If your Country instituted a Draft/Conscription would you go or dodge it?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

You're scaring the kids man,
Accurate but they haven't got the depth of the concept down,how could they. They have never challenged them selves above their environment to the level of combatants and as such ,I suppose ,it is left to vets like us to tell them the truth regardless of how pitifully they define it.

The world will decide what it will do not us. We only have to adapt to what happens with what we know.
We know war.
Avoid it ,if you can't do it,be good at math.

Im still intrested to hear why one should fight in a pointless war like Vietnam just because some fool in Goverment says you must?

It does not effect national Security. And the ones who made that decsion would not be risking there lifes or the lifes of the there children (Read up on champaign units) so why should the common man be expected to go to war?


YES fight if your country is under threat! I could understant if North Korea kicked off.

But why should you fight if the war has nothing to do with the people or protection of the country?

Look at vietnam it was not to to with protecting Americans. It was about propping up a allied but corrupt and rotten goverment the otherside of the world. So why should any Americans have been sent there? They were not fighting for the country in any name of form (if you disagree please tell me why?) they were fighting for a peice of paper some diplomat made with a very corrupt regime.

The notion I would need to protect a boxed in piece of land on a map is ludicrous!

So no I wouldn't go to war - even if I did believe in any form of violence.

And no I wouldn't submit myself to jail to do the 'honorable' thing, because you see, our society is a cruel joke in an otherwise beautiful, and naturally free planet.

feel me?

Absolutely would refuse to allow them to ever go near even one of my children and would serve them with citizens arrest. and declare them illegal rogue forces. I don't care if they can overpower us, they can never overpower our minds. I don't follow bad orders from my servants and that is what all elected officials are, and appointed ones such as judges.

I have a serious problem with a draft.

I want my fellow soldiers to WANT to be there next to me.

Forcing people to fight does not make an effective military in the long run.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Absolutely would refuse to allow them to ever go near even one of my children and would serve them with citizens arrest. and declare them illegal rogue forces. I don't care if they can overpower us, they can never overpower our minds. I don't follow bad orders from my servants and that is what all elected officials are, and appointed ones such as judges.

The fact is they could never over power us, there's 300 million citizens in the US and approx 250 thousand troops including reserves, even if only 1/4 of the citizenry were willing to stand up and fight they would be severely outnumbered and out gunned.

United we stand, divided we fall and one of the first strategic rules of warfare whether it be political, class, or combat is to divide and seperate thereby disrupting communication. The tyrants in DC are well aware of this fact and that is why they constantly keep the citizenry divided along racial, religious, class, social, and political lines. As long as we are divided we are to busy with petty infighting to become viably resistant.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well, I'm more than a few years beyond this question being relevant. It's good to know so many members are young enough for the Selective Service and Draft Boards to be a factor in thinking.

In my personal thinking, running isn't just illegal it's the utter coward's path and I'll help hunt down the draft dodgers myself if opportunity arose for it.

People want to whine, complain and bitch about the nation that gives them the place, food and shelter to bitch from (or the opportunity needed to have all that in abundance) then run for the hills if/when the call ever comes to fulfill the obligations of a citizen? Oh hell no.

If the policy sucks, change it. If the people starting war suck, stop the whining and drop the Doritos to go help change THAT. Waiting until FINALLY bad policy touches each person directly....then running like a rat in the night? Well... I can't respect that one bit. If one can't get their butts to change the system in peace, they can eat the cost in war.......with a rifle or with a mop on a cell block. Either way works for me.

edit on 26-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: ATS's Interal editor can't seem to handle Ding Dongs as a snack food name

People dont agree with each other. Being the democracy that we are, a voter who lost would have to go fight in a war advocated by politicians that he/she did not vote for whose ideals he/she does not agree with. How is that fair? You act like the average person can go out and institute.the regime of their choice so there should be no reason to not fight. No. This regime is not my choice, and its not going to change just because I want it.to or.just because I vote. So no, im not going to fight for this crap I dont agree with.

If its a matter of.self defense, ill fight. If its a matter of protecting my friends.and family, ill fight. But, if its to help politicians further a political or.corporate agenda that I dont agree with, they can kiss my ass.

reply to post by crazyewok


We shouldn't have fought in Viet Nam Macnamara is responesable for it aka A SECRET which is how we got into every mess there is money and secrecy perpetuate it.
They are MORE than happy to open Cam Rahn Bay for us to counter the Chinese.

A soldier's job hasn't changed we go where the leader says that is known to EVERY literate human being on the planet.
The military doesn't do ANYTHING without your permission.You elected people who represent you who send us.
Our job is to win and get home in one piece. We have done this with great success until a we are ordered to stop, then we go back to practicing to fight.
If you don't like it don't elect them.
If you want all American forces to lay down our arms in a war because we think it is wrong the you still have some maturing to do.
There are a lot of "Might makes Right" pukes who want your stuff and you dead.

I knew I was going to be drafted, so, I went ahead and joined.
Did one tour in Vietnam and came home, treated like #, got bored stateside, nothing but guard duty so I volunteered to do another tour.
Would I dodge the draft now, No, I don't believe I would.
That's just me.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


"In my personal thinking, running isn't just illegal it's the utter coward's path and I'll help hunt down the draft dodgers myself if opportunity arose for it.

People want to whine, complain and bitch about the nation that gives them the place, food and shelter to bitch from (or the opportunity needed to have all that in abundance) then run for the hills if/when the call ever comes to fulfill the obligations of a citizen? Oh hell no."

Hey Wrabbit, it's not always as simple as you put it, I served my two years compulsory military service in the South African army, over thirty seven years ago, I was seventeen when I got "the call-up" and HAD to serve in the miltary fighting in the apartheid war, a war I never believed in.
If there had been somewhere to run and I had known that my family would not have to live with consequences caused by my decision I would have left the country! Yes, I would dodge if I was put into that position now!
I am pretty sure that many overseas/foreign people on ATS were against the apartheid policies of the then white South African government but that now they would judge me for being a conscription dodger (if I had dodged) for not doing my duty to my country, how does that work?

reply to post by smithjustinb


The thing I can't help but see in your reply and others I've seen on this topic both here and elsewhere is really disturbing and here, I'm going to make a wild guess and say I'm older than you are and by a good margin. That's absolutely not about age bringing wisdom so no need to get sensitive about that. It's entirely about having lived through the tail end of a period where the street right outside the window there was a place we, as Americans, could see the possibility of foreign troops and sure as heck not for any parade or disaster relief.

Fortunately, I didn't spend a good part of my life under that very real threat, as generations before me did. However, I sure lived enough of it when Russia was absolutely an energetic adversary ..always on the brink of enemy and able to throw punch for punch with the U.S. to recall the reality. It's what we're moving into again as we're weakening by choice it seems, and Russia is strengthening by leaps and bounds.

Now maybe I'm all wrong and you're actually 50 or 60 and we just lived exceptionally different years and national perceptions in the 1980's... It's possible. That's where my caution comes from though and never assuming every war will be one we either started or can choose to fight or not fight. It very well may come again where the threat of having one started and perhaps even losing it, may again be a real one. I hope not...but it's going that direction.

Anything short of a national fight for national survival will see almost every one of those 500+ Congressmen either facing recall elections short term or lose of the next election. So I don't expect to see it happen, short of that. That's a given.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Like I said, im all for fighting a fight I didnt start. But, if im part of an organization that started a fight and they want me to fight in it, im going to consider their agenda. If I agree with it and believe it to be noble, ill support them, if not, then no.

reply to post by crazyewok


I'd go, only because I'm a #ing psychopath with a variety of mental illness and would love to kill another human being no matter the excuse.... wait, I already did this stint......... Thus the mental illness...

All jokes aside, yeah I'd go again so perhaps maybe another wouldn't have to.

reply to post by crazyewok


I want to clarify something before I answer the question posed. I have no ill will, no lack of respect for, nor a bad word to say about anyone who has put on a uniform, slapped on some crappy armour, grabbed a weapon and got stuck in to things, in the name of Queen and country. I support the troops best I can, with donations to relevant charities when the moment presents itself, and of course, I pay my taxes.

However... I respect the choice made by them to do this, but I do not agree with it. Most of the people who join the armed forces, do so at a fairly young age, and cannot possibly have truely considered the depth of the choice they are making. There is NO way that a person between sixteen and eighteen years of age, has one iota of an idea about the rights and wrongs of handing over ones free will and self determination to an organisation which sees them as a number, rather than as a person, as an asset rather than a human being. Furthermore, with only a rare few exceptions, theres not one of them at that age who could look at the big picture, and decide wether or not they agree with the foreign policy of thier political masters.

Now, again for clarifications sake, I must explain that I have no problem with fighting, I am not a pacifist, I know that sometimes being prepared to stand up and deliver a thrashing is necessary for the survival of the country, and indeed the entire world. But those times are significantly rarer than Whitehall would have us believe, and there has not been such a time for decades and decades. My personal belief is that the recent campaigns against terror organisations and in Iraq were done under false pretences. Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks which lead to the War on Terror, and there were no WMD nor solid evidence of thier presence at any time during or after the war there. Also, one does not hunt a terror network with an army. One hunts a terror network with intelligence assets and nameless assassins, out of the public eye, and uses military assets to protect ones borders during that operation.

Frankly, the whole situation as it stands has been mishandled.

Now, assuming a threat which I would consider worthy of my attention in that regard, were to raise its head, say a repeat of the Nazi issue, then I would gladly take up arms, and I would win in a foot race to the front, because if there was ever an arse that deserved a kicking, it would be that of xenophobic bastards waving swastikas and trying to exterminate entire gene lines from the Earth. Dirty eugenicist scumbags get no quater.

But my nations government have involved themselves in wars for the wrong reasons, and I would not kill on thier say so, because thier judgement has been proven many times worse than my own. Until I see that there are leaders at EVERY level, whose understanding and love of freedom, fairness, equality and respect are equal or greater than my own, I will never see fit to hand my free will to them. For a government which IS based in those things, and not corrupt, I would have joined up when I was but a child, because I would have been able to trust them. I didnt, because I dont, and that has not changed.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well, I'm more than a few years beyond this question being relevant. It's good to know so many members are young enough for the Selective Service and Draft Boards to be a factor in thinking.

In my personal thinking, running isn't just illegal it's the utter coward's path and I'll help hunt down the draft dodgers myself if opportunity arose for it.

People want to whine, complain and bitch about the nation that gives them the place, food and shelter to bitch from (or the opportunity needed to have all that in abundance) then run for the hills if/when the call ever comes to fulfill the obligations of a citizen? Oh hell no.

If the policy sucks, change it. If the people starting war suck, stop the whining and drop the Doritos to go help change THAT. Waiting until FINALLY bad policy touches each person directly....then running like a rat in the night? Well... I can't respect that one bit. If one can't get their butts to change the system in peace, they can eat the cost in war.......with a rifle or with a mop on a cell block. Either way works for me.

edit on 26-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: ATS's Interal editor can't seem to handle Ding Dongs as a snack food name

Took the words right out of my mouth. I am young enough to be drafted, but already having a medical discharge, I doubt it would happen. Regardless, I feel the same way.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

If we were being invaded I'd go but I would want all the politicians and government leaders up on the front lines and in the trenches first. and that goes for both sides. Then I would join in as back up or re-enforcement.

I already served. The only way I would not dodge a draft is if I can get in writing from the Generals, Admirals, and up to the President himself that they will be on the front line with a rifle with the rest of us.

If they can do that, then I'd gladly go with them, until then, they've already had enough of my time.

Unless, of course, there was an actual invading army on the ground within the country, then I'd volunteer.

I volontaraly joined in 1989...If my country had a draught....I'd be there, no questions asked. That's how you serve your country !

Originally posted by Nuke2013
That's how you serve your country !

Even if the Goverment is corrupt and the wars it sends you too have nothing what so ever to do with national security?

I would way rather stay home and be tried for treason, than to go over seas and commit war crimes for greasy politicians who would send their fellow countrymen into the battle field only so they can get a bigger paycheck.
Id rather die for something I believe in, than to go give my life for something that only causes other human beings pain and suffering.

S&F Good question!

If they wanted me to go fight in Syria or Iran, then they can jog on. I would only join up If there was imminent threat to the UK.... Or if we decided to go re-take the Colonies.....