs in mens MMA. Transgendered individuals should not be allowed to participate in sports, period!


Really?

You would prohibit people from playing in sports because of who they are?

Classy.

As for the the topic. There's enough science and medicine around to prove that she or he is capable of fighting at the same level, without advantage as whatever sex they feel identity with.

It's insane to even bring it up as social or moral issue. Just have the scientists give you the facts and make your decisions based on that.

~Tenth


Here is the problem. Science says (s)he does have an advantage.

There would be increased musculature, and an increased ability to build muscle, so an advantage might be present due to years of conditioning and becoming more masculine, which includes differences in endurance and strength. The male body develops differently, both in skeletal structure and muscularly.

When pitted against an average female, I would say that there were probably some advantages that the hormonal blockade and subsequent replacement can't take away 100%, simply because she lived so much of her life as a male, and developed fully as such.

There are PERMANENT changes that can never be undone in skeletal structure as well.

Women also have lighter, child bearing hips because of the difference in hormones during the body's developmental years. Her skeleton and body mass and shape developed a long time ago. Those changes cannot be undone. They are permanent.

www.bloodyelbow.com...

So Fallon may win based on advantages gained from being a man despite having lesser skill and technique.

The problem is how PC our society has become. Fallon should fight men.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 02:19 AM
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As soon as I reread the title I swallowed me barf.Then I read along and barfed some more....I'm sorry,let me help you
...what ever,Enjoy this tune,it;s cool

edit on 28-6-2013 by SarnholeOntarable because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to

post by goochball

 

Nothing against transgender folk, but this is not even remotely fair for the real women of MMA,

They should not be forced to fight someone with naturally greater muscle mass and bone density. If

it were some other less physical sport, maybe. But in MMA, she gains too much of an advantage

from her male attributes. If "she" really wants to fight, it should be against another man or male

transgender.


Originally posted by evc1shop
Is it because it makes for good ratings?
Maybe...

Originally posted by evc1shopDo they feel like they are making a difference in teaching

tolerance to kids who may have considered growing up as bullies to those struggling with

identity/gender issues?
Maybe...

reply to

post by Lysergic

 
Maybe they should start up and transgendered MMA
YES!!!

reply to

post by jrod

 


Originally posted by WaterBottle
I think it's unfair because he is naturally going to have a different muscle mass than a real woman.


Not true. Hormone replacement therapy will give her a similar muscle mass as an ordinary women.

However the skeletal structure will not change so that may be the unfair advantage.

Actually bone structure CAN change a bit... Some transgendered individuals taking Estrogen

Hormone therapies have noted changes in their facial structures... which... is bone...


reply to post by

solargeddon

 

I agree with Rhonda.
[this is the competitor yes?]

reply to

post by DeadSnow

 


Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Evilkoncepts and maxatoria seem to know what they are talking about. Size means relatively little if

someone knowes their s#*~$. The advantages this transgender has are minuscule to a professional

fighter. I'm 230. I get rocked all the time by a training buddy who's only 145. He's just very good.

As for the "no woman can beat up an mma fighter" that's ignorance. First of all stop thinking

mma fighters are good at anything other than playing in the mma. The real world and mma fights

don't exactly correlate like mma fan boys want to believe.

Fan boys? yet you don't even know who we are...some of us are/used to be fighters.
Apologies for sidetracking, just had to put that out there. It gets on my nerves when certain people

assume too much.
Fanboys..
::up Yep, MMA fighters sure do know how to party in the

ring, only...

reply to

post by evc1shop
reply to

post by

charles1952

 
...a gender issue. My wife is a law professor and she teaches "Race, Gender and the Law" at

least once a year and people always try to draw parallels in her classes to race when they should be

focusing on gender. There are similarities, I agree, but strictly in the context of the OP, I think the

gender identification and differences are key.
Of course, your opinion is different and respected.
Yes, but parallels are parallels and should be considered... If racial traits of advantages are

not taken into consideration why should sexual traits of advantage be taken into consideration. I am

aware that drug-induced traits of advantage (i.e. steroids) are. And well, taking hormone replacement

treatment drugs would cause drug-induced trait advantages over those participants that do not have

these drugs available to them.
As a female, born female, with natural hormone imbalance due to various syndromes and diseases, I

can attest from personal/first hand experience with hormone amount significance to bone density,

skeletal structure, muscle mass, and other things as well.
As an aside, HIGH levels of Testosterone in naturally born females cause an over development in

breast tissue. It doesn't make any sense but it is FACT. so....



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to

post by Astrocyte

 

biologically, physiologically, he is a MAN.
MMA is a physical sport. ...athletic competition (especially of this sort) favors males.
What matters here is fairness in the octagon. If other female fighter can't match a male fighters

athletic prowess, than he/she should be disqualified from competing in female competition.


Which brings us all back to ... Women's MMA, Men's MMA, and Trans MMA....
End of Thread



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 06:11 AM
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As I've already mentioned, one woman has already took Fallon Fox way into a 3rd round, so it won't be too long before a natural female gets his number. If his presence in mma encourages women to get better and fight harder, how can that be a negative for the sport?



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


It can quickly turn into a negative for the sport if someone gets killed. Or seriously injured.

As for people saying MMA fighters are no good outside the ring, please, just shut up. You are talking about people who often times are black belts in disciplines like Muay Thai Kickboxing. People who will dislocate your arms and legs with lock flow. I have never seen a more ignorant statement. Stop trying to sound like internet tough guys. Any professional MMA fighter would very likely make short work of anyone in this thread. Unless of course we have professional MMA fighters in here.




ETA: that myth is easily dispelled. Anyone remember when Kimbo Slice tried his hand in the UFC?
The "baddeststreet fighter in the world" was knocked out in under a minute. I laughed so damn hard at that.
edit on 28-6-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by IvanAstikov
As I've already mentioned, one woman has already took Fallon Fox way into a 3rd round, so it won't be too long before a natural female gets his number. If his presence in mma encourages women to get better and fight harder, how can that be a negative for the sport?


So lets let all men in. It will encourage women to get better! Brilliant. The fact that Fallon Fox is not well skilled and so isn't able to beat up on girls who have more skill doesn't mean we should just let people with advantages in. What if Fallon Fox did have amazing skills and beat every girl? Is it still fair?



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


It can quickly turn into a negative for the sport if someone gets killed. Or seriously injured.

As for people saying MMA fighters are no good outside the ring, please, just shut up. You are talking about people who often times are black belts in disciplines like Muay Thai Kickboxing. People who will dislocate your arms and legs with lock flow. I have never seen a more ignorant statement. Stop trying to sound like internet tough guys. Any professional MMA fighter would very likely make short work of anyone in this thread. Unless of course we have professional MMA fighters in here.




ETA: that myth is easily dispelled. Anyone remember when Kimbo Slice tried his hand in the UFC?
The "baddeststreet fighter in the world" was knocked out in under a minute. I laughed so damn hard at that.
edit on 28-6-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)



Real chumps on the street for sure.
edit on 29-6-2013 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2013 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
As I've already mentioned, one woman has already took Fallon Fox way into a 3rd round, so it won't be too long before a natural female gets his number. If his presence in mma encourages women to get better and fight harder, how can that be a negative for the sport?


So lets let all men in. It will encourage women to get better! Brilliant. The fact that Fallon Fox is not well skilled and so isn't able to beat up on girls who have more skill doesn't mean we should just let people with advantages in. What if Fallon Fox did have amazing skills and beat every girl? Is it still fair?


Are you worried him becoming the best female mma fighter is going to encourage a swathe of men to have transgender ops and begin identifying as a female, just to get an edge?
edit on 29-6-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
As I've already mentioned, one woman has already took Fallon Fox way into a 3rd round, so it won't be too long before a natural female gets his number. If his presence in mma encourages women to get better and fight harder, how can that be a negative for the sport?


So lets let all men in. It will encourage women to get better! Brilliant. The fact that Fallon Fox is not well skilled and so isn't able to beat up on girls who have more skill doesn't mean we should just let people with advantages in. What if Fallon Fox did have amazing skills and beat every girl? Is it still fair?


Are you worried him becoming the best female mma fighter is going to encourage a swathe of men to have transgender ops and begin identifying as a female, just to get an edge?
edit on 29-6-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)


Ummm... Would you go thru a year of counselling, another year of hormone treatment and THEN having surgury to have your genitals re-worked to be a vag--just to win a belt?

If yes, they you prolly were Trans* to start with. That is a lot of # for transwomen to go thru, someone faking it just to win a belt, ita a long tangent to the prize.

BUT like I said--I'll fight her. Im trans*, Im trained, Im 5'11 and 180lbs. Get me at this bitch I will knock her the # out of the octagon!
edit on 29-6-2013 by cartenz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by cartenz
 


When, where, and how are lines between gender in sports drawn?
Who gets to draw them... ?



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