"I Am Sorry That It Has Come to This": A Soldier's Last Words

Originally posted by Ismail
I my mind, not many soldiers are heroes.

This man is a hero.

It's a shame that he felt the need to bear the full brunt of the blame, when he could have used what he saw to raise public awareness about what war really is.

To late for that now, though. At least he had the strengh to say "No".

We need more people like him on this planet.

edit on 25-6-2013 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

People who take orders to kill women and children and follow them? Or people who kill themselves after they do it?

reply to post by johncarter


suicide is not the answer, if he truly felt this way he should have just defected and fight against his nation of terrorist. That being said, there is absolutely nothing courageous or w/e from what this man did, he is a coward and a hypocrite.
2 wrongs don't make a right. One can only redeem themselves from their past.

Part III Reply to REAPER2137,

So, to sum that all up and where it's relevant to the original topic, this young man committing suicide, etc.,

Overall, I myself, put the RESPONSIBILITY ON THE SOCIETY as a WHOLE, because one, though our government does in no way represent what this nation is "supposed" to be about, and I personally would say it, the government was Hijacked decades ago,

But not because they just came in one day and said, "welp, let's take over" oh no, it didn't happen that way, this was a very slow process by DESIGN yes, BUT, and this is Very Important, they were ABLE to do so because WE THE PEOPLE LET THEM.....

By WILLFUL CONSENT BY THEIR

SILENCE.

And it's THEM who I blame the most, the Apathetc, selfish, lazy, and decadent. Really we ALL have some contribution to, even myself, oh yes, as hard as it is to admit because the truth can be very ugly...but WE TOOK REAL FREEDOM for GRANTED. Yes we did. And replaced it with Materialism and Vice. And the MARKET aka government simply exploited what we were so willing to surrender...That process. And I do believe this is very important to take ownership of because until we do, we won't have a fighting chance to save even a Remnant of the Core of what our ancestors believed in.

And it's Not just about the downward spiral of our military, but of Every Institution in this nation...so in an ironic twist, the soldiers in the military, also have to deal with That cognitive dissonance, not about our freedoms, oh no, but our lack of moral resolve to DEMAND our GOVERMENT Clean itself up. This young man, had not only the fact that he was IN a very dangerous environment, IN a really messed up and CORRUPT military/government/globalist agenda, but also a Nation of PEOPLE who, by Far,

Are more interested in their daily comforts not caring WHERE those comforts come from, or how much innocent blood is shed FOR those comforts, but how many of OUR OWN

ARE

SACRIFICED.

And they ARE SACRIFICED,

Be they the poor in prison or the homeless or the soldier who Believed, no matter how naive, that they were fighting an Enemy of FREEDOM only to find that Freedom isn't even on the MENU, and worse,

That majority around him/her is either numb or sold out or fearful OR that they horrifically are on board with the whole program and that that program has approval and backing at HOME.

That's the real travesty in all this...for Every recruit Musical ADVERTISEMENT on TV that depicts the middle class parent, often a mother, with the child adult contemplating the military, and the Moral Sacrifice gist of the marketing add and the Bravo and Honor of Sacrificing to the Noble RoMe Ceasar (analogy) and the smile of pride the mother has that her little Johny or Susie is all grown up and taking the Noble path into adulthood and even while reports of Abu Graib were out, the anti war protests that at Least should have gotten majority of CIVILIANS TO QUESTION,

Yet they by far did not. Why? because they didn't know?

NO

THEY DID NOT CARE

They many relished the demonization if anti war protesters and scoffed at their stands, calling them pinkos and fanatics, and maybe Many of them were, But Regardless, when the Cries of HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS began to be heard, THEN,

THEN WAS THE TIME FOR AMERICANS TO ACT.

THEY DID NOT and when they DID NOT THEY GAVE CONSENT

So Really, AMERICANS KILLED THIS BOY and ALL OTHER SOLDIERS LIKE HIM.

WHEN THEY WERE SILENT OR TOO LAZY TO INVESTIGATE AS WE THE PEOPLE! NOT WE THE ILLITERATE SERFS

THEY GAVE CONSENT.

And THAT, is the REAL WAR CRIME, AGAINST OUR VERY

OWN.

And I do believe, that WE as a NATION, ON JUDGEMENT DAY

WILL HAVE TO ANSWER.

Anyway, That's my stand on this whole thing....I see women, all the time, going over make up, clothes, on and on, stupid stuff, just using that as example, and here we have a percentage of our nation IN HELL

And yet, we DARE to stand like a Proud Peacock...it's disgusting really, it shows just how utterly depraved we are, and by Women I'm talking the Religious Middle and Upper Classes, that's just ONE example,

men too...both right, left, it doesn't matter. We can yes, Blame the evil government and Corporatists, but it's not called

SUPPLY AND DEMAND FOR NOTHING.

I feel for this young man and all like him, I do. But WE need to CHANGE THE ROOT OF ALL OF IT, and it's NOT the ENEMY OVER YONDER

IT'S THE BEAST WITHIN.

When I see many here Rationalizing the most gross evil, all over the web, media, etc., the ROT

Is IN THIS NATION, the TOP, IS SIMPLY THE HEADLIGHTS.

And we're being driven to our own DESTRUCTION AT OUR OWN HANDS.

Originally posted by covertpanther
There is something I would like to point out to those still reading the replies. I am one to believe the english language has many codes and secrets within it. This may seem off topic but you will see in a second - those who CREATE an entire language, based on symbols and sound vibration, and taking older ancient sounds/symbols and combining them or scrammbling them up (anagram) - are way out of today's "league" intellectually.

WIth that saidd I waant to point out the english word - 'Soldier'.

Sol-Die-r = Soul - Die = One who dies

Knowledge and secrets run DEEP; the knowledge of the past (i mean many centuries ago) is deleted out of the minds of todays people. Only a SMALL handful carry the deep, occult, ancient knowledge - and those are the people running everything. Banks, government, religion (RE-legion, if you understand what that means), the Armies (arms are used to fight/war).

So its clear that soldiers have always been the pawns; the ones with knowledge and money have ALWAYS used the dumb men and women to cause chaos and set themselves up further for whatever agenda they are pushing (this stuff goes back centuries as I've said, and look at what they have accomplished today).

Soul = 1 or seperated from the WHOLE

Die = to lose one's life

Soldier is the 1 that is used like a pawn - knowingly that, that individual will eventualy die.

English, ISH, wasn't ish a term for god? ishi, there was even an Ishi tribe, comp,etely wiped out, all but one survivor Native Indians, there is a book (anthropology) about him...

Anyway, off topic, but yes,

ReLegion, legion, many,

Interesting at how entire communities/cities have certain street names, trees and pagan names, in a set pattern. I study or observe this as well, noticed two years ago. Why, no idea, but just something I began to see, a Lot. Just weird seeing someone else, also observing the same.

Look at how many words have MAR in them, or MON, as in Money, Monsanto, MONKEY, KEY, MON KEY.

Wal MAR T

And what does the T really mean?

I think it goes back to the Druids, at least some of it, and then there is the whole thing with the Latin, etc. Letters are a form of Numerology, patterns,

Spain S Pain
Germany GERM an Y
Iraq I raq or I RA Q
Iran I RAN

It goes on and on, English ISH language,

Off topic but yea, it is very weird isn't it?

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by johncarter

 

They say - those who commit suicide blaming a single reason - are liars. There are many reasons for suicide - not just one. Someone who commits suicide has many problems other than where they ultimately place the blame.

This is a lie. A complete lie. I do not understand why the majority of our troops aren't doing this. I do not have a suicidal bone in my body but, if confronted with having to kill innocent children for the profit of evil men, I would off myself in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't have even taken the time to write the letter.


ps - edit - I wanted to add that I agreed with the rest of what you said. There aren't very many excuses left for people who join now days.

Very sad.

His is but one of many stories out there,that probaly resemble this.

I dont see this fixing itself,veterans get little to no help.
Been that way since Vietnam.

The gov uses these brave people and when they are finished,they are thrown to the curb.
These people deserve better,alot better.

~~Jon Stewart revisited a topic that doesn't get much attention in the media: the massive backlog of Veterans Affairs claims. To truly get to the bottom of the estimated backlog of 900,000 claims, Stewart and his Daily Show team presented the epic saga of "Zero Dark 900,000."~~

reply to post by ThreeBears


I am responding to your first post. It was too long to quote, so forgive me for not doing so.

I agree with many of your points, but you must concede that the United States in respect to how Rape is treated, is changing. I've seen this first hand and you only have to look at the news to see what a total embarrassment it's becoming for the Pentagon.

The Army, C.I.D (Criminal Investigative Division) they are pretty much N.C.I.S if you watch the T.V show. Have been restructured to combat this old enemy. Rape, in any forum has been a part of the United States Military for a since it's inception in one form or another.

You will find with the recent debacles, which had the new commander relived for committing the same act, he was placed in charge of a entire division to combat in the first place. So, what you in want is coming now, weather people who don't want it in the military like it or not.

That one act, was such a setback and embarrassment that head are rolling, While Rape in any form isn't going away any time soon, The acts them self are going to go down, as they are going to be handled with more intense actions.

You will never get rid of rape entirely but the atmosphere and way the handle will change. I hope that helps to relive a little of your anger. While I understand and agree with you.

reply to post by ThreeBears


Reply to part 2 of Three bears. See the beginning of part one on why I didn't quote.

I agree completely with what you say. I would just point out, where I was talking about was only limited to the United States in Afghanistan and Iraqi. I can't commit on the "Rape Camp" because I don't know any thing about it. I will be bing it here in a bit because that just pisses me off beyond reason.

Some on this board, will not have a good response such as you did, and I admire that about you. So if you want you have made a friend today. They only want to see the bad, and view the world in some dark Black and white where their can never be any shades of grey. I.E they only want to see what supports their agenda.

I've been to quite a few of the country's you listed, The only place that I can say I ever saw any thing even remotely close to War Crimes was Iraq. It was reported and handled. I can only speak for my self, but there are those in any branch of service or any walk of life for that matter. That don't play by the rules and get their kicks doing things most people would find morally reprehensible.

The media loves to paint the whole after a few, It's like a doctors office where a janitor killed most of the occupants in their sleep. The doctors/Nurses didn't know or maybe caught the guy and turned him in. Yet the media would would still paint a different picture calling them all killers. Little extreme example there I know but you get my point.

The media at least in the United States, does not care about the truth or Fair and balanced journalism any more, they care about ratings and money. Most have a agenda they are pushing and it's hard to get a real story or even part now a days with out spending most of your day reading 10-20 different reports. I'm sure you know what I mean.

reply to post by ThreeBears


I agree, that the country needs to change. It slowly is progression is violent and dirty. Movies and books love to sugar coat how easy it is. Things will always get worse before better, I know it might be stupid to quote Star Trek but on the very first episode of the Next Generation Picard talked about the great event and post atomic horror.

where they killed all the lawyers so humanity is going to get worse much worse until they learn to be better. I look to a future, where we are at peace but I know that is a road we have to fight for and effect change our own two hands.

reply to post by silo13


You're ignorant, unwise, narrow-minded, and offensive.

I don't agree with war either - although sometimes intervening in one is justified. Like the late Christopher Hitchens said (paraphrasing) - ignoring a war with religious fanatics is tantamount to being an apologetic for them. It simply can not continue if the world is to heal.

Yea, yea. War is about killing innocent and oil and... blah blah blah crocodile tears from a delusional suburbanite.

Do you really care about "the little guys" in the war and their family? Then regardless of whether or not you agree with their ideals, you should shut up.

Now is the time to put your money where your mouth is. This isn't about legitimate debate or opinions, it's about respect.

Know how to be ultimately disrespectful? A good way to go about it is by making loud judgements about someone who just killed himself. Someone that you didn't know personally, and have only read about via the article you didn't even bother to thoroughly read.

Shame on all of you non-thinking people who starred this garbage.

Originally posted by raifordko

Originally posted by Ismail
I my mind, not many soldiers are heroes.

This man is a hero.

It's a shame that he felt the need to bear the full brunt of the blame, when he could have used what he saw to raise public awareness about what war really is.

To late for that now, though. At least he had the strengh to say "No".

We need more people like him on this planet.

edit on 25-6-2013 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

People who take orders to kill women and children and follow them? Or people who kill themselves after they do it?

Obviously he meant people who refuse to kill innocents.....
Is this even a serious post?

The first picture reminds me of a line from a movie spoken by Star Trek's Kirk.

"I need my pain"

Pain makes you tough. If you ever need to fight for self-defense. That pain will give you strength to fight.

Just because you can experience pain doesn't mean you can't experience other more pleasurable feelings.

Pain is part of the human existence. And it is why we should seek out pleasurable experiences to alleviate painful experiences and thoughts.

If dragons can survive five years in the dark anyone can find reasons to live.

Do you know... ...how few vampires... ...have the stamina for immortality?

"

And the part I don't get about this is why someone who disobeyed a direct order to kill women and children would kill themselves.

There is honor and pride in that.

reply to post by johncarter


If your going to kill yourself anyway, why not attempt to go against your orders and potentially start a mutiny if necessary to do so, worse comes to worse you die in the attempt or face jail time, which a life in prison at least might be better then the apparent mental anguish he went through.

Why not throw your life away in a more dignfied, justified way?

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by johncarter

 

If your going to kill yourself anyway, why not attempt to go against your orders and potentially start a mutiny if necessary to do so, worse comes to worse you die in the attempt or face jail time, which a life in prison at least might be better then the apparent mental anguish he went through.

Why not throw your life away in a more dignfied, justified way?

This is the part I don't get. Why would he be in mental anguish if he disobeyed and order to kill women and children, non-combatants.

I saw a nutcase in Glenville WV while I was attending college and he indicated what crime against God he committed to deserve his punishment.

A girl delivered a bomb or something like that while he was in Vietnam and he killed her with a grenade. She didn't know what she was doing.

Killing children during combat with premeditation will result in serious mental hell that will last a lifetime.

Originally posted by johncarter
"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing. " Dwight D Eisenhower

One of the best presidents we ever had.

reply to post by johncarter
The gov't glorifies and almost deifies the military as a noble cause and superlative career choice. When you are young , invulnerable, and, in the case of men, running on testosterone you are gullible and easily manipulated. When I was 20 and in University I was a communist until I got a job and learned to hate taxes. The military has a similar allure for a person who is young naive and gullible.
The recruiter does not expose young men to the words of Dr. Kissinger “Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy". Instead they listen to the rhetoric of privileged politicians who glorify soldiers as the most brave and honorable members of humanity. You are fed the lie that you are fighting to bring democracy to others and to keep America free. Unfortunately most politicians have managed to avoid service in the military and most do their best to keep family members out of harm's way.
My heart goes out to young enlisted men who sacrifice their lives and pay the ultimate price for what they are deceived into believing is a noble cause. They do not see themselves a pawns used to enrich bankers, the Military Industrial Complex, corporations seeking coveted resources in an invaded territory. The true ugliness of war is reserved for after the enlistment and training. If you are smart enough you quickly learn that you are expanding the empire and not liberating oppressed societies.
It is then that you realize that you have been lied to. Instead of telling you that you are a human guinea pig they inject you with a cocktail of vaccinations to protect you. The expose you to D/U munitions and tell you they are safe to handle. On your return you are advised not to have children. You find out that when you return there is no support network to help rehabilitate you; no organization to restore your mental health and help re-integrate you back to a society that has never been exposed to the horrors that you faced in combat. You find that the politicians that formerly glorified and eulogized you, now consider you to be a domestic terror threat. If you are unfortunate enough to have an undiagnosed medical condition shared by many other returning soldiers you will be stonewalled and denied proper treatment. If you are unfortunate enough to die in combat your wife will be asked to sign this form which release retirement benefits to a the insurance company.
Still few people realize that the Viet Nam war, where 57,000 brave men died was more about tying up the drug trade in the Golden Triangle for the globalists than stopping the expansion of communism. Iraq was for oil and Afghanistan was for rare minerals, energy and drugs. What about liberating people and preservation of freedom?
Politicans, the military and corporations are the snake oil salesman and carnival barkers that lie and deceive and lure honorable young men with deceptive slogans for a dishonorable cause. Perhaps young people are waking up. They are no longer frowned upon for not serving a country owned and operated by a Criminal Cabal full of wonderful patriots like Dr. Kissinger. Maybe this is why the largest recruiting center is in Mexico City.

reply to post by silo13


Prepared to kill, sure. Prepared to carry out crimes against humanity? They don't show you that part in Hollywood.

reply to post by silo13


I agree.
War always has innocent casualties, if you think you can go to war without the chance of having to murder a mother and her kids, you are not fit we for war.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by johncarter
That being said? Wake up. There’s no draft. What was going on in this guys head? ’Joining up’ for military service yet not being prepared to kill?

I think that you are absolutely wrong with this particular statement. At first I thought you were assuming this man was describing having to simply kill enemy combatants. But from what the letter said, he was made to participate in war crimes, acts that are not legal for the military to do. Such actions, that go against a moral person's direct being, can definitely cause psychological problems that end up consuming an individual. Therefore it is NOT a given that everyone who commits suicide does so for a variety of reasons. It can be, but it does not have to be. Although most of the time it likely is multiple things, and not a single thing.

Anyway, I figured out further into your post that you understood that the guy was describing unwilling participation in war crimes, and you basically said that anyone who joins the military should be prepared to commit war crimes. You implied this, more than directly stating it, by saying that individuals should look to previous wars for information, and that these historical conflicts are proof enough that war crimes are still happening. I cannot believe someone would say that anyone joining the military should KNOW that war crimes are going to have to be committed. That is crazy.

Anyone who is a member of ATS should realize that the majority of individuals in America are not awake to the truth of what goes on, and considering that most war crimes in past conflicts are unproven, how can an average 18 year old American be expected to know they will have to participate in acts that are against their morals and ideals? I am not saying these things do not happen, as obviously they do, but I would not assume that someone should know this, because it is not common knowledge. The very nature of the act means that most of those who participated in it are not going to talk about it, for fear of getting into trouble. So while there are rumblings of immoral actions overseas in conflicts, there are very few proven cases. And it should be noted that humiliating citizenry and enemy combatants over there is not the same thing as having to kill innocent people. We all have heard of the cases where soldiers "mistreated" foreigners in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I have a feeling that this man is describing something far more sinister.