BREAKING : 'Safe & Healthy': Assange reveals details of 'Snowden Op', slams US 'war on whistleb

I believe that both of these individuals will eventually be apprehended and prosecuted , money, promises and ironically secret deals will probably make it happen, two birds with one stone very shortly.

The more they keep talking whether it is real information ,secrets or not it will not matter, the higher the stakes and their odds increase of being put into the hands of the U.S.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by cartenz
reply to post by buster2010

 

Its not about what we already knew--its about a paper trail of evidence. Without collecting the appropriate evidence then we would have no way of putting these criminals in the alphabet agencies on trial.

What criminals? Have you forgotten the patriot act? They wanted this because they knew sooner or later someone would spill the beans so they passed something that made it legal. How do you make something illegal legal in Washington? Simple just say it's for national defense.

The criminals that started an un-just war after they flew planes into their largest banks--or did you miss how they got the PATRIOT Act passed?

Originally posted by phinubian
I believe that both of these individuals will eventually be apprehended and prosecuted , money, promises and ironically secret deals will probably make it happen, two birds with one stone very shortly.

The more they keep talking whether it is real information ,secrets or not it will not matter, the higher the stakes and their odds increase of being put into the hands of the U.S.

edit on 24-6-2013 by phinubian because: (no reason given)

I dont agree, I think the higher the stakes the more likely they will be granted protection. The US still has many enemies, and if Sun Tsu taught us any maxim--your enemy's enemy is your friend.

I honestly think that Russian oil interest will eventually war with the US oil interests--unfortunatly, those killed and injred in this potential conflict are not the ones who own the oil companies.

Originally posted by antoinemarionette
I think you are forgetting about the international implications of this very detailed revelation:

Even though most of the debate has been focusing on the person of Snowden and the role/reaction of the U.S. government, Europe is directly concerned by the massive U.S. snooping on European citizens. So how has Europe reacted to this crisis so far? As expressed by the Guardian, “Officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their U.S. counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic rights.”

Source

This could, and in my opinion already has, result in a very serious international incident with long term implications.

Yes, it is an act of war.

Sadly, as a British citizen I'm spied on no matter which way i look at it - so I doubt there is much chance of us taking action against Obama.

reply to post by cartenz


I will bet that the U.S. will go to any length, legal, loopholes or covert to keep these two individuals from linking up, I believe that we are about to see something happen that could end in the apprehension of Snowden in the near future, and Assange will be eventually taken down also.

The Russians are "studying the extradition request" I believe somehow if his exact whereabouts are available to apprehending agencies or covert ops, this will make him vulnerable to being intercepted either en route to Ecuador, or Cuba, again I believe this will be undertaken in a way that could overstep or take advantage in some loophole that exists if there is no extradition deal, it's way too much at stake if these two , Assange and Snowden do link, especially with the revelation that Assange was responsible for funding Snowdens flight and means to leave Hong Kong, there are many unknowns involved in how much damage the two could really do, especially if Snowden does have more unreleased materials.

Russia Studying Extradition Request

I just say wait and see on this one.

reply to post by phinubian


Point noted.

But lets say his whistle-blowing have gleaned him information that is strategically important, then his handlers would be more willing to hold him close.

I also think in a world ever-increasing in hostility to the USA, he would have no problem finding a sympathetic government to aid in his evasion of US prosecution.

... how much damage the two could really do..

Its only "damage" if you have done something wrong, to the rest of us he is a hero of the information age because he is willing to risk everything to have accountability on those waging unjust wars and profiting of the deaths of others.

reply to post by cartenz


I agree one hundred percent with both of your last posts, It just becomes a diplomatic chess game at this point, I am just more willing to think that whoever might have more at stake to lose, will be willing to take the most drastic measure to make sure Snowden is apprehended by any means, the unknown at play is what cards in the way of information Snowden might be in possesion of since he planned the entire thing , which makes him both an asset for an enemy and a major liability to the U.S. and their interests.

That coupled with Wikileaks salivating over these possibilities to add to their database, I always think this also, nothing comes for free, I do not believe Assange helped Snowden not thinking he might be able to add to his Wikileaks infosec trove in the future if there are other secrets.

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by antoinemarionette
I think you are forgetting about the international implications of this very detailed revelation:

Even though most of the debate has been focusing on the person of Snowden and the role/reaction of the U.S. government, Europe is directly concerned by the massive U.S. snooping on European citizens. So how has Europe reacted to this crisis so far? As expressed by the Guardian, “Officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their U.S. counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic rights.”

Source

This could, and in my opinion already has, result in a very serious international incident with long term implications.

Yes, it is an act of war.

Sadly, as a British citizen I'm spied on no matter which way i look at it - so I doubt there is much chance of us taking action against Obama.

Agreed. The US is spying on its own allies' citizens.

Now that's a revelation!

reply to post by The0nlytruth


Ugghhh...

Snowden needs to stay as far away from wikileaks as possible..

Right now Snowden can be considered a whistle blower... Anything he does that goes beyond exposing the criminal actions will do nothing but focus the issue on Snowden and away from where it needs to be.

Originally posted by buster2010

“Snowden is not a traitor, he is not a spy he is a whistleblower who told the public the important truth,” he pointed out.

Assange is wrong in the eyes of the law Snowden is a traitor. Snowden threw his life away for a very stupid reason. He didn't tell anything anyone with half a brain didn't already know. Government officials over the decades has said from time to time that the government listens in on phone calls and the spying on other nations well a person would have to no brain to not know that was happening.

......I think I found some of your brain over here! This was a message to those who "did not know" in case you have been on ATS to long and lost perspective on the hordes of MSNBC, CNN, FOX,ABC,NBC viewers out there thats about 70% of the US population over the course of a week or so, most of which, are missing half their brain.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Exactly, before now we had no documented evidence of what we all suspected.

Sure there was evidence. How many times have places like Google, Yahoo and other places that complained about the government wanting peoples information. The evidence was out there people just didn't want to see it.

Wow, I agree with you on this. That happens quite frequently. Stars all the way around for you!

Originally posted by cartenz

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by cartenz
reply to post by buster2010

 

Its not about what we already knew--its about a paper trail of evidence. Without collecting the appropriate evidence then we would have no way of putting these criminals in the alphabet agencies on trial.

What criminals? Have you forgotten the patriot act? They wanted this because they knew sooner or later someone would spill the beans so they passed something that made it legal. How do you make something illegal legal in Washington? Simple just say it's for national defense.

The criminals that started an un-just war after they flew planes into their largest banks--or did you miss how they got the PATRIOT Act passed?

What planes were flew into what banks?

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Exactly, before now we had no documented evidence of what we all suspected.

Sure there was evidence. How many times have places like Google, Yahoo and other places that complained about the government wanting peoples information. The evidence was out there people just didn't want to see it.

Approaching a company with a proper warrant and asking for information on a specific person is a very different thing to the system Snowden has exposed. If they follow the due process and do it that way I don't really mind. You're comparing apples with oranges.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by cartenz

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by cartenz
reply to post by buster2010

 

Its not about what we already knew--its about a paper trail of evidence. Without collecting the appropriate evidence then we would have no way of putting these criminals in the alphabet agencies on trial.

What criminals? Have you forgotten the patriot act? They wanted this because they knew sooner or later someone would spill the beans so they passed something that made it legal. How do you make something illegal legal in Washington? Simple just say it's for national defense.

The criminals that started an un-just war after they flew planes into their largest banks--or did you miss how they got the PATRIOT Act passed?

What planes were flew into what banks?

Merryl-Lynch, CitiBank, et al all has offices in the WTC; There is dispute on what planes were used.

But yeah, you're welcome to keep your head in the sand--Deny Ignorance?

Originally posted by buster2010

“Snowden is not a traitor, he is not a spy he is a whistleblower who told the public the important truth,” he pointed out.

Assange is wrong in the eyes of the law Snowden is a traitor. Snowden threw his life away for a very stupid reason. He didn't tell anything anyone with half a brain didn't already know. Government officials over the decades has said from time to time that the government listens in on phone calls and the spying on other nations well a person would have to no brain to not know that was happening.

I would say that calling someone, who put his life on the line for his countrymen, a traitor is the act of an individual with no brain.

Originally posted by buster2010

“Snowden is not a traitor, he is not a spy he is a whistleblower who told the public the important truth,” he pointed out.

Assange is wrong in the eyes of the law Snowden is a traitor. Snowden threw his life away for a very stupid reason. He didn't tell anything anyone with half a brain didn't already know. Government officials over the decades has said from time to time that the government listens in on phone calls and the spying on other nations well a person would have to no brain to not know that was happening.

The difference is the Government has always claimed it only spied on those suspected of a crime. A suspicion backed up by enough evidence to obtain a warrant.

What Snowden and others have revealed is a level of blanket spying, unmatched by anything considered either legal or justified by the majority of ordinary people...in short, Snowden hasn't done anything illegal nor traitorous, as it was his DUTY to inform the public when their rights are violated and their government agencies are comiting a crime against them.

That isn't a crime, that's his moral and legal duty...there's a big difference there. Of course the NSA and the Obama government sees it differently, as they are the ones being traitors to the people and breaking their own laws! The guilty very often point the finger at others to get themselves off the hook in the peoples minds.

Obama has lied his pompous face off, repeatedly and while under oath...Snowden told the people the truth they had both deserved and had the right to know. And you reckon Snowden is the traitor?

Snowden and others with the moral courage to stand up to powerful liars and traitors are not traitors, they're are modern day heroes of the people...we all die eventually, Snowden, far from throwing his life away, has immortalised himself as a hero that wouldn't bow to will of criminals busy hoodwinking and betraying the trust the people have placed in them...that's not for nothing.

If i will be remembered after my death, i would sincerley hope it's for an act of courage and heroism such as Snowdens act, rather than being a liar and a corrupt manipulator like those who seek to label him a traitor.

Well done Mr. Snowden...and thank you for being real.

Originally posted by buster2010

“Snowden is not a traitor, he is not a spy he is a whistleblower who told the public the important truth,” he pointed out.

Assange is wrong in the eyes of the law Snowden is a traitor. Snowden threw his life away for a very stupid reason. He didn't tell anything anyone with half a brain didn't already know. Government officials over the decades has said from time to time that the government listens in on phone calls and the spying on other nations well a person would have to no brain to not know that was happening.

This....


i cannot stress how much i agree with the above post, i have seriously considered posting a rant about this,
Did anyone on here really believe or were they really unaware the government log internet usage, do key word searches hold all your logs and blogs, i thought it was common knowledge that it has been getting done on phones for around 30 years or so in the UK with keyword scanning (that i know of).


as such it seems like all this is being blown out of proportion, do the facebook\google\linkd-in\apple generation really believe that if they put there information on servers that they wont be used, scanned, maintained and vetted?? i beleive the biggest outcome of this is tuley showing how niave the world clearly was about digital privacy, and what the government and big industry use the internet for....


as such, what he done was surely something which didnt need to be done as liek the above poster said, he is now branded a traitor bringing forward information that as far as i was aware most switched on people knew about.....

Originally posted by GeneralChaos
I fail to see what any of this has to do with "the Obama Administration" as this spying has been going on for quite some time now. Through the Bush administration as well.

It is amazing how people cling to their ignorance like a warm fuzzy blanket on a cold night.

This has NOTHING to do with "Obama".
It has NOTHING to do with "Terrorists".
It has NOTHING to do with corporations.

It has EVERYTHING to do with a very few, very powerful, banking families who seek to bring this world under their complete and total control by completely enslaving us with technology so that they may then hand over the reigns to the one/s whom they serve.

The one/s whom they serve is who this is really all about.

Presidents, corporations, "terrorists" and "banking families" are just some of the vehicles they use in order to accomplish this task.

The movie is playing out right in front of us and all most people seem to be able to do is comment on individual little pixels and how bright they are.

edit on 24-6-2013 by GeneralChaos because: (no reason given)

This seems like such a stretch anymore, but it does not take much history to follow and it reveals itself.
It in the end always seems to point to where the money is and where it's going. Anything that does not seem right with the world has a trace back to the bankers and another truck load of money they have made and the power that comes with it.

Originally posted by buster2010

“Snowden is not a traitor, he is not a spy he is a whistleblower who told the public the important truth,” he pointed out.

Assange is wrong in the eyes of the law Snowden is a traitor. Snowden threw his life away for a very stupid reason. He didn't tell anything anyone with half a brain didn't already know. Government officials over the decades has said from time to time that the government listens in on phone calls and the spying on other nations well a person would have to no brain to not know that was happening.

No brain you say? You mean kinda like 99 percent of Americans? I would argue that the people trying to discredit Snowden are the real brainless.

He brought this whole spy ring to the forefront of national attention at a time when most folks are more worried about Kim and Kanyes baby than what their own government is doing. The more attention brought to this the better. The more people talking about this the better and the more people that read these documents and get pissed off about it the better. It means that maybe people have put their kool-aid down for a second. My two cents anyways.