The Five Eyes and Global Surveillance

Last week it was revealed to us that the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, together known as the five eyes, all most likely have a program similar to PRISM and that all these countries share intelligence information with each other. If you haven't heard of The Five Eyes then I suggest you take a look at this thread.

So isn't it obvious now how they are able to get away with this... over and over again the US Government will claim it only targets foreign people and the most it will collect on US citizens is relatively benign meta data. However the same rules apply for any other member of the five eyes, they can spy on foreign people but not on their own citizens.

But now what happens if they all get together and start sharing their data? They have all the information they could ever need about anyone and they can acquire that information without having to spy on their own citizens too much, all they have to do is get it from another member of The Five Eyes. Of course it would be a fully automated process.

Anyway that's my theory. I posted it in the skunk works because I know I don't really have any evidence to prove it and it's a bit of a wild claim. But still I think it's a pretty plausible scenario.

true story ? all the cctv cameras in those 5 countrys are joined up no comment

Originally posted by billdadobbie
true story ? all the cctv cameras in those 5 countrys are joined up

no comment

As far as I know Britain is really the only country of the five that has a bunch of CCTV cameras all over the place. That's one good thing at least.

I like how you finished with 'well that's my theory'
This is exactly what's going on and how they manage to stay within their domestic laws
Britains foreign minister keeps going on and on about how what GCHQ is doing is perfectly legal, and it is because they have found away around the law through co-operation in projects like the five fingers

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by billdadobbie
true story ? all the cctv cameras in those 5 countrys are joined up

no comment

As far as I know Britain is really the only country of the five that has a bunch of CCTV cameras all over the place. That's one good thing at least.

not for long they are going up everywhere with facial recognition every rail station in the uk has a facial rec camera i found that out years ago .

if you have a warrant it is easy to track you with your sim or bank card

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Just to point out most of those cctv cameras are privately owned not by the Government, I have one so no one steals my gnomes

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Just to point out most of those cctv cameras are privately owned not by the Government, I have one so no one steals my gnomes

That's what they want you to think.

Seriously though, many of them are not private, probably at least half or more...

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


If this is right there are ten not five and are all over the world.

But if the link right then that shows that most goverments on some level are working
with each other to watch the public which is a little scary.

Contrary to recent reports there are at least ten, not five, ‘eyes’ that form part of the NSA-led Echelon2 ‘we steal secrets’ network that monitors everyone globally, via wiretaps, PRISM and other technologies. These ten sites and their sub-sites are listed below, compiled from a report by journalist Duncan Campbell and from more recent updates/sightings (all referenced via Internet sleuthing). We also provide an update on recent revelations by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

Darknet

The one in china was set up to watch russia which might show china and the usa
might be a little closer than everyone thinks.

Well when it comes to russia anyway.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Wrong just a simple search will show you that it is private businesses, homes etc that make up the majority of cctv cameras in the UK.
My mate runs a cctv business and he sells to many people and businesses.


National UK figures

Weighted average (matching national urban/rural profile): 2.805 cameras per 100 population
Privately owned cameras in UK = (2.805/100)*60,776,238 = 1,704,773 cameras
Publicly owned cameras in UK = 33,433 (Gerrard/Thompson estimate)
Cameras on public transportation = 115,000 (Gerrard/Thompson estimate, based on Transport for London figures)
Total CCTV cameras in UK = 1.85 million.

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.securitynewsdesk.com...

As you can see over 90% are owned by the public, not the government.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Wrong just a simple search will show you that it is private businesses, homes etc that make up the majority of cctv cameras in the UK.

Even if the Government did own only 10% of them it's still quite a large percentage. Although I don't really trust that figure, it's a low estimation imo. But the fact remains that the UK has many more public cameras than anywhere else that I know of... they are around every corner and watching your every move, it's quite freaky really. The ones out on street corners and in other crowded public places are obviously not private cameras are they. I'm not talking about the cameras tucked away in the properties of private citizens, most countries have many people with cameras on their properties. No other countries have the same amount of public cameras though.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Wrong just a simple search will show you that it is private businesses, homes etc that make up the majority of cctv cameras in the UK.

Even if the Government did own only 10% of them it's still quite a large percentage. Although I don't really trust that figure, it's a low estimation imo. But the fact remains that the UK has many more public cameras than anywhere else that I know of... they are around every corner and watching your every move, it's quite freaky really. The ones out on street corners and in other crowded public places are obviously not private cameras are they. I'm not talking about the cameras tucked away in the properties of private citizens, most countries have many people with cameras on their properties. No other countries have the same amount of public cameras though.

12 years ago a friend could tell me he was sitting at his p.c watching me on the bar cctv system ??? and that was 12 years ago

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


In the town (90 thousand people here) I live near the town center has one cctv up and running I know this because I was interviewed by police when an old guy got run down and I asked the copper "hasn't this town got cctv?" he said "yes but only one on the main street".
Like I said 92% of cameras are privately owned and the police can ask to view any but you can say no and they have to get a warrant to view privately owned ones If you refuse to let them see it.

33k state run cameras for a population of nearly 70 million...not bad in my book.

Back to your OP..so ever camera is compatible with the system?
Good luck prism hacking into mine...it is still uses videotape

The thing about CCTVs and any surveillance, is it can be tricked. there is a device that I thought of but later found so did alot of others. here's one example. CCTV Blinder ( non-english )

The other idea is that via electromagnetics you could completely destroy these cameras without ever giving away who did it, problem with this is you need a focused beam of electromagnetic radiation.

You can build a spy network, and collect information on your people.

But you cannot stop the people from building a spynet on government to collect information about government.

Since the funniest part is, they pool themselves in with the Spy networks, so the spy can be spied on.

reply to post by boymonkey74

33k state run cameras for a population of nearly 70 million...not bad in my book.

Well no is making you leave, if you think it's fine then stay there and do nothing about it.

Back to your OP..so ever camera is compatible with the system?

No I never said that. I don't even know why we are still on this topic. Lets get back to the main topic at hand shall we.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Last week it was revealed to us that the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, together known as the five eyes, all most likely have a program similar to PRISM and that all these countries share intelligence information with each other. If you haven't heard of The Five Eyes then I suggest you take a look at this thread.

So isn't it obvious now how they are able to get away with this... over and over again the US Government will claim it only targets foreign people and the most it will collect on US citizens is relatively benign meta data. However the same rules apply for any other member of the five eyes, they can spy on foreign people but not on their own citizens.

But now what happens if they all get together and start sharing their data? They have all the information they could ever need about anyone and they can acquire that information without having to spy on their own citizens too much, all they have to do is get it from another member of The Five Eyes. Of course it would be a fully automated process.

Anyway that's my theory. I posted it in the skunk works because I know I don't really have any evidence to prove it and it's a bit of a wild claim. But still I think it's a pretty plausible scenario.

edit on 25/6/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

They've been sharing info since the beginning.

I worked with, and for many Aussies, Brits and Canadians during my 24 yrs in.

Yes, this has been common knowledge for at least 30 years now...
They have been monitoring everything since the start of the second world war, and definitely after the 1950's.
and they are only getting better at this.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Under the most recent public version of UKUSA, neither the US nor any Commonwealth countries are considered "foreign countries." UKUSA is explicitly limited to COMINT collected from foreign countries and their agents, so it does not cover the UK collecting from the US citizens, etc. Any sharing would be done under other authorities. I don't think there's much need for this kind of cross-border surveillance anyway. When the US wants to conduct electronic surveillance inside its borders, it's easy enough to get a FISA warrant (or not), and much safer not to involve foreign agencies with their own agendas.