If your Country instituted a Draft/Conscription would you go or dodge it?

reply to post by crazyewok


I can’t be drafted or recalled because I served 8 years. I have completely fulfilled my obligation and have been honorably discharged. Regardless, I can’t think of any reason I would support a draft. I think the draft cheapens the service of those who do so voluntarily. I believe a big reason for the success of the US military is the fact that it is an all volunteer force.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by crazyewok

 

I can’t be drafted or recalled because I served 8 years. I have completely fulfilled my obligation and have been honorably discharged. Regardless, I can’t think of any reason I would support a draft. I think the draft cheapens the service of those who do so voluntarily. I believe a big reason for the success of the US military is the fact that it is an all volunteer force.

The core of the debate though is it right to say NO if the war your drafted is not about defence of the country or any benifit to the people back home.


But I agree Conscription makes for bad armys. It why the UK was able to quickly win the Falklands war as our volenteer forces made short work of the conscripts its faced.

reply to post by Nucleardiver

My older kids are 16x2 and 15 and they have said that they are considering going in the service when they turn 18. I told them I would hog tie them and keep them in the bunker until they are 36 if I have to because no child of mine is going to be a bullet sponge for insane politicians and corporate interests. Same goes for a draft, they would draft my kids over my dead body.

Well said, friend!

As a veteran myself, I never thought I would feel this way about military service but I must agree with you. My grandfather served in WW2. I have several uncles who served from Korea to Grenada. My dad served several YEARS in Vietnam. Military service is a family tradition in my family…but I believe this cycle must be broken; that is if I have any say in the matter. I certainly don’t want my son to serve…sad but true.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Ill keep the home fires burning in whatever today's version of Dads Army would be. . I'd be more of a hindrance on the battlefield.

"Better to be a live coward than a dead hero", as my grandpa used to say - he worked as a technician in the airfields

Given that the British army now has more horses than tanks due to cutbacks and just enough troops to fill Wembley stadium, I can't imagine them getting involved in any more wars.

reply to post by crazyewok

The core of the debate though is it right to say NO if the war your drafted is not about defence of the country or any benifit to the people back home.

I don’t think it’s right to institute a draft regardless what reason is used to promote it. I believe in an all volunteer force. Therefore, I don’t think anyone should be forced to go to war.

In US military, we already have a provision known as ‘conscientious objector’.

A member who can convince the military that they are conscientious objectors may request a discharge. This is not as easy as it sounds. First, the member would have to show that his/her beliefs changed significantly after they joined the military, because one must certify that they are not conscientious objectors at the time of voluntary enlistment.

usmilitary.about.com...

I think this rule could easily be applied to a draft scenario. If you REALLY disagree with service and haven’t made any commitment then you should be allowed to refrain from entering. If it doesn't apply then it SHOULD!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
People want to whine, complain and bitch about the nation that gives them the place, food and shelter to bitch from (or the opportunity needed to have all that in abundance) then run for the hills if/when the call ever comes to fulfill the obligations of a citizen? Oh hell no.

In my personal thinking, running isn't just illegal it's the utter coward's path and I'll help hunt down the draft dodgers myself if opportunity arose for it.

Same here, I'm out of the age range for the human targets they're looking for. If I was in the age range, my answer would depend on what the draft was for. If we were being invaded, they'd have to deliver the draft notice to me on the front-line because I'd already be fighting. If it was to invade another country, you'd have a heck of a time hunting me down.

But I'm a little confused about where you live. The country I live in doesn't provide me with food, or shelter. In fact, they take from me at every opportunity they can. I pay 25% in taxes and have never received a penny of government assistance. Read that again - NOT ONE PENNY EVER. At least once a year I get a visit from the government to determine if I'm selling any of the 5-12 chicken eggs my hens lay daily - so they can get more taxes from me (they didn't give me the chickens, or help me feed them). How much more do I owe them?

According to your logic, I owe them my life in exchange for all they've given me....except, I'm paying into the system instead of receiving anything from it.

I even had to pay for my son to attend a private pre-K because my income was too high for him to attend public school. It's fairly standard in this country to be forced to pay for something you're not allowed to use. I have a feeling that socialized medicine will be the same.

Unfortunately, we have a situation in this country where 2 wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner. Those who are receiving government assistance vote for more assistance because the alternative is that they would have to work. The politicians offer more assistance because they know that the ranks of the lazy will only increase. What do I get? I get to pay for it - even though I voted against it.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wrabbit,

I always enjoy your posts, and this thread has been interesting for all of your input, as well as others. Let me put a spin on it. I am taking for granted that you support the draft if needed, and take from some of your argument that you believe that it would be implemented nowadays only in the case that we had no choice.

In my opinion, in this day in age, with all of the technology and war tools that are available, drones, chemical weapons, Nuclear weapons, etc. I don't really think that there will ever be a "fair" war again. The days of lining up the troops and going at each other with muskets are over. There will never be another war that is won/lost based only on the training, support of it's troops or the skills of the leaders. The wars that are fought now will be won or lost solely due to the size of the guns involved in one side of the other.

Now, thinking of it from that perspective, there will probably never be a need for the draft again, but... Also coming from that perspective, I can see the reasoning behind refusing to go to war. War is not what it used to be any more.

I do love my country, and It is not for me to say whether those who start wars are doing it for the right reasons or not. War is not met eye to eye from each opposing side any more, those who lose do so because there was no way they could win when they were made to engage. If I was young enough to be drafted, and was asked to go today, I would not want to go. I would fight from inside as a soldier, or outside as a citizen against the whole idea, but the fact remains. What we think of as war does not happen any more. Now it is just the destruction and annihilation of countries and people that aren't conforming to the terms and conditions of our current system. War is fought against countries that are in no way prepared to defend themselves. It is not in my best interest to be a part of this type of domination.

I have a sneaking suspicion that way down inside if you were of age now and were asked, you would also see things this way, and although you might jump in with both feet whole heartedly, you might have issues with the process as well...





To those who are saying that they would run, or refuse. I say, if that is the way that you feel, then you need to do something about that right now, because it is all of ours responsibility to keep each other and our neighbors in check. If you believe that your government is unfair or complacent then it is your responsibility to help change it in some way for the better. Don't wait for the consequences. Be accountable for the actions of your leaders, whomever they be, bosses, banks, teachers, etc., because you will pay the price in some way or other if you leave them to go unchecked for too long.


War is childish and unnecessary for the most part, any adult with common sense should see that there are better, more productive and less destructive ways to solve problems.

It really depends for me, if my country (Australia) was to get involved in a foreign conflict such as the ones suggested, then no i would dodge it. However, if Australia faced direct invasion from an iminent, unprovoked threat then i would not need to be conscripted as i would volunteer. But no, i would only fight a foreign war if it were New Zealand, Britain, Canada or the US being invaded.

Originally posted by repulsive1
New Zealand, Britain, Canada or the US being invaded.

You know what you bring up a excellant point.

I think yes I would also be happy to help defend those country too (Im from the UK so replace the UK with Australlia) as we are so connected I think if any one of us fell the rest would too.

reply to post by seabag


And lets not forget my wet metal friend ,they are pushing for FEMALES in combat arms so they will want your DAUGHTERS too.
If they are so EPICLY stupid as to lower the standards then I suggest WE are being set up for a fall,say in Syria.

reply to post by crazyewok


First thing I want to say is that I believe citizens are not given more room to withdraw from conscription aka the draft if they have moral objections. The rules are very narrow minded and hypocritical for the times.

Now for my own stance on this and I do mean MY OWN stance. I do not feel this way towards others. Just for my own personal being.

As an American I have a personal responsibility to report for duty if called upon by my Nation. It's not a choice for me personally. Whether I agree with the politics or agenda is of no consequence to me if called upon. It is my responsibility to fight, defend and preserve the very liberties, rights and freedoms so many before me sacrificed for.

I know it's not a popular point of view and trust me when I say I am not blind to what is happening in my own Nation and government but it's still how I feel. It's an obligation and responsibility for me personally as an US citizen to answer the call of my Commander-in-Chief in times of emergency regardless of politics and views on foreign policy. I will meet the call because many of my fellow US citizens will be in harms way and that in itself is enough for me. I would never under any circumstances particpate or carry out any unlawful orders or acts against humanity though and would be more than brave enough to protest as such if ever the event came before me as all US Armed Forces members are required to even though most do not.

As far as I am aware as a Briton, I am still on the draft list if the country needed me, I would go regardless if it was the right thing to do, I would not run away into the hillside but rather go and when I returned (If I did) call for change in this country that other hopefully other draftees would support

War is hell

Originally posted by Flint2011
[i. It is my responsibility to fight, defend and preserve the very liberties, rights and freedoms so many before me sacrificed for.

.

But cases such as Iraq (thankfully no draft there) , vietnam and potentialy syria had/has absolutely nothing to do with preserveing the "liberties, rights and freedoms " of your fellow citizens does it?

Its just blindly following following your leaders. Leaders who Im pretty sure will not be shareing your sacrifice be it them or there own children.

reply to post by crazyewok


There is nothing blind about it. I have and never will blindly follow anyone. I will answer the call of my Nation as I see fit as for me it is an obligation and responsibility. That does not negate my responsibility to be a lawful and abiding citizen of my Nation or of the world as a whole though or as a US Armed Forces member. I made that clear in my initial response post. It's all very straight forward and honest.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by crazyewok

 

There is nothing blind about it. I have and never will blindly follow anyone. I will answer the call of my Nation as I see fit as for me it is an obligation and responsibility. That does not negate my responsibility to be a lawful and abiding citizen of my Nation or of the world as a whole though or as a US Armed Forces member. I made that clear in my initial response post. It's all very straight forward and honest.

edit on 6-27-2013 by Flint2011 because: Bloody L button sticks.

Re read my post my point being you call fighting in vietnam, iraq or potential syriaas fighting for the freedom liberty and protection of fellow americans can you? And if so why? Why is it ones duty to fight and possibly die if ones own country is not at risk? That not serving yourcountry thats serving a fool at a desk..,

Plus why should you go to the front lines when the children of the ones who sent you there would be kept home safe (see champiagn regiments).

I'd take a stand on our border long before allowing the Government to ship me or one of my kids off to fight another rich man's war, let the bankers send their kids.

I would not go anywhere. If law enforcement shows up to try to imprison me I would defend myself to my last breathe.

With my current views on the government? No. Prism makes it an illegitimate government. The only war I would agree to fight in that case is a defensive war that's about protecting the citizens of the nation rather than killing the citizens of another.

If it were the ideal government we were all taught we had in school, then yes.

reply to post by crazyewok


This thread is not about those wars or whether they are justified. War in itself is not justified yet it can be debated as well. It comes down to the person. You posted a what if scenario and I responded as such. Now you are just trying to bait and trap and it won't work. Read my post. I have indeed read yours. You forbid to accept mine but you debate me because it doesn't fit your views. I put forth my stance on the matter. It's straight forward. Nothing to debate about so if you continue to feel the need to allude that I am a blind follower then so be it.

Have a great day and best wishes in your endeavors just the same.

reply to post by crazyewok


I would also deny going. :/
I don't think that what is going on in any country should be the business of any other country. If they're not telling me how to live my life, I won't tell them how to live theirs either.
It's the people of the country who must be brave and make a change for themselves, this is how it happened here when they decided to put a stop to the communist party/government/leadership/whatever....