The Case of the Missing Ancestor

The Case of the Missing Ancestor

It's amazing that from a small fragment of bone we can discover a whole new species of human.

And that brings up the whole question.
How many different species of human where there?
Plus how did those different humans interact. In the article it would seem that there's a big mix of fossils in the cave.
How did we all get along and interbreed? Seeing as how there is Denisovan DNA in modern Melanesians I'm assuming we did. So Denisovans were compatible enough to our ancestors.
Many questions are raised that we will never find out.

In the Altay Mountains of southern Siberia, some 200 miles from where Russia touches Mongolia, China, and Kazakhstan, nestled under a rock face about 30 yards above a little river called the Anuy, there is a cave called Denisova. It has long attracted visitors. The name comes from that of a hermit, Denis, who is said to have lived there in the 18th century. Long before that, Neolithic and later Turkic pastoralists took shelter in the cave, gathering their herds around them to ride out the Siberian winters. Thanks to them, the archaeologists who work in Denisova today, surrounded by walls spattered with recent graffiti, had to dig through deep layers of goat dung to get to the deposits that interested them. But the cave’s main chamber has a high, arched ceiling with a hole near the top that directs shimmering shafts of sunlight into the interior, so that the space feels holy, like a church.

In the back of the cave is a small side chamber, and it was there that a young Russian archaeologist named Alexander Tsybankov was digging one day in July 2008, in deposits believed to be 30,000 to 50,000 years old, when he came upon a tiny piece of bone. It was hardly promising: a rough nubbin about the size and shape of a pebble you might shake out of your shoe. Later, after news of the place had spread, a paleoanthropologist I met at Denisova described the bone to me as the “most unspectacular fossil I’ve ever seen. It’s practically depressing.” Still, it was a bone. Tsybankov bagged it and put it in his pocket to show a paleontologist back at camp.

I'm a different species of human. At least that is what others say about me

How many species haven't they found yet. Humanoids may have gone back a lot farther and may have actually evolved from some kind of dinosaur creature for all we know.

News like this isn't going to be taken to seriously by mainstream science because if in fact these humanoids did interbreed (which is almost certain they did) then that could undoubtedly prove that race is a biological concept and not a social one. And we all know that is not PC and taboo to discuss, even intellectually.

reply to post by kimish


There is no if.
They did interbreed.
There's proof in our DNA.

Melanesians DNA is 6% Denisovian.

reply to post by grey580


Thank you, I didn't want to say it myself.

I believe that we've only begun to scratch the surface on our ancestral tree. Only about %1-10 percent of fossils are found and from what science has now is somewhat large. Imagine if %75 percent of fossils from our ancient lineage had been found. I think we'd be astounded, and as Ricky said, we'd find out that we've been around a lot longer than most think.

reply to post by kimish

News like this isn't going to be taken to seriously by mainstream science...

Huh? The Human Genome Project only published a complete human genome about ten years ago. The Neanderthal Genome Project just published results in 2010; within a year, articles like this one were being published in mainstream journals. The Denisovan genome was just published last year in Science. How can you say that the accepted fact that we interbred with H. neanderthalensis and Denisovans "isn't going to be taken to seriously by mainstream science" when it has been immediately accepted by mainstream science because the evidence is unequivocal?

reply to post by iterationzero


Well, because the more we find out about it the more likelihood the R word will be thrown around.

One argument is that we are all one race because the 'races' produce viable offspring and different 'species' of animals can't, like mules. Well, Denisovans and H. Neanderthal did interbreed with H. Sapiens sapiens which means that even though we are not all the same, we still are able to produce offspring that can also reproduce. This means that there are races of humans and race is a biological concept, not a social concept.

See, it's taboo to say race is a biological concept. But with the evidence provided that H.D and H.N did interbreed with H.S, to me, it proves that there are races of humans, or a more non pc way to put it, specie or subspecies of Homo Sapiens. See, all of that can easily be construed as racist and that was my point.

I hope I was clear enough, It's hard for me to project my thoughts into words.

reply to post by kimish

It's both a biological construct and a social construct, but even calling it just those two things is oversimplifying. "Race" has been used to denote groups by a large number of different categories -- genetic, religion, language, ethnic, etc. -- at different times in the past. In taxonomy, there's no such thing as race when it comes to humans. We're all the same subspecies: Homo sapiens sapiens. Which is why "race" is falling out of favor as a word used to describe groups of people.

Originally posted by kimish
News like this isn't going to be taken to seriously by mainstream science because if in fact these humanoids did interbreed (which is almost certain they did) then that could undoubtedly prove that race is a biological concept and not a social one. And we all know that is not PC and taboo to discuss, even intellectually.

You clearly have not taken any biology courses in college.

Race is a biological concept, not a social one. That is why the only other "race" today would be black people. This is based on biological differences. Not every culture is it's own race from a scientific perspective.

We already know these people interbred, it's a scientific fact. Please don't post on topics you have no clue about.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by kimish
News like this isn't going to be taken to seriously by mainstream science because if in fact these humanoids did interbreed (which is almost certain they did) then that could undoubtedly prove that race is a biological concept and not a social one. And we all know that is not PC and taboo to discuss, even intellectually.

You clearly have not taken any biology courses in college.

Race is a biological concept, not a social one. That is why the only other "race" today would be black people. This is based on biological differences. Not every culture is it's own race from a scientific perspective.

We already know these people interbred, it's a scientific fact. Please don't post on topics you have no clue about.

You misunderstood me, (I should have put a disclaimer for sarcasm in the post that you quoted) I do believe that race is a biological concept. Mainstream science says otherwise for PC reasons, as does the general populous. One only needs to read threads on this website about to topic to see that.

Please do not tell me I have no clue about it because truth be told this is a topic that I probably know 100x more than you.

... and there are 3 (some claim 4) races of people, not 2. Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid. (the fourth being Australoid)

Darren Curnoe. University of New South Wales

anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org...

The above links will give you a better view on topic. As simple interbreeding isn't even rare, but the norm in human evolution.