If your Country instituted a Draft/Conscription would you go or dodge it?

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posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Boscov
 

By the way, we are in the midst of another Cold War. Actually, the previous Cold War never ended, it just dug down deeper, way deeper, and is re-surfacing again.




posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:10 AM
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Runawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Your entire argument is based on the notion of selective and/or conditional love of one's nation. I don't 'do' conditional or context based loyalty. Context based loyalty is another way of describing a rat who hasn't been offered the right price to turn snitch or traitor yet. Period.

You throw in lots of ideas about change and what if's, while leaving out the most critical one. WHAT IF a draft is called? It means, quite simply, the nation is in a fight it may well lose. Vietnam was the last draft of any kind and probably good since it wasn't a draft of survival but one of political convinience. It's good it died on that note.

However, if Selective Service is started again, you can bet there is a major fight somewhere that even our 1+ million combined forces cannot handle. That isn't the time I'm going to get picky about how much my Nation "earned" the life ring it's come to beg for in staying alive.


Now you can argue the Draft would be called for countless less important things ...and I could argue that a daisy can suspend an elephant from a cliff's edge. On paper, hey, anything could happen. In the REAL world we inhabit, the last one to be outside of survival, as noted, ended the draft in a practical sense. I'll assume politicians want more than one more term to serve...so wouldn't call it for anything short of survival...lest their OWN be what they need worry about.


Further... There is a BASIC issue here and it's a BIG one. If someone is 18 or under (stuck here) this doesn't apply. However, if someone is over the age of 18 and able bodied? I'll buy them the plane ticket to get out of my nation as soon as flights make it available if they dislike the nation that much. They'd suck off it's benefits, bitch about it's shortcomings, then run like cowards when the tab comes due for the lifetime of high living standards than the world generally enjoys.

Well... If the nation sucks...3 things can be done. CHANGE IT. FIGHT IT. or LEAVE IT. This "suck it dry and walk away" is how enemies consider a place, not those who deeply love it. Draft Dodgers are the worst kind of cowards. They don't even have the guts to stand for their own unwillingness to fight.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok
 


Your entire argument is based on the notion of selective and/or conditional love of one's nation. I don't 'do' conditional or context based loyalty. Context based loyalty is another way of describing a rat who hasn't been offered the right price to turn snitch or traitor yet. Period.


Further... There is a BASIC issue here and it's a BIG one. If someone is 18 or under (stuck here) this doesn't apply. However, if someone is over the age of 18 and able bodied? I'll buy them the plane ticket to get out of my nation as soon as flights make it available if they dislike the nation that much. They'd suck off it's benefits, bitch about it's shortcomings, then run like cowards when the tab comes due for the lifetime of high living standards than the world generally enjoys.

Well... If the nation sucks...3 things can be done. CHANGE IT. FIGHT IT. or LEAVE IT. This "suck it dry and walk away" is how enemies consider a place, not those who deeply love it. Draft Dodgers are the worst kind of cowards. They don't even have the guts to stand for their own unwillingness to fight.



So takeing this unconditional support of ones country. Were those in NAZI Germnay right to not queation Hitler and just turn up for service and go to war?

What about the ones that refused and ended up in Prison or Concentration camps? Are they cowards and Traitors too for refuseing to fight for what they dont beleive?

I agree that those that skip to another country are weak at heart and in some way cowards (though depends on circumstance really) BUT if one stays and refused to fight and makes a stand then no they derserve respect.

Sorry to cut some of your post out. Although a good point the likley hood of a draft wasnt the queation in the topic only would you or would you not fight? and if not how would you resist and why.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by Hushabye
 

Oh. So it is broken you say. And instead of fixing it or fighting for our nation's survival, you would abandon it? Where would you go? And when things get tough there, you leave again? Go ahead and dodge it. You will soon see that Patriotism is alive and well. I get it that you don't want to die fighting a proxy war. I do not either. However, if your country calls for you, you respond. It is not a right to be a "fair weather" citizen. So yeah, go to Canada, or Argentina, or wherever. Just do all of us proud Americans a favor and don't come back. Why not just flee now if you won't answer the call when WE need YOU most. I am not in favor of any situation that would lead to a draft, but if it did come a knockin' I would fight and band together with my fellow citizens. The whole, "I won't fight for some politician" is absurd and borderline anarchist. If you do not trust your elected officials to make the right choices, who would you trust? Step up or step out.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Wow... You couldn't resist? I'd wondered if someone would reach deep down in the sewer for a Nazi comparison. That pretty well dumps my respect for your point....across the board. Those without merit to a point reach for emotional appeal for it's own sake. Nazis represent a base and visceral emotional appeal for those who aren't outright repulsed at the attempt to divert a topic in the first place.


Since you must go where reasonable debate rarely sinks outside some threads here? We can address it in the narrow way it kinda...sorta...if looked at JUST RIGHT to fit, MIGHT apply.

The Germans were so infatuated by this man who would make the trains run on time and bring them something besides defeat, shame and humiliation as the world forced on Germany at the end of World War I, that they freely and openly elected that monster. They cheered him...as did parts of the entire world (for a period of time).

By the time they saw it was far too late and their Military was one of pure conquest for evil? The had no vote to give. No voice to raise and no ability to do a damn thing to change any of it. Those who tried suddenly found themselves very Jewish for all the difference it made in how THEY joined the real ones in the camps.

America has no comparison...HAS HAD no comparison...and God willing, WILL NEVER HAVE a true comparison to the points and features of the Germany Nazi Party. Nothing in history did or, hopefully, ever will again. The Nazis were't what Hollywood portrays and the comparisons start and end right about at script level.

In 100 years.. I wonder.. can people stop grabbing that lifeline in a debate? It's as ugly as it is misplaced.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Haha, I think I'd fall over from laughter, what are they going to say?

Hey we need you to go defend freedom? Yeah... Right. like how many times has that been used up.


Let the congress and the senate and president go fight the wars is how I feel. Wars do not benefit me, they do not benefit my family my friends, or neighbors. They're the ones who are obsessed with killing poor people around the globe.
edit on 26-6-2013 by Lysergic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


You pose a good debate. Those who did stand up to Hitler were not dodging. They were fighting. So yes, we must acknowledge a fighter when we see or hear one. I assume, however, that most consider dodging a draft to mean leaving the country or going to prison, not leading an uprising against an oppressive regime. To assume the point you are making, one must think of the America that would institute a draft as such a regime. To simply say I will not fight for America because I do not agree with the basis of the conflict is the progressive tide of today. It sounds good, makes one feel more righteous. But the situation would remain. It solves nothing, unless you fight how you can.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok
 


Wow... You couldn't resist? I'd wondered if someone would reach deep down in the sewer for a Nazi comparison. That pretty well dumps my respect for your point....across the board. Those without merit to a point reach for emotional appeal for it's own sake. Nazis represent a base and visceral emotional appeal for those who aren't outright repulsed at the attempt to divert a topic in the first place.


Since you must go where reasonable debate rarely sinks outside some threads here? We can address it in the narrow way it kinda...sorta...if looked at JUST RIGHT to fit, MIGHT apply.

The Germans were so infatuated by this man who would make the trains run on time and bring them something besides defeat, shame and humiliation as the world forced on Germany at the end of World War I, that they freely and openly elected that monster. They cheered him...as did parts of the entire world (for a period of time).

By the time they saw it was far too late and their Military was one of pure conquest for evil? The had no vote to give. No voice to raise and no ability to do a damn thing to change any of it. Those who tried suddenly found themselves very Jewish for all the difference it made in how THEY joined the real ones in the camps.

America has no comparison...HAS HAD no comparison...and God willing, WILL NEVER HAVE a true comparison to the points and features of the Germany Nazi Party. Nothing in history did or, hopefully, ever will again. The Nazis were't what Hollywood portrays and the comparisons start and end right about at script level.

In 100 years.. I wonder.. can people stop grabbing that lifeline in a debate? It's as ugly as it is misplaced.





I honnestly do not see the problem in the comparison.

Im illustrateing a point that unconditional support of ones country can be dangrous. And that just because the majority goes along with something bad does that mean you should go along with it. I was not trying to appeal emotionaly just stateing a hsitorical example.

No the USA is not anywere near that yet.


But the underlying principle is the same.

Ok lets leave the Germany comparison seeing Im not allowed to use that (
)

Take vietnam? I think most agree the USA had no buisness being there right?

Now if nobody had turned up for service and or had volenteerd the USA would have had no choice to withdraw right? Withdrawing would have had no effect on US security.

Were those that stood there ground and went to prison Traitors and Cowards?

I am makeing the point of should those that want to do the right thing but are in the minority either due to apathy, manipulation or fear just go along with the rest of the crowd or are they right to resist?


Would you want a Child/Brother/Sister/Nepthew ect to go and risk there lifes not for National Security but so Obama and his ilk can play toy soldiers while there sons and daughters stay at home and live the good life or if they cant find a loophole join a champaign unit and sit the war out in a cushy posting foing nothing?
edit on 26-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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BTDT, and too old at this point even though they make the occasional half-hearted try to get me to reup as NG as a "mentor" . So, I am all for it. While you're gone though, I'll make sure your wives and gf's are ok.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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It would depend on the reasons for the draft.

If I was convinced on the basis of facts provided that victory was essential for the survival of the UK, I would go when asked. Any stakes less extreme than that and I would say no.

I have no desire to be ground up into mince to boost some corporations earnings or fluff a political ego.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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I wouldn't dodge it by leaving the country. I would refuse to fight and face the consequences of my actions which would likely be prison. I have been prepared to do that ever since I registered for selective service. I would hope that I would be classified as a conscientious objector due to my religious beliefs.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
I wouldn't dodge it by leaving the country. I would refuse to fight and face the consequences of my actions which would likely be prison. I have been prepared to do that ever since I registered for selective service. I would hope that I would be classified as a conscientious objector due to my religious beliefs.


Along the same lines of what I would do.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:19 PM
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Having joined the army as a scout and having become walking wounded, I 'd go back if asked because I do believe in the idea of America. And if my idea is inaccurate then I guess we'll have to fix it not run from it.
A person SHOULD try to be his brothers keeper after all.

How long will dodgers run? Mexico ,Canada good luck.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
in the idea of America.

But to enforce it at sword point round the world?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
And if my idea is inaccurate then I guess we'll have to fix it not run from it.

Well I agree one should not run. But no change will happen if people keep signing up or makeing themselfs avalible to be sent into the meat grinder for no reason other than to make Obama Or (insert fool here) happy.


Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Canada good luck.

I would hardly call Canada a thrid world crap hole like Mexico
edit on 26-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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Of course not but you won't get away any more.There is too much information flying around about you when you do that.
I can see some who don't want to fight would try it But then you may find yourself up front BECAUSE you ran.
How fortunate those of us with sharper edges do it for you so you don't have to.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7

How fortunate those of us with sharper edges do it for you so you don't have to.


But unless it is for national security then no one should be doing anything in the first place?



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:33 PM
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I wont fight unless they invade.

They = Foreign or Domestic



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


I'd fight - for the future of my daughter.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by EA006
reply to post by crazyewok
 


I'd fight - for the future of my daughter.



But unless your are fighting a threat to your country how will it affect your daughters future?

How will say going into Syria or Iran or if we take past example Vietnam or Iraq have any bareing on her life?





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