Priests Urge Nancy Pelosi to Condemn Abortion or Leave the Catholic Church

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

What do you think Jesus would have said if the woman was suffering from lupus and kidney failure, and her life was at risk AND she was carrying an anencephalic fetus, with a brain stem but no brain?

www.cbsnews.com...

Why, I do believe he would have laid hands upon her, blessed her and healed her of her DISEASE. A baby is not a disease, and that is the point. This thread was about Nancy Pelosi claiming to be Catholic and making outrageous statements about abortion somehow being linked to her sacred faith? I have long said, if you don't like a congregations teachings then don't join it. Years ago, I had a friend who complained because her church forbid it's members from watching television, dancing, playing musical instruments and I simply said, "Don't join that church". They have a right to their beliefs and no one is forcing you to go there.

The Catholic church should just excommunicate her and be done with it.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Hey, if the Catholic Church was just a club that you could just quite, I'd agree with you. But that's not what the church thinks about itself. The Catholic Church teaches and therefore Catholics think that the church is God's only church and NO ONE can get to heaven without them. The Pope is the VICOR OF CHRIST. For people who believe that, ex-communication isn't just a statement of disagreement, it's a condemnation to HELL!

In the meantime, in AIDS ridden Africa, the Pope is still teaching the use of condoms is a grave and mortal sin.

I'm not Catholic, but the hubris of their actions, trying to threaten, bribe and blackmail Ms Pelosi to change her stance on women's health issues, contraception, sexual education and safe, affordable, access to abortion services makes me sick.

There is a difference between faith and doctrine. The church doesn't place as much emphasis on faith as it does on it's doctrine, and requiring members to kow towing to it's leadership and doctrine.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Dear UnifiedSerenity,

I have to agree with you. Of course, an abortion thread is always good fun, but that's not the topic. I can only conclude that since we've gone off to a new topic that means the old one is finished.

I assume that means everyone is agreed that the Church has every right to determine who it's members are. Also, that Pelosi is making public speeches attacking the Church's belief. Therefore, the Church is certainly within it's rights to declare her a non-member.

Now that that's settled, I can decide whether to jump into yet another abortion thread.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by Plugin
Are there any words about abortion in the bible? They didn't invented it yet back then.

There are 10 rules and basicly 1 golden rule which covers all rules ''treat others the way you want to be treated''.

I can't remember; ''you shall not abort a pregnancy''.

How about "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Actually that translates as murder in Hebrew, which killing an unborn child constitutes. We're not under the 10 commandments. We have the royal law which = "treat others the way you want them to treat you".

So, I wouldn't have wanted someone to abort me, so I won't do it to someone else. It's called Respect.

Some people could excercise some morals and just not have sex or, sterilize themselves if they don't understand what condoms are for.

People who want to have sex and then force an unborn child to pay for their sins, should be sterilized immediately.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by windword

 

I'm sorry, I have no idea what your point is in that response.

My point is, Jesus never indicated that the unborn were innocent. The belief of the disciples was that they were not, and Jesus didn't correct them.

No, that is completely invalid -- the Apostles were talking about whether someone would eventually sin, and therefore be guilty (see Psalm 51, 139) and that has nothing to do with a fetus in the womb.

A child is not deemed to be without sin until it is baptist actually.

reply to post by charles1952



The church in my opinion has every right to expel Pelosi for this. It is afterall their church and if Pelosi pretends to be a part of it but not follow it especially in her public position then why would they need to accept her in it?

Basically it is Pelosi's hypocrasy that is once again not tolerated its just that this time it is her own church. Is anyone really surprised or offended by their ultimatum?

reply to post by Shadowphile

It is afterall their church

Their church?! I thought it was God's church.

Originally posted by Plugin
Are there any words about abortion in the bible? They didn't invented it yet back then.

There are 10 rules and basicly 1 golden rule which covers all rules ''treat others the way you want to be treated''.

I can't remember; ''you shall not abort a pregnancy''.

edit on 24-6-2013 by Plugin because: (no reason given)

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.


Can you see how this would be at odds with the "viable life" argument?

reply to post by windword

Dear windword,

Would you be surprised if I said I think your position is close to correct, but needs some adjusting?

Hey, if the Catholic Church was just a club that you could just quite, I'd agree with you. But that's not what the church thinks about itself. The Catholic Church teaches and therefore Catholics think that the church is God's only church and NO ONE can get to heaven without them.

That's not quite true. You can check out an online Catechism and see for yourself. The Church teaches that even people who have never heard of Jesus, or people of a different religion, can go to Heaven

The Pope is the VICOR OF CHRIST. For people who believe that, ex-communication isn't just a statement of disagreement, it's a condemnation to HELL!

But the point is that Pelosi doesn't believe the Church teachings, otherwise there'd be no discussion. Since she doesn't accept the Church's position on Abortion, do you really think she accepts the position that she's going to Hell because of it?

You can't say that she is a believing Catholic and she's frightened by what Rome may do, and that she is not a believing Catholic.

I'm not Catholic, but the hubris of their actions, trying to threaten, bribe and blackmail Ms Pelosi to change her stance on women's health issues, contraception, sexual education and safe, affordable, access to abortion services makes me sick.

Presto! You're healed. The Church is not demanding that she change her position. Even the title of this thread tells you that. They're saying, fine, keep your positions, but stop claiming to be a faithful, believing Catholic. It's her choice. And since she doesn't accept the Church's teachings, they have nothing to threaten her with.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by windword

Dear windword,

Their church?! I thought it was God's church.

If you believed that, you'd be a member.

Besides, you may have forgotten the authority Jesus gave Peter.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by charles1952

 

Hi Charles,

I know that we disagree on this topic. However, Ms. Pelosi isn't hired by the Catholic Church to represent their doctrine, she's hired by her constituents to represent their interests and to uphold the law as it applies to legislation. Right now the Supreme Court has deemed abortion is legal and is a private decision between a woman and her doctor, and most of her constituents want to keep that way.

Is the Catholic Church prepared to "discipline" all their members who have had abortions or who use birth control? Or are they just after the outspoken Catholics who openly advocate birth control and want to keep abortion affordable, accessible and safe?

edit on 24-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

When a judge is personally involved in a trial, it is appropriate for him or her to recuse themself from the case.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When is the Catholic Church going to give the boot to the over half of Catholic women who not only believe in birth control but use it regularly? I'm actually pretty sick of the high-and-mighty attitude of the Catholic Church. And this is ONE PRIEST speaking for a pro-life group... It's none of their business what Pelosi thinks about abortion.

I think the church needs to be put in ITS place...

Is anyone forcing anyone to be a member of the Catholic Church? Why should an outsider (and presumably, you are an outsider) try and force their will on an organizational doctrine that they disagree with?

that sounds a little socialist ...

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Hey, if the Catholic Church was just a club that you could just quite, I'd agree with you. But that's not what the church thinks about itself. The Catholic Church teaches and therefore Catholics think that the church is God's only church and NO ONE can get to heaven without them. The Pope is the VICOR OF CHRIST. For people who believe that, ex-communication isn't just a statement of disagreement, it's a condemnation to HELL!

In the meantime, in AIDS ridden Africa, the Pope is still teaching the use of condoms is a grave and mortal sin.

I'm not Catholic, but the hubris of their actions, trying to threaten, bribe and blackmail Ms Pelosi to change her stance on women's health issues, contraception, sexual education and safe, affordable, access to abortion services makes me sick.

There is a difference between faith and doctrine. The church doesn't place as much emphasis on faith as it does on it's doctrine, and requiring members to kow towing to it's leadership and doctrine.

edit on 26-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

I was raised Catholic so stop preaching to me about Catholicism. Your point proves my point. Nancy Pelosi has a faith crisis. If she is so dead set against condemning abortion then she is not in faith with the Catholic church and should leave or THEY should excommunicate her. They do it all the time to divorced people who re-marry and have the guts not to get an annulment and say their 15 yr marriage was not a marriage in some "loop hole" idea that that makes remarrying ok. Like I said, if you don't like the church, don't agree with it, then leave it and deal with your eternal soul as you currently are by "living in sin" and such from the Catholic teachings.

Nancy is not going to change the church and she is out of fellowship with it's teachings so if she is really a believer in their doctrines and thinks all non Catholics are going to hell then she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Again, Excommunicate her... simple.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer

You know, you raise a good point. It's always instructive to see what happens when someone disagrees with something. Socialists seem to be one group that demands the government destroy those with differing opinions, rather than shrugging it off as a tolerable difference. If the government can't, then they try to.

Just as a neutral example, mention the word "Monsanto" and see what happens. There will be some who say, "Well, what about Monsanto?" There will be others who say "Monsanto is evil and dangerous and needs to be stomped out. They're vile and reprehensible." Surprisingly, that comes out before either group knows what it is that you're talking about.

I go the "vile and reprehensible" route occasionally, but I really try to avoid it because it shuts off part of my brain, and I go into a conditioned reflex.

By the way, in case I wasn't obvious, it's the Church's club, they get to write the rules.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by Plugin
Are there any words about abortion in the bible? They didn't invented it yet back then.

There are 10 rules and basicly 1 golden rule which covers all rules ''treat others the way you want to be treated''.

I can't remember; ''you shall not abort a pregnancy''.

How about "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Actually that translates as murder in Hebrew, which killing an unborn child constitutes. We're not under the 10 commandments. We have the royal law which = "treat others the way you want them to treat you".

So, I wouldn't have wanted someone to abort me, so I won't do it to someone else. It's called Respect.

Some people could excercise some morals and just not have sex or, sterilize themselves if they don't understand what condoms are for.

People who want to have sex and then force an unborn child to pay for their sins, should be sterilized immediately.

edit on 26-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Ah, a Pauline Christian believing we are not under the "Law". This is one of my favorite topics and maybe best for another thread. The "Law" as you say is the commandments of God put on stone tablets. That was called the first covenant. Yeshua / Jesus instituted a NEW Covenant not of the law written on stone tablets, but upon your heart. He also said, "Not one jot nor tittle shall pass from the law until all things are fulfilled" and that my friend is after the Millenium which is after the tribulation of Antichrist. So, the law is very much in effect I'm afraid despite the errant teachings of the imposter self proclaimed apostle Paul who was rejected in Asia as he stated, and as God commends them in Ephesus for rejecting him when we read:

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Gee, how many times did Paul declare he was not a liar?

Hmm, maybe Californias 12th district needs a male christian latino to represent the minority or possibly the majority of voters in California. Or do they hate latinos there? Hmm?

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

I was raised Catholic so stop preaching to me about Catholicism. Your point proves my point. Nancy Pelosi has a faith crisis. If she is so dead set against condemning abortion then she is not in faith with the Catholic church and should leave or THEY should excommunicate her. They do it all the time to divorced people who re-marry and have the guts not to get an annulment and say their 15 yr marriage was not a marriage in some "loop hole" idea that that makes remarrying ok.

Like I said, if you don't like the church, don't agree with it, then leave it and deal with your eternal soul as you currently are by "living in sin" and such from the Catholic teachings. Nancy is not going to change the church and she is out of fellowship with it's teachings so if she is really a believer in their doctrines and thinks all non Catholics are going to hell then she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Again, Excommunicate her... simple.

Apparently, you're the one having a crisis in faith. You think that doctrine, man's opinion, is more important than the teaching of Jesus.

"The Church" isn't a club. It isn't a body of men, it's the body of Christ. Only Christ decides who is and who is not a member of HIS CHURCH. That is the faith.

You need to pull the log out of your eye before you judge the speck in another's eye. should put down those stones you're throwing around and look around at your own life. I'd bet you anything that you also live "in sin."

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by charles1952

 

Hi Charles,

I know that we disagree on this topic. However, Ms. Pelosi isn't hired by the Catholic Church to represent their doctrine, she's hired by her constituents to represent their interests and to uphold the law as it applies to legislation. Right now the Supreme Court has deemed abortion is legal and is a private decision between a woman and her doctor, and most of her constituents want to keep that way.

Is the Catholic Church prepared to "discipline" all their members who have had abortions or who use birth control? Or are they just after the outspoken Catholics who openly advocate birth control and want to keep abortion affordable, accessible and safe?

edit on 24-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Pelosi is causing "scandal", public "scandal" so is every Catholic in the news as she is, she should be
excommunicated.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

I was raised Catholic so stop preaching to me about Catholicism. Your point proves my point. Nancy Pelosi has a faith crisis. If she is so dead set against condemning abortion then she is not in faith with the Catholic church and should leave or THEY should excommunicate her. They do it all the time to divorced people who re-marry and have the guts not to get an annulment and say their 15 yr marriage was not a marriage in some "loop hole" idea that that makes remarrying ok.

Like I said, if you don't like the church, don't agree with it, then leave it and deal with your eternal soul as you currently are by "living in sin" and such from the Catholic teachings. Nancy is not going to change the church and she is out of fellowship with it's teachings so if she is really a believer in their doctrines and thinks all non Catholics are going to hell then she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Again, Excommunicate her... simple.

Apparently, you're the one having a crisis in faith. You think that doctrine, man's opinion, is more important than the teaching of Jesus.

"The Church" isn't a club. It isn't a body of men, it's the body of Christ. Only Christ decides who is and who is not a member of HIS CHURCH. That is the faith.

You need to pull the log out of your eye before you judge the speck in another's eye. should put down those stones you're throwing around and look around at your own life. I'd bet you anything that you also live "in sin."

edit on 26-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Jesus established ONE Church because there is one faith, Roman Catholicism (Eph 4:5). You throw "stones" every single day at the faith, what are you talking about windword?

You use to be Catholic, I bet. Come home, the Remnant is Roman Catholilc.

Originally posted by windword


"The Church" isn't a club. It isn't a body of men, it's the body of Christ. Only Christ decides who is and who is not a member of HIS CHURCH. That is the faith.

The problem is NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that the Catholic Church, is Christs Church.

My problem with Pelosi, the Catholic Church, and man in General is they are ALL hypocrites.

Having faith is the hardest thing to have, if you are putting mans version of what they believe is right.

Personally, I believe abortion is a Woman's choice, and with that a Woman will have to deal with the consequences of having them. Its a very Gender biased decision though,because it takes two to conceive. Not very loving or righteous in the eyes of many religions. I wonder if Christ would agree with Abortion? I know Christ was known to heal Lepers, and Pardon Murderers............


Just my opinion.......Hope no one gets angry with it.