Supreme Court on Prop 8: Gay Marriage Legal in California

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posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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Well you know what sounds more "equal" to me? A vote of 8 million people, not 5 judges. (With 1 of the judges having gay ties) Not to mention the recent news of Obama threatening Chief Justice Roberts to push through Obamacare.


edit on 26-6-2013 by cass1dy09 because: sp




posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by zeeon
I'm rather irritated by this decision. Not that I care about gay marriage - rather I'm upset about how this effects the will of the people to decide how they are governed.

Let us not forget it was a popular majority (in a democracy) that voted to approve Prop 8 via ballot measure and then again by an injunction when it was overturned via the district courts.


Million of dollars of outside(of the state) money for prop 8 much from churches like the Mormons as well as the Roman Catholic church
I am a christian deist and do not believe in or feel bound bound to obey any organized religion or laws forced on me by interference of religion. (separation of church and state)

Plus many out of state "volunteers" flooded to state to support prop 8.

I don't feel that its fair when you have national groups and massive amounts of out of state money butt in on state maters.

edit on 26-6-2013 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 

Sorry, I really don't understand you.

The US Supreme Court rules on the question of whether something violates the US Constitution. Happens all the time, nobody cares (unless they lose).

State Supreme Courts rule on the question of whether something violates their State Constitution. Happens all the time, nobody cares (unless they lose).

California Supreme Court rules on the question of whether something violates the California Constitution. I might be misunderstanding you, but you sound furious. What's up?



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by korathin
[SNIP]


For the record, i nor my acts are an abomination

now, it's unconstitutional to discriminate from Straight to Gay and black to white "All Men Created Equal", this should never have been banned in the first place, we should never have had people voting on what we are "allowed" to do

did straight people have to sit around whilst people voted on their freedoms? or was it a right you had, to get married as pleased?

as i have always said, i would fight for anyone's freedom, gay straight, black or white, i would defend anyone's right to free speech, thought, expression, religion, sexuality etc

why is it such a big issue that we want to be treated equal? what does allowing us the rights and benefits affect you and your life/freedoms?
edit on 27-6-2013 by Gemwolf because: Removed quoted post



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by korathin
 

Sorry, I really don't understand you.

The US Supreme Court rules on the question of whether something violates the US Constitution. Happens all the time, nobody cares (unless they lose).

State Supreme Courts rule on the question of whether something violates their State Constitution. Happens all the time, nobody cares (unless they lose).

California Supreme Court rules on the question of whether something violates the California Constitution. I might be misunderstanding you, but you sound furious. What's up?


Where in the US Federal Constitution does it say the Supreme Court can only rule on Constitutional matters(actually the US Constitution say's nothing about the Supreme Courts functions other than being the single highest Court of dispute in the land).

Your still not getting it. This isn't a law we are talking about, this is an Amendment to a Constitution being ruled as "unconstitutional" by a State Supreme Court, and the Highest Court in the land vacating it's responsibilities to enable this blatant criminal action. I am not furious, I am terrified. Anyone with an iota of insight, should be or ought to be, equally terrified.



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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the bible says all kids of crazy stuff....take a year off every seven years,
Killing your child if they swear at you
killing women if they are not virgins before marriage

not to mention the throngs of contradictions all over the place

they are NOT an abomination, they are PEOPLE who want to love and raise families just like the reast of us.
edit on 27-6-2013 by research100 because: added a sentence


as the otjher poster said, alot of scare tactics were used to sway the calif vote...lots of influx from the mormons etc, they had no business sticking their nose in this.
edit on 27-6-2013 by research100 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by Darth_Prime
 


THIS ISN'T A LAW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. I AM SORRY FOR HAVING TO YELL, BUT YOU PEOPLE ARE TOO THICK HEADED. AN AMENDMENT TO A STATE CONSTITUTION HAS BEEN NULLIFIED BY A STATE SUPREME COURT AND THE HIGHEST COURT OF DISPUTE IS ALLOWING THAT ACTION TO PROCEED!

AMENDMENTS CAN ONLY BE VOIDED BY OTHER AMENDMENTS(unless a State Amendment/Constitution, is found to violate the US Constitution). STATE SUPREME COURTS DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO VOID ELEMENTS OF A STATE CONSTITUTION. IT IS THEIR PRIME DUTY TO ENSURE THE ENTIRE STATE CONSTITUTION IS BEING ADHERED TO!!

This is big.



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by research100
the bible says all kids of crazy stuff....take a year off every seven years,
Killing your child if they swear at you
killing women if they are not virgins before marriage

not to mention the throngs of contradictions all over the place

they are NOT an abomination, they are PEOPLE who want to love and raise families just like the reast of us.
edit on 27-6-2013 by research100 because: added a sentence


as the otjher poster said, alot of scare tactics were used to sway the calif vote...lots of influx from the mormons etc, they had no business sticking their nose in this.
edit on 27-6-2013 by research100 because: (no reason given)


Whatever rationalization you need to tell yourself, tell yourself. But it is utterly dishonest and shameful to sit there with a straight face, and attempt to peddle petty rationalizations why willfully violating the rule of law is a "good thing".



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by Darth_Prime
 


THIS ISN'T A LAW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. I AM SORRY FOR HAVING TO YELL, BUT YOU PEOPLE ARE TOO THICK HEADED. AN AMENDMENT TO A STATE CONSTITUTION HAS BEEN NULLIFIED BY A STATE SUPREME COURT AND THE HIGHEST COURT OF DISPUTE IS ALLOWING THAT ACTION TO PROCEED!

AMENDMENTS CAN ONLY BE VOIDED BY OTHER AMENDMENTS(unless a State Amendment/Constitution, is found to violate the US Constitution). STATE SUPREME COURTS DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO VOID ELEMENTS OF A STATE CONSTITUTION. IT IS THEIR PRIME DUTY TO ENSURE THE ENTIRE STATE CONSTITUTION IS BEING ADHERED TO!!

This is big.


Nope, this is not even remotely how state and federal constitutions have ever worked. Amendments don't need to be "voided" through other amendments. In fact, if you believe that, you don't understand why courts exist. The people are not allowed to "vote" for things that violate the constitution (for example, equal protection and due process). This is why you and your friends can't amend the California constitution to keep all minorities in cages and why I can't amend the California constitution to throw you in prison without any reason.

You may want to check out Federalist No. 10. You may learn a little something about the tyranny of the majority.
edit on 27-6-2013 by buckrogerstime because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 

Dear korathin,

You are right, and I have no excuse but fatigue (it's 1 a.m.), and a rather busy evening. Straighten me out if I'm wrong, while I give it one more try.

California passed a law saying gay marriage would not be recognized.
The State Supreme Court, said "No dice. Unconstitutional law."
The people said " Blank you, and passed Proposition 8, amending the Constitution.
The gay couple said "Ok, it's Constitutional in California, but it violates the US Constitution.
The went to a federal court, which had a trial, but nobody from the State wanted to defend Proposition 8.
The federal court asked the California Supreme Court if it was Ok to let the petition drive leaders defend the law.
California said, "Yep, that's the way we do it, and our laws reflect that."
The federal Court said "We don't like Proposition 8."
The petioners appealed to the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court said "You have no right to be here, and you had no right to defend it in any Federal Court."

The last sentence is what was just decided. I don't like it.

Better?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Condragulations to my home state!

One step closer to Equality

for all the Straight allies out there, as one person, i thank you for standing up for Equality, for wanting equality for all,

to others in the LGBT commutation who are living with this fight for equality, that must sit by as others 'Vote' on what we can and can't do, and what is considered 'Legal' as a Human thank you for staying strong

Unity in Equality




As a conservative, I applaud this ruling.

Freedom and equality for all.



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:25 AM
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Indeed, i'll concur it was almost "Won" by default, or practically won be default,

but as someone who is living this, not on the opposite side talking about it, but living it, it's a step in the right direction, i don't believe any "Law" should say i can or can't get married, it should be a right that i have, but with the current state of affairs and mindsets it has to be


Now let's continue this celebration dolls



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Condragulations to my home state!

One step closer to Equality

for all the Straight allies out there, as one person, i thank you for standing up for Equality, for wanting equality for all,

to others in the LGBT commutation who are living with this fight for equality, that must sit by as others 'Vote' on what we can and can't do, and what is considered 'Legal' as a Human thank you for staying strong

Unity in Equality




As a conservative, I applaud this ruling.

Freedom and equality for all.





and i applaud you for putting aside political paradigms and uniting for equality!



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by korathin
 

Dear korathin,

You are right, and I have no excuse but fatigue (it's 1 a.m.), and a rather busy evening. Straighten me out if I'm wrong, while I give it one more try.

California passed a law saying gay marriage would not be recognized.
The State Supreme Court, said "No dice. Unconstitutional law."
The people said " Blank you, and passed Proposition 8, amending the Constitution.
The gay couple said "Ok, it's Constitutional in California, but it violates the US Constitution.
The went to a federal court, which had a trial, but nobody from the State wanted to defend Proposition 8.
The federal court asked the California Supreme Court if it was Ok to let the petition drive leaders defend the law.
California said, "Yep, that's the way we do it, and our laws reflect that."
The federal Court said "We don't like Proposition 8."
The petioners appealed to the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court said "You have no right to be here, and you had no right to defend it in any Federal Court."

The last sentence is what was just decided. I don't like it.

Better?

With respect,
Charles1952


Perhaps I can ease your mind. You need to be able to demonstrate a "particularized interest" to be a party in any lawsuit, and you need to be able to show some actual personal injury if you want to ask a court for something. There is a pretty good reason for this: If you had a case in federal court, would you want total strangers to interfere with your real, tangible interests? And would you want already overworked courts to keep adjudicating cases with parties that have no interest in the litigation?

edit on 27-6-2013 by buckrogerstime because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime

and i applaud you for putting aside political paradigms and uniting for equality!


For what its worth I believe there are many Conservatives out there, that feel the same way.

Life changes the way you see things when family or a close friend decides to come out and say they are Gay. How can one turn away from their loved ones, when they can find the courage to say with their pride that this is who they are?

We need to break the barriers that have been put up by those unwilling to change. People need to understand that Gay people are not going to go away. You cannot force them to hide. Just my honest opinion on this.


edit on 27-6-2013 by sonnny1 because: typo



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

and i applaud you for putting aside political paradigms and uniting for equality!


For what its worth I believe there are many Conservatives out there, that feel the same way.

Life changes the way you see things when family or a close friend decides to come out and say they are Gay. How can one turn away from their loved ones, when they can find the courage to say with their pride that this is who they are?

We need to break the barriers that have been put up by those unwilling to change. People need to understand that Gay people are not going to go away. You cannot force them to hide. Just my honest opinion on this.


edit on 27-6-2013 by sonnny1 because: typo


and i applaud you again, i am sure there are many who agree with you,

the sad thing is, many can turn away from their loved ones, my story being a prime example, and as generations continue and the divide growing, it's a struggle to unite under humanity and equality

and i appreciate anyone who is willing to put aside political paradigms and dogma to support Equality for everyone



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by buckrogerstime
 

Dear buckrogerstime,

Thank you very much, but it doesn't ease my mind.

California's proposition system is very unusual, I have been led to believe. The courts are very watchful, and in a unanimous State Supreme Court decision, they ruled that the petitioners did have standing. Under the California laws and legal system the particularized interest was recognized.

The US Supreme Court said, basically, "We're not going to give California any weight in deciding who has standing, we're going to apply a different set of rules." The result is that if the state decides not to defend a citizen passed proposition, no one else can either (in the Federal Courts). This renders the citizens non-entities in any proposition that can possibly be stretched to question the US Constitution.

California wanted to give it's citizens power, and the Supreme Court has taken it away.

But if we want to go that way anyway, consider the dissent in the DOMA case. They point out that there is no "Case or Controversy" since the petitioner and the respondent both want the same outcome, and both have agreed with the courts in the last three levels. Yet the majority said, "That's a good case for us to hear."

I think I need a drink. It's not the result I object to, but the reasoning bugs the daylights out of me.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 03:38 AM
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Can people now stop saying that homosexuality is an abomination and such, I consider this as hate speech pure and simply and hate speech is against T&C.
Gay marriage is legal...most of the world is making it legal deal with it or please leave this planet.



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 


Hi boymonkey! For sure, if I ever decide to marry you will definitely get an invite, as will the Benevolent one! Hope you guys are prepared for a trip to darkest Africa? Haha! Thanks to both of you for your support!





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