We are fortunate technology exist to keep us save.

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posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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Not so very long ago I had a little debate with my friend about the actions of this whistleblower Snowden. My friend said that the US government should jail him and make an example out of him. Show other government employees in simular sensitive and responisible positions that government secrets must be kept. Disclosing government secrets because you personally do not agree with how these secrets fit in "the system" is no excuse.

Even if you know for sure that certain procedures or policies are against the law, a government worker under oath can not share this information with the "outside" world.

Yes, my friend says..it is vital that people who work with government secrets trust their government and should understand that what they do is part of a bigger plan to make things better for the nation and its citizens. People who make policy for the country are intelligent people and have thought things carefully over before they decide to do things which can be explained as against the law.

I have nothing to hide...so the government can store my telephone conversations and e-mails and whatever they like if it maybe someday can be used to catch a criminal or terrorist. Criminals and terrorist are becomming smarter and we should help the intelligence agencies wherever we can....to make the nation save for ourselves and our children.

If we do not take such measures and because of that not able to defend our society against enemies, domestic or foreign, the country will spiral into a free for all.

It is better to trust your government and let the people behind the curtains do their job. That way we can walk safely over the streets, go to work and raise our children in peace. So if this Snowden guy decide to tell the world about the illigal activities of the government and explain them as a threat to our liberty he will cause exactly what the government was trying to prevent..

After hearing this I told my friend I must think about it a little bit more....just because I do not want to tell him later...."Ich habe es nicht gewüst".

What do you guys think? "Let them have all the information about my communications and whatever they need" or do you maybe think something like....."Is it save for me to explain my different views here on ATS?"




posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 


What I did tell my friend is that being able to store and being able to listen to all communications is a very powerful tool. What kind of human being is able to use such a tool properly and without temptation.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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When you make a position of power that is above the law it is abused. Simple as that. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you create a intelligence network that has blanket immunity for spying on anyone, they will abuse it.


This is highlighted throughout history.


It may start with good intentions, but as the cliche goes. That's how the path to hell was paved. Stratfor wanted to use its intelligence to make money with StratCAP. The UK used Echelon to spy on royals and PMs. US spying on its own people to quell political uprising, the oval office to bog down it's opposition. (Watergate, IRS Scandal, et al.)

The lists of these things being abused goes on and on and on.



It is so simple.

The problem, is "If we aren't doing it, our enemies are!" attitude. And at one point it didn't matter. The idea was not to become like your enemies.

Morality slips away in the technological age where simply clicking buttons can order massive destruction.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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Your friend is brainwashed , uneducated and he never read the constitution or he is goverment employer.Next time you meet him tell him this quote form 17th century

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

Cardinal Richelieu
edit on 25-6-2013 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-6-2013 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-6-2013 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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People who are willing to give up all their freedoms for a little bit of perceived security irritate me to no end. I cannot respect it.

We are NOT being kept safe, as evidenced by the horrible things that continue to happen to people that were not picked up by this massive spying apparatus.

The NSA's excuse that they stopped a bunch of terrorist acts is much like a person wearing a tin foil hat and then saying the foil is stopping aliens from reading their thoughts, and the proof was in the absence of activity.

If you want to live in a totalitarian police state that spys on EVERYBODY just to catch one potential criminal out of millions, then go for it. But to suggest that we all give up our freedoms is absolute insanity! As another poster pointed out, it WILL be abused.

I'd rather take my chances living free, rather than being a rat in a cage that is being observed 24/7.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


It is typical that presidents, the millitairy and many in the intelligence sector think the way my friend does...It is so easy to be convinced that nobody wants total control. Yet the government think we need it...and want it.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 


"He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin.

Founding father.

Too bad so many people ignore such important words.

edit on 25-6-2013 by applesthateatpeople because: i went too far



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 


My friend said that the US government should jail him and make an example out of him. Show other government employees in simular sensitive and responisible positions that government secrets must be kept.

There's a big difference between keeping secrets and spying on ordinary citizens. Governments spy on each other all the time. They want to know each others military technology and plans. Thats a far cry from snooping on average citizens.

Manning and Snowden weren't ordinary citizens anyway, they were inside. The government can't regulate their own members and yet used these incidents to justify surveillance of the masses.

The information they released didn't hurt any but the reputation of the United States.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:39 PM
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So how many people have looked at the judges who sit on the FISA court who are in charge of this spying?

Did you know the judge from the Monica Lewinsky case is there?

Did you know the judge who defended BP on the amount of money they could be fined is there?

Did you know the judge who said you can't stop the oil drilling in order to make sure they are safe is there?

Did you know one of them defended China in a espionage case is there?

How about the judge who worked with Kenneth Star in his investigations he is there?

The FISA court is a political court of judges who try and control politics and politicians and even the news with there secret power. These are the guys who are spying on us.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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So recently I watched a Movie called "Snitch" it was based on a true story and about a kid whose buddy sent him a box of drugs in the mail in an attempt to lessen his own prison sentence. I recommend watching it as it is truly an eye opener.

Now imagine if I could set up someone I was mad at with a simple phone call, email or text? Maybe I am a pissed off girlfriend and I go to your email, Facebook or phone book and send out a threatening email.

People are already going to jail for thought crimes in this Country. If I had a dollar for every time I said I wanted to kill someone or break someone in half or run them off a roadway I would be wealthy beyond belief. However I never did any of those things as I was able to vent my rage. Take away the ability to vent that rage and sooner or later, POP!

When I was a pissed off kid the lack of mediums like Facebook, twitter and forums such as these probably kept my loud mouthed ass out of jail........

Kinda like criminalizing a fist fight in school. If the dogs can't nip at each other once in a while for fear of being locked in a cage sooner or later they will explode and kill something. What makes us think we are any different?

This level of surveillance and the ability to store decades of information combined is a ticking time bomb. With it now being public knowledge it is only a matter of time until every law enforcement agency in the Country has quick and easy access to your entire life. Do we really want to give up that much freedom?
edit on 25-6-2013 by Mamatus because: Gwammer and speeeeling


Had to add this: Imagine yourself being accused of a crime you did not commit. Now imagine yourself on the stand in your own testimony when the prosecutor asks "Where were you on June 17th at 3:47pm" You reply "I think I was taking a shower getting ready for work". His response? "Sir you are a liar, At 3:47pm you were watching pornographic videos". Truly sit down and think about the ramifications of the Government keeping better records of your life than you do..........
edit on 25-6-2013 by Mamatus because: added content



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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We are fortunate technology exist to keep us save

Yes, but technology doesn't always work to our benefit. Spellcheck technology evidently did not keep you safe from confusing the word "save" with "safe"?

See...Technology is a tool, nothing more. It has no incentive to keep anyone safe, it has no morals or mind...and the same powerful technology that "keeps us safe" can and is used to do us harm...wether it be our constitution or physical safety.

We are now, as we have ever been, only as safe as the people that use those tools...a rock...a gun...a nuclear weapon or a massive Multi-Billion dollar information gathering technology that is incapable of even comprehending the vaguest sentiment of the constitution.

I don't dislike the technology...I don't not trust the technology...that is like disliking a rock....I don't trust those in control of the technology.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 


Yes, very good arguments and many will agree with you...except the ones who should know better. And that is why I have trouble to understand the reasoning of the US government. Who benefits and for what reason...probably an obvious one.
edit on 25/6/2013 by zatara because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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Absolute power corrupts absolutely......think long and hard about that. The more power they get, the more they want, the more they take, more,more,more. We are cattle to them, nothing but their work horses and sadly technology has made it easier for them to keep ahold of their power. They get to know us through our phone calls and internet uses our likes who we are etc...which makes it easier for them to sell us their X-Box ones, the smart phones that watch you, the computer that knows your every move.

They are more concerned with finding out your traits and what they can use to make you more susceptible to slavery then they are if you are an actual terrorist.

Technology had the potential to be something wonderful instead it is simply a tool for use against the slaves by those in power.

As for Snowden, your friend is right and wrong. Snowden took a job for the CIA knowing that he would have to keep secrets and he chose to expose those secrets...making him a trader yes. But I believe his intentions were good however it really doesn't matter since we are to wrapped up into our daily lives and our t.v. shows and thinking ablout work tomorrow that what Snowden did was essentially useless. In three months we will have forgotten about it.

And here is something I find really weird considering we don't have smart phones or laptops or computer cameras set up. A few weeks ago I said to my husband "I need a new razor this ones getting old" the very next day a 100% free coupon came in the mail for....you guessed it a fracking razor, wtf? Strange coincidence or what?



edit on 25-6-2013 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 08:16 PM
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There is great reason for concern about the extent of the NSA program. Thankfully I havn't heard of any link between this and the IRS targeting tea party supporters or anything similar. That thin line is the only way the NSA program can be rationalized. Crossing that line would confirm that the country is ruled by the same tyrannical people we were supposed to keep from power with the Constitution.

I would like to understand how the Boston terrorists were successful considering even Russia gave us a heads up on these guys.

I have nothing to hide, yet I fear the NSA 10x more than I do a terrorist. A terrorist or invading foreign army cannot destroy our country as effective as our own politicians do. It's unfortunate a man had to essentially give up his life to expose the dirt on the NSA.

Its funny how the same thing that 'keeps you safe' also gives more power and control to the select few. Anybody who trades liberty for security deserves neither.





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