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posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne




there are tonnes of photos and video showing this phenomena and tonnes of
direct eyewitnesses worldwide. is that what you consider no evidence?


There are tonnes of pictures of contrails and because someone says they are pictures of spraying, you believe it. Can you explain how you come to the conclusion that those descriptions are correct?


a clandestine operation of this scale needs must be closely guarded and
denied at all costs.



of what scale? What numbers do you have?




posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by waynos

Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne




there are tonnes of photos and video showing this phenomena and tonnes of
direct eyewitnesses worldwide. is that what you consider no evidence?


There are tonnes of pictures of contrails and because someone says they are pictures of spraying, you believe it. Can you explain how you come to the conclusion that those descriptions are correct?


a clandestine operation of this scale needs must be closely guarded and
denied at all costs.



of what scale? What numbers do you have?


waynos,

a few weeks ago i asked the local water engineer why he was slowly poisoning my child
with the flouride he puts into the water.
he had the balls to tell me that he knew he was poisoning my child with 0.3mg to 0.7mg
of flouride per litre of water but that he had to put it in the water because it was the
law and the government told him he had to!

this is how it goes and has gone. and this is how bad it has become.
we have been overtaken by nefarious forces.
conspiracies of this kind are all too real and too numerous to mention, but chemtrailing is
one such and is most certainly a reality.
outside of anything else, all i have to do is look up and observe. i have been looking up and
observing for a number of years now and nothing anyone can say/write/show me will convince
me to doubt my conclusions. i trust myself and my being.

i don't know the real reason behind the spraying. i hope with all my heart it
is for benign purposes and that all here instructed to deny the phenomena are
doing so for the greater good, but if this programme is any way akin to the water
flouridation programme, as, to my mind, would seem could very well be the case
(vitimanD levels are at dangerously low levels and this can be directly connected
to some of the artificial conditions created (and blocking vital sunlight) by whatever
leaves these planes), then i pity you and all who would do harm or knowingly assent
to harm being done to their fellow human beings.
(governments have admitted to the nefarious spraying of populations in the past.
how do you think they managed to both do that and get away with it?).

i will not argue as to the absolute reality of a deliberate and ongoing spraying
programme on a massive scale (and most certainly over the town where i live and nearby cities),
as nothing is to be gained.

i tell my son never to hate and to try not to even use the word hate.
by hating, i tell him, you hurt yourself more than you could ever hurt others.
i think he understands. i am glad.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 08:44 PM
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i seem to be very popular here, what with all the replies in my inbox to
what are otherwise non-comments really on my part.

it is a case of 'the ladies doth protest too much' i very much fear(eth)!

i don't like to be popular. i prefer to be sure, to be sure.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne
a few weeks ago i asked the local water engineer why he was slowly poisoning my child
with the flouride he puts into the water.
he had the balls to tell me that he knew he was poisoning my child with 0.3mg to 0.7mg
of flouride per litre of water but that he had to put it in the water because it was the
law and the government told him he had to!


sounds like self defence on his part to me - you asked a loaded question and he instantly sized you up and provided eth answer you wanted to hear in order to avoid a fight


this is how it goes and has gone. and this is how bad it has become.
we have been overtaken by nefarious forces.
conspiracies of this kind are all too real and too numerous to mention, but chemtrailing is
one such and is most certainly a reality.


do you have any ACTUAL evidence to support that assertion?


outside of anything else, all i have to do is look up and observe. i have been looking up and
observing for a number of years now and nothing anyone can say/write/show me will convince
me to doubt my conclusions. i trust myself and my being.


It is your privilege to believe nonsense - however it is not your privilege to accuse others of being part of some secret conspiracy without having that nonsense challenged and refuted.

If you do not want to believe science and facts fine, if you want to live in ignorance fine - but you also then choose to accept the consequences of your actions, which are that you get to slander and libel people who choose to fight back pointing out the obvious.


i don't know the real reason behind the spraying.


You don't even know there is any spraying in the first place. You just choose to assume there is because it suits you for some reason.


vitimanD levels are at dangerously low levels and this can be directly connected
to some of the artificial conditions created (and blocking vital sunlight) by whatever
leaves these planes


gotr any actual evidence to support that?

The only references to low vitamin D I've ever seen have blamed people's insistence on covering up and not exposing themselves to normal sunlight whatever the cloud cover - eg see here


i will not argue as to the absolute reality of a deliberate and ongoing spraying
programme on a massive scale (and most certainly over the town where i live and nearby cities),
as nothing is to be gained.


I think that showing that such a programme ACTUALLY DOES EXIST would be a massive gain - it would stop all the debunking for example, it would get the public "on side" and aware" instead of laughing at just another stupid conspiracy theory.

The fact that you cannot see any gain in providing good evidence makes you look even moer ignorant than just believing in the first place.

edit on 25-6-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


I think that showing that such a programme ACTUALLY DOES EXIST would be a massive gain - it would stop all the debunking for example, it would get the public "on side" and aware" instead of laughing at just another stupid conspiracy theory.

The fact that you cannot see any gain in providing good evidence makes you look even moer ignorant than just believing in the first place.



i am not going to respond to the rest. i have made my position clear.

did you ever hear of the italian forensic scientists who set out to prove that the whole
'paul mccartney was replaced by a look-a-like in 1966' controversy was a bunch of
nonsense, only to find to their shock and horror that he was indeed replaced and that
the two men (pre and post 1966) had fundamentally different facial features and proportions?

i am sure you will come up with a conspiracy for that one!
most unlike you, i'm sure.

why are you so angry? why bother? what's in it for you?
why don't you try considering the possibility for conspiracy here instead of
constantly ragging on posters who do seriously?

...unless.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


Didn't you hear they all avoid taking the vaccines and fluoride that are the 2nd and 3rd parts of the "weapon"?


edit on 24-6-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)


One question for you Aloysius...What brought you to a conspiracy site since you mock conspiracy theorists?



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


Didn't you hear they all avoid taking the vaccines and fluoride that are the 2nd and 3rd parts of the "weapon"?


edit on 24-6-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)


One question for you Aloysius...What brought you to a conspiracy site since you mock conspiracy theorists?



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 09:42 PM
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posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by TopsyTurvyOne


did you ever hear of the italian forensic scientists who set out to prove that the whole
'paul mccartney was replaced by a look-a-like in 1966' controversy was a bunch of
nonsense, only to find to their shock and horror that he was indeed replaced and that
the two men (pre and post 1966) had fundamentally different facial features and proportions?

i am sure you will come up with a conspiracy for that one!


No - I hadn't heard of that one - but lots of other people have -

www.debunkingskeptics.com...
www.davidicke.com...

and of course this silly conspiracy proves that chemtrails exist......



why are you so angry? why bother? what's in it for you?


www.abovetopsecret.com...


why don't you try considering the possibility for conspiracy here instead of
constantly ragging on posters who do seriously?

...unless.


Unless of course I took it seriously long enough to evaluate the ACTUAL evidence, and am now treating it as the ACTTUAL evidence for it deserves.

edit on 25-6-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Rezlooper
 


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Fair enough...I'm not arguing for or against chemtrails, I'm only wondering why you bring in vaccines and flouride into this debate as if to mock all conspiracy theorists. Was there a particular conspiracy theory that brought you to this site or some other reason? Is there any conspiracy theory you believe in or are you a complete 100% skeptic like so many others here. The reason I ask is that there are so many on this site that put a whole lot of effort into derailing a lot of these threads that bring up these outer fringe subjects, such as chemtrails, flouride, vaccines, global warming, unidentified flying objects, etc and with the viciousness of the attacks (as evidenced in this thread) I wonder if there is another agenda...oops, that would be another whacked out conspiracy theory...my bad!

Either way...IMO this is what is bringing this site down the tubes. Why should any conspiracy theorist bring up a debatable subject only to be attacked and ridiculed this way. This is why you skeptics claim to have more on your side on ATS...because you have the biggest mouths and the rest are simply tired of arguing with you.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Rezlooper

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Rezlooper
 


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Fair enough...I'm not arguing for or against chemtrails, I'm only wondering why you bring in vaccines and flouride into this debate as if to mock all conspiracy theorists.


Nope - they have been linked together by the theorists themselves - eg
educate-yourself.org...


Radio talk show host Jeff Rense has offered the idea that these sprayed pathogens might be part of a Binary weapon system. In other words, a second substance might be required (aerial spraying or substances added to the water supply for example) to bring out the virulent phase of the pathogen, but of course this is only speculation. Rick Malinowski's long and detailed article also suggest the notion of a 2 or 3 part piggy back element to the chemtrail sprayings.


or www.disclose.tv...

Now I'm just putting this forward as a theory...... Its about Chemtrails and the little thought of effects of them being used as a binary chemical/biological weapon.


or here - stopsprayingcalifornia.com...


Nitrogen Trifluoride and Chemtrails



Was there a particular conspiracy theory that brought you to this site or some other reason?


Supposedly you read the link I posted above - if so you have the answer. If not then why not?


Is there any conspiracy theory you believe in or are you a complete 100% skeptic like so many others here.


AFAIK no-one on here is "100% skeptic" - debunkers are interested in EVIDENCE - if you have none then we will say so and point it out.

There are lots of conspiracies for which there is ample clear evidence, or even simply sensible reasons to expect them to exist - eg it was safe to bet that security agencies were "spying" on the 'net before Edwards dropped his bombshell - the existence of ECHELON was well documented and it would have been silly to presume that the spying had not moved with technology.


The reason I ask is that there are so many on this site that put a whole lot of effort into derailing a lot of these threads


Pointing out false evidence is not derailing a thread - it is denying ignorance, which is the motto of this site.


Either way...IMO this is what is bringing this site down the tubes. Why should any conspiracy theorist bring up a debatable subject only to be attacked and ridiculed this way. This is why you skeptics claim to have more on your side on ATS...because you have the biggest mouths and the rest are simply tired of arguing with you.


rubbish - what brings this site "down" is claims that something "must be true" with no evidence whatsoever, and anyone who dares to point out that het emperor has no clothes gets labeled a shill, disinfo agent, etc.

The truth is not a matter of opinion - but we are constantly being bombarded with opinion, unsupported allegations and suppositions, false and misleading evidence, and told that we cannot question any of it because .....well because what?

I ask you - what is het agenda of people who say that evidence should not be examined for its veracity?

What is your agenda for defending such a position?

edit on 25-6-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by TopsyTurvyOne
 


Thank you for your reply, but while it explained your position, it didn't really answer the question I asked. If I am going to believe in chemtrails I am going to need a reason that is about chemtrails, not about fluoride in water or Paul McCartney.

Showing that bad juju happens in the world is not required, there are many many bad and evil things in the world, but what leads you to believe specifically in chemtrails?

I ask this from the perspective of someone who has been familiar with persistent spreading contrails for over forty years and who as an aviation geek observed first hand the increase in contrails caused by the switch to HBPR engines throughout the commercial sector since the 1980's.

Also as someone someone who is able to pretty much know when trails will persist or not from the weather forecast, and can look at approaching planes on the FR24 app and to predict thin trail, thick trail or no trail before they are physically visible in the sky (which i recently did to show a believer freind how easy it is) from the aircraft type and altitude displayed, I am still at a loss as to how believers can look at trails and declare them chemtrails. What is it about them?

Incidentally my believer friend cannot explain it at all, only that they are blocking the sun and they don't like it.
edit on 26-6-2013 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 04:18 AM
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reply to post by Rezlooper
 


Do you see a conspiracy site like this as a site where evidence can be examined and rubbish filtered out in a quest for a greater truth, or a site where people can write anything at all they like and everyone else has to just nod in agreement?

It is the former for me.

People must have the freedom to propose any ideas they wish, and they rightfully have that here. But when they write that those beliefs are based upon misconceptions and bad information it is surely the duty of any member that is able to point this out?

It may be that the idea is totally wrong, or maybe there is truth in there but they are looking in the wrong direction for it. What is the benefit to the site from leaving falsehoods unchallenged?



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by TopsyTurvyOne
 


No, you brought unsupported evidence to a debate.
And since this is an open forum, people replied.



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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derp-age!
edit on 26-6-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by TopsyTurvyOne
 


Same can be said for chemtrail proponents, even members who have been previously banned(due to their insulting and abusive comments) and who return with new accounts, isn't that right Outonalimb?



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Rezlooper
 


Do you see a conspiracy site like this as a site where evidence can be examined and rubbish filtered out in a quest for a greater truth, or a site where people can write anything at all they like and everyone else has to just nod in agreement?

It is the former for me.

People must have the freedom to propose any ideas they wish, and they rightfully have that here. But when they write that those beliefs are based upon misconceptions and bad information it is surely the duty of any member that is able to point this out?

It may be that the idea is totally wrong, or maybe there is truth in there but they are looking in the wrong direction for it. What is the benefit to the site from leaving falsehoods unchallenged?


Absolutely correct. The debate is great and much needed, but its the same few who show up quickly once a thread is started and use the same persistence to derail it. That's all I'm questioning. I'm still a rookie, a member here for less than a year, but I've definitely learned the pattern that those few use. It's funny how as soon as you see a thread started, you can sit back and wait for them to show up and attack it as nonsense, rubbish and assault the author as well for not doing his research, being lazy and that he/she should basically...shut up and know your place in the world...and that place is to not question the topic, but accept what they say as the absolute. That's it...nothing to see here, now go home!



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Rezlooper
 


Most of the skeptics here don't tell the believers to shut up and know their place in the world (it's usually the other way around). We simply ask them to give us good solid evidence that proves their beliefs. Pictures of planes that we've worked on, or that are proven to be lies, and misinformation aren't evidence. So according to some we should just sit back and ignore what's being posted when we know it's wrong, correct?



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I've dealt with it on my methane threads (which remains a very real and serious threat by the way). All the sites linked with evidence, all the facts, all the realities of what's happening are just hogwash. No matter how much is presented, to those who refuse to believe, it's all hogwash!



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by Rezlooper
 


Because quantity of evidence does not equal quality of evidence.

More flags, stars, likes, comments, subs.....all just show a lot of people can be wrong.





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