Texas Lawmaker attempts to block stringent abortion restrictions with 13 hour filibuster

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sure there are, but when polled the majority of people didn't want this bill passed, and didn't want a special session dealing with abortion. The governor called the special session, and then late in it announced that they were going to vote on this bill to stop abortion.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Metallicus

 

It's not just the 20 weeks part though. I could live with it if it was just that. All procedures will have to take place in a surgical center, and the doctor performing the abortion must have rights at a hospital within 30 miles. That means that of the 42 abortion clinics in Texas, 37 will have to close.

Well, that puts abortion under the same safety and sanitation standards as similar surgical procedures. I never understood why everything has the same oversite and guidelines except for this one particular issue.

Of course physicians are unhappy with this: you get much more money if you do a procedure in your office vs the surgical center. At the surgical center, all they get is a professional fee. In the office, not only is the fee higher, but there is less overhead and he can charge for his disposables at a decent mark-up. Abortion, right or wrong, is a billion dollar industry so there is a lot of money at stake here.

reply to post by Zaphod58
Is it just me, or is there something kinda sketchy about the passage of any legislation being determined by the size of one's bladder?

reply to post by NavyDoc


I agree with the point that was brought up during the filibuster though. If this was for the safety of women (requiring a surgical center to perform it), then why aren't vasectomies and other procedures for men required to be done in a surgery center? If it's good for women, then it should be good for men too.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


NO one says you can't pee.

Just can't leave to do it!

Best bring a Gatorade bottle or two

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Sure there are, but when polled the majority of people didn't want this bill passed, and didn't want a special session dealing with abortion. The governor called the special session, and then late in it announced that they were going to vote on this bill to stop abortion.

You mean the majority of people polled didn't want this, not the majority of Texans. You can't trust polls. The people administering the polls can easily skew results to favor any agenda. Example, they can poll urban areas where voters tend to be Democrat, or they can poll rural areas where voters tend to be Conservative. I can't recall which issue it was on the gun debate earlier this year but a poll was done and they only polled voters in Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, and Connecticut and tried to pass off the results as a "nationwide" poll.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

I agree with the point that was brought up during the filibuster though. If this was for the safety of women (requiring a surgical center to perform it), then why aren't vasectomies and other procedures for men required to be done in a surgery center? If it's good for women, then it should be good for men too.

Why can you have a mole removed in a doctor's office but have to go to the surgery center to have your appendix out? Because they are two radically different procedures with radically different potential complications.

Minor procedures: lancing a boil, biopsy of a mole, vasectomy, steroid injection in a joint, and so forth have extremely low potential of a catastrophic complication. There are no major arteries in the region. There is no internal organs involved.

A uterus is a very vascular organ and during a D&C there is a risk of severe hemorrhage, uterine disruption/rupture, septic shock, etc.

I could take out your appendix on my kitchen table quite easily and much cheaper, but would that be a safe or smart thing to do? I don't think it unreasonable to put abortion in line with the standards of procedures with similar levels of invasiveness. It was because of money and lobbying that got them their exemption in the first place.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Even if you went and asked every person in Texas if they wanted this, and the majority said they didn't, that wouldn't be good enough for some. Apparently you don't have a problem with them changing times on votes, and pulling the things they did because you're against abortion. Whatever it takes, whether it breaks their rules or not right?

The thing that 99% of people screaming about this are ignoring is this...

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU WHAT SOMEONE ELSE DOES WITH THEIR BODY.

These same religious ranting hypocrites are the first to scream foul when it's a government dictating to them, but they are the first ones to be screaming about controlling people they will never meet.

Here are some facts...

1. This will shut down many abortion clinics. Whatever you think about the term time and legality, if you think this is right or fair you are clearly using this to further your own religious dogma and trying to force your will onto others regardless of that term time.

2. You cannot claim to be a libertarian on one hand, screaming about your rights to do as you wish, while also trying to control others. This is the very definition of the word HYPOCRITE.

3. The majority should never have the right to vote on the rights of others when those rights have no bearing on their own lives. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to tell others how to live their lives based on YOUR own opinions, and this is NOT democracy however much you might claim that it is.

4. There are many reasons why a woman might need to terminate a pregnancy beyond what YOU think is acceptable. Deal with it, grow up, move on with your of damn life.

I can't believe people are still having these battles in the 21st century. America looks more and more backward with each passing year, stuck in a time warp of religious insanity and hypocritical policy makers.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Even if you went and asked every person in Texas if they wanted this, and the majority said they didn't, that wouldn't be good enough for some. Apparently you don't have a problem with them changing times on votes, and pulling the things they did because you're against abortion. Whatever it takes, whether it breaks their rules or not right?

I agree. The democratic process should be followed, however, having a disruptive mob disrupting the vote was not part of the democratic process either.

reply to post by NavyDoc


It's hard to find exact numbers for abortion related deaths (from direct complications), but it looks like it's less than 3 per 100,000, which if accurate is less than the 5% mortality rate from a vasectomy.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
The thing that 99% of people screaming about this are ignoring is this...

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU WHAT SOMEONE ELSE DOES WITH THEIR BODY.

These same religious ranting hypocrites are the first to scream foul when it's a government dictating to them, but they are the first ones to be screaming about controlling people they will never meet.

Here are some facts...

1. This will shut down many abortion clinics. Whatever you think about the term time and legality, if you think this is right or fair you are clearly using this to further your own religious dogma and trying to force your will onto others regardless of that term time.

2. You cannot claim to be a libertarian on one hand, screaming about your rights to do as you wish, while also trying to control others. This is the very definition of the word HYPOCRITE.

3. The majority should never have the right to vote on the rights of others when those rights have no bearing on their own lives. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to tell others how to live their lives based on YOUR own opinions, and this is NOT democracy however much you might claim that it is.

4. There are many reasons why a woman might need to terminate a pregnancy beyond what YOU think is acceptable. Deal with it, grow up, move on with your of damn life.

I can't believe people are still having these battles in the 21st century. America looks more and more backward with each passing year, stuck in a time warp of religious insanity and hypocritical policy makers.

Decaf...try it.

reply to post by NavyDoc


While I agree, there is another aspect of this which was good to see. For once there were people actually interested in what was going on with the governmental process, and paying attention to what the government was trying to do.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Even if you went and asked every person in Texas if they wanted this, and the majority said they didn't, that wouldn't be good enough for some. Apparently you don't have a problem with them changing times on votes, and pulling the things they did because you're against abortion. Whatever it takes, whether it breaks their rules or not right?

Okay, you just completely dove into arbitrary conjecture there.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


No, I'm going on the lengths that people have gone to stop abortion. I never said it was your belief, but that there are people out there that don't care what it takes, and that even if everyone in the state said they didn't want a bill banning abortion, they would do whatever it took to make it happen anyway.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

It's hard to find exact numbers for abortion related deaths (from direct complications), but it looks like it's less than 3 per 100,000, which if accurate is less than the 5% mortality rate from a vasectomy.

5% mortality rate from a vasectomy? You have got to be kidding. With all due respect, I think you may have confused "morbidity" with mortality. Mortality is rate of death. Morbidity is rate of complications and yes, the complication rate from vasectomy is about 5%: swelling, pain, dehissence "popping stitches." Death is almost impossible. You could cut off your balls with garden shears by accident and you won't die. Think about it: there is no large blood vessels there and the organ is extra-abdominal. Comparing a vasectomy to a tubal ligation is the same as comparing pulling out a ingrown toenail to a tonsillectomy: they are simply not comparable at all.

Tubal ligation involves cutting and tying a woman's fallopian tubes, which are well below muscles and other tissue in the abdomen. It requires a general anesthetic and a hospital visit.

A couple of statistics might make the differences even more clear:
•Fatalities per 100,000: tubal ligation = 3.51; vasectomy = 0

Potential complications of vasectomy:

There has never been a death with a vasectomy. Of course, as is the case with any surgical procedure, there's always a small risk for bleeding, infection, or allergic reaction to the anesthetic, causing a rash. Complications specific to vasectomy include the possibility of a sperm granuloma, testicular pain, and epididymitis. Also, in very rare instances, a man can lose a testicle.

A sperm granuloma occurs if sperm leak from the vasectomy site or a rupture in the epididymis and provoke an inflammatory reaction. About a half-inch in diameter, they require further attention in only about two percent of men. About one percent of men experience aching testicles from congestion in the epididymis. This usually disappears within six months. Epididymitis is an inflammation at the vasectomy site, usually taking place within the first year. Heat and anti-inflammatory medicine usually clear it up in about a week.

By far the most common complication we see is swelling of the scrotum in guys who refuse to take it easy for a couple of days after a vasectomy. Unfortunately, once the swelling starts, it may take two weeks for it to reduce completely, so prevention is the best approach.

www.malehealthcenter.com...

Now lets look at potential complications from an abortion. Firstly, complication rate increases as the age of the gestation increases. There is much more risk at 20 weeks than there is at 4 weeks. Why? because it is a bigger surgery and the blood flow to the uterus is much, much greater and the walls of the uterus are much, much thinner.

•
Complications of anesthesia

•
Postabortion triad (ie, pain, bleeding, low-grade fever)

•
Hematometra

•
Retained products of conception

•
Uterine perforation

•
Bowel and bladder injury

•
Failed abortion

•
Septic abortion

•
Cervical shock

•
Cervical laceration

•
Disseminated intravascular coagulation

emedicine.medscape.com...

Using national data from the Pregnancy Mortality Surveillance System (37), CDC identified 12 abortion-related deaths for 2008 (Table 25). These deaths were identified either by some indication of abortion on the death certificate, by reports from a health-care provider or public health agency, or from a media report. Investigation of these cases indicated that all 12 deaths were related to legal abortion and none to illegal abortion. The national legal induced abortion case-fatality rate for 2004–2008 was 0.64 legal induced abortion-related deaths per 100,000 reported legal abortions. Possible abortion-related deaths that occurred during 2009–2012 are under investigation.

CDC

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

While I agree, there is another aspect of this which was good to see. For once there were people actually interested in what was going on with the governmental process, and paying attention to what the government was trying to do.

I don't disagree that participation is a good thing, I just have a problem with activists disrupting and trying to shout down the democratic process. How would one feel about this if a bunch of NRA activists shouted down and otherwise disrupted a gun control vote in, say, the New Jersey or Connecticut, senate?

reply to post by NavyDoc


My bad. They listed both in the same category. When I went back and looked you were right.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

My bad. They listed both in the same category. When I went back and looked you were right.

No worries. It is not an uncommon mistake for the layperson who is not used to the jargon.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

No, I'm going on the lengths that people have gone to stop abortion. I never said it was your belief, but that there are people out there that don't care what it takes, and that even if everyone in the state said they didn't want a bill banning abortion, they would do whatever it took to make it happen anyway.

Can you blame them? Many people don't want a child's life to be snuffed out. I can't blame any of them for wanting to protect human life.