3 NSA veterans speak out on whistle-blower: We told you so

Did a search and didn't find this so please don't jump down my throat if it has already been posted.

I came across this interview with 3 NSA veterans that tried to blow this whistle years ago before Snowden.

William Binney: We tried to stay for the better part of seven years inside the government trying to get the government to recognize the unconstitutional, illegal activity that they were doing and openly admit that and devise certain ways that would be constitutionally and legally acceptable to achieve the ends they were really after. And that just failed totally because no one in Congress or — we couldn't get anybody in the courts, and certainly the Department of Justice and inspector general's office didn't pay any attention to it. And all of the efforts we made just produced no change whatsoever. All it did was continue to get worse and expand.

They apparently went through the ranks with no progress being made.

Q: What did you learn from the document — the Verizon warrant issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court — that Snowden leaked?

Drake: It's an extraordinary order. I mean, it's the first time we've publicly seen an actual, secret, surveillance-court order. I don't really want to call it "foreign intelligence" (court) anymore, because I think it's just become a surveillance court, OK? And we are all foreigners now. By virtue of that order, every single phone record that Verizon has is turned over each and every day to NSA. There is no probable cause. There is no indication of any kind of counterterrorism investigation or operation. It's simply: "Give us the data." ...

They note that Snowden's leaks are just the tip of the iceberg.

Interesting interview with these three gentlemen and video also. I think it's worth the time to check out. Here is the link.

That's nice.

Its been what, 2 weeks now? And all we got are more stories published?

Yeah. Nothings gonna happen from this. It never does.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


that's the spirit!

This really is nothing compared to what really goes on. I would expect Snowboy has A LOT of stuff in reserve that will be coming out. If he only has SIGINT, well he only has a piece of the puzzle. I wouldn't want to ruin my life releasing this kind of stuff, and they count on that. If he isn't brought back to the US, I would think they will reach out and touch him to shut down as much as possible.

The laws should protect those who blow the whistle on unconstitutional activities by whomever....govt, corporate. private even....
The primary document that founds the society is now proven to be meaningless at best.

Originally posted by stirling

The primary document that founds the society is now proven to be meaningless at best.

The other way to look at it is the current government is meaningless without any legitimacy to its rule.

Democracy gets its legitimacy from the people. If the people aren't actually supporting the government, it is illegitimate.

That means they have to go to military legitimacy or... well.

Our government could already be considered illegitimate by other countries after these leaks, as far as I'm concerned, seeing as our main reason for invasions are usually "human rights issues" Really... this is why you take the higher path. Losing legitimacy means you lose power.

I was hoping there would be something like this in the article.

Wiebe: Well, I don't want anyone to think that he had an alternative. No one should (think that). There is no path for intelligence-community whistle-blowers who know wrong is being done. There is none. It's a toss of the coin, and the odds are you are going to be hammered.

For those who say that Snowden should have gone through the channels, THIS is why that is a failed argument.I wouldn't trust the government to watch over my ashtray, and whistleblowers are supposed to trust them when the outcome has already been determined.

What an absolute joke our government has become.

I sure wish some whistle blowers from area 51 would leak all the UFO FILES

Originally posted by SPECULUM
I sure wish some whistle blowers from area 51 would leak all the UFO FILES

Ohh they will soon enough.
This is catching fire.
Truth is coming out.
It is the latest craze.
Everyone is doing it.

What the hell is going on???
All thise whistle-blower are JUST puting on a Show!
why dont the blow the whole thing.
and give us All the info in one go?

Its just a game.......................
we are all fools.
faulse hope.

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

that's the spirit!

The men I share my nation with are often time hardly recognizable as men. Mostly the city dwellers who have allowed their municipalities to castrate them and make them docile servants of the government. All those folks who think the rule of law exists currently, and that we should all just sell our guns back to whichever farcical tyrant is asking for them. I know they are out there, as I read them on ATS from time to time.

There are others like me. We have grown up learning the meaning of being a man. Not in the sense of "real man", but in the sense of having experienced what male humans have experienced forever. Away from the city, where you can live more free. Where you can at least connect with the human inside of you.

Thoreau understood this It was the basis of his trip that propagated his writing of Walden. Perpspective has been lost by far too many of us humans.

Until the folks in the cities are willing to make a move, us folks in the country have no hope. We just have to sit and tolerate the nonsense. And a country man's perspective is that this is all just another round of bluster and circus. Its like a dog that has fits...it will occasionally convulse and is can look quite scary. But he just sometimes does that.

whats this Dood[snowden[
waiting for

where is all the meat & potatoes...
this guy better get to spilling
before it gets to disappearing

reply to post by spoonbender


I've been impatient too, but we have to remember that there's more going on here that we cannot see.

For example, it's much more difficult to release a story and get attention when something else is happening. It's best to pick a quiet news day to ensure that your story is the biggest one worth reporting on.

If Snowden just released everything like a tsunami of news, it would become nothing more than a temporary headline, some things might be picked up, but a lot of it could be lost. By splitting this all into different stories, gradually leaked one after the other, with breaks in-between, it keeps the momentum and the pressure on.

I think they're doing it right so far. They're breaking something shocking, allowing the discussion to happen, seeing how the US government reacts to it (digging themselves a deeper hole), then releasing another shocking revelation.

Also, it's important to remember the kind of pressures and stresses the journalists and Snowden are under too. He's still trying to seek safety, and attention is on his travels. Any story released about the NSA now will have less impact while the US media can distract with the "hunt".

I think Greenwald is probably under a lot of pressure too. I can't imagine the kinds of steps a journalist would have to take to ensure his own privacy and security when working on a story like this. The NSA will be looking for him too, watching his every move, hacking his phone and his computers, probably using GCHQ to spy on him and using our police etc to monitor his movements. I can imagine that everyone working at the Guardian is being targeted by both the UK and US governments right now, and that could become a story in itself later.

Don't get me wrong here but....Even if I personally applaud what Snowden is doing, why wouldn't he just dump everything and have it propogate in the "natural" internet way ? Why hold on to stuff when you are not even sure you will live to dish out the goods ?? I'm sure Wikileaks has a backup of what Snowden has but still...Why hold on to it....Send it out in mass to the people as a good "leaker" should !!!

Nothing that comes out surprises me anymore! We are just seeing the light spilling through the cracks and when the door opens the light will blind us! Till we deny the power of those in DC we invite them to subvert our freedom of individuality!

Originally posted by Nuke2013
Don't get me wrong here but....Even if I personally applaud what Snowden is doing, why wouldn't he just dump everything and have it propogate in the "natural" internet way ? Why hold on to stuff when you are not even sure you will live to dish out the goods ?? I'm sure Wikileaks has a backup of what Snowden has but still...Why hold on to it....Send it out in mass to the people as a good "leaker" should !!!

Maybe he is hoping by holding on to the more revealing data he is insuring that he can maintain his freedom and his life! A sort of "If anything happens to me such and such will be revealed"!
Though I doubt this will work because this will most likely endanger his friends and family members after he is dead!

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
That's nice.

Its been what, 2 weeks now? And all we got are more stories published?

Yeah. Nothings gonna happen from this. It never does.

Yeah....see AT&T, Mark Klein and Room 641A in 2006.

Big uproar, a lot of stories, then nothing but crickets, back to business as usual.

Originally posted by Nuke2013
Don't get me wrong here but....Even if I personally applaud what Snowden is doing, why wouldn't he just dump everything and have it propogate in the "natural" internet way ? Why hold on to stuff when you are not even sure you will live to dish out the goods ?? I'm sure Wikileaks has a backup of what Snowden has but still...Why hold on to it....Send it out in mass to the people as a good "leaker" should !!!

Snowden himself said on the initial interview on YouTube....that he was only going to release items pertaining to the scope of the eavesdropping/bugging/hacking going on at the NSA.

The 'problem' the government has is that they do NOT know exactly what information he has in his possession.

Just remember that the government possesses technology that is decades....with an "s" ahead of what is available to the general public. .....which puts yet another slant on this scandal.

reply to post by spoonbender


He is probably waiting for America to grow some balls, or should I say cahoney's to be politically correct. He is probably wondering where is the outrage.

Even the right wing media is calling him a traitor.

We've got all these scandals going on. how many of you have actually contacted your senators or congressmen to demand some thing be done about it? I know I'm wondering where is the out rage.

If you had the information that he allegedly has wouldn't you throw some thing out there that might not get you into to much trouble? After all what has he said that we didn't already know. Is it really worth it to him to disclose the information that he has to an American public that doesn't seem to give a crap.

We have people on the left and on the right calling him a traitor. I say we are the traitors. These whistle blowers take a stand for what they believe in. Yet we cant seem to stand for them.

Originally posted by Diisenchanted
reply to post by spoonbender

 

He is probably waiting for America to grow some balls, or should I say cahoney's to be politically correct. He is probably wondering where is the outrage.

Even the right wing media is calling him a traitor.

We've got all these scandals going on. how many of you have actually contacted your senators or congressmen to demand some thing be done about it? I know I'm wondering where is the out rage.

If you had the information that he allegedly has wouldn't you throw some thing out there that might not get you into to much trouble? After all what has he said that we didn't already know. Is it really worth it to him to disclose the information that he has to an American public that doesn't seem to give a crap.

We have people on the left and on the right calling him a traitor. I say we are the traitors. These whistle blowers take a stand for what they believe in. Yet we cant seem to stand for them.

Sooo true man. People should be rioting... But part of the problem is the American citizen is carrying more debt than any other country. Your life is your career, not your career sponsoring your life.I hate what this nation has become.