The Story of how the Bible came about, in 3 minutes

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Dear ThinkingHuman,

Since you say yourself that 'Jesus told us to be good slaves' then why was the Bible written, if not to tell us to be good slaves? How did that come about that they were already enslaved? Please tell me this. Do you consider it coincidence that (I presume, correct me if I am wrong) you were raised in the culture that believes in the Bible. Is it coincidence that the vast majority of people in our culture do not believe in the Mahabarata or the Baghavad Gita? And vice versa, the vast majority of people in India do not believe in the Bible? IMO, this is clear statistical evidence that there is a psychological mechanism to make us believe in a religion during the time when we are highly suggestable (such as childhood, or while under stress).

Most people choose their religion like they choose their clothes or political beliefs. They don't have deep beliefs, they like to know how others see them. They want to be seen a certain way, to be accepted. That is not faith, that is acceptance.

As for me, I became an agnostic at 12. I left the Catholic church because I was not convinced, not because they were evil, they were not, I was not convinced of some of their dogma. I spent over a decade researching all the religions. I studied Indian religions and was not convinced by them. The question is not which religion is right, the bigger question is if there is a God or not. Start with that one.

Is there eternity, is there a greater sentience, do we continue once this play has ended? Your answer to those question will determine whether or not it is worthwhile to understand who and what God may be. I don't ask anyone to believe in God, that is an individual choice and we can live with our decisions. If you could choose who God was, how would you choose him to act. As a giant Santa Claus who only brings you gifts or one that promotes you being challenged and growing because eternity is a long time. Peace.

Originally posted by Paschar0

 

The main argument is that God "inspired" the authors to write it

Maybe we should start a thread on how our alien overlords are using this to look for humans that are obedient enough to believe in religion in order to be further processed!

I entirely agree with what you say. (Just might suggest to call it "spiritually" inspired). Yes, there is definitely a twist trying to keep us stupid, and only have us multiply. It specifically says that humans should not rely, or "lean upon your own understanding" (Pr 3:5) and that knowledge of the "times and seasons" (1TH 5:1) must be kept from us.

Originally posted by AQuestion

 

As for me, I became an agnostic at 12. I left the Catholic church because I was not convinced, not because they were evil, they were not, I was not convinced of some of their dogma. I spent over a decade researching all the religions. I studied Indian religions and was not convinced by them. The question is not which religion is right, the bigger question is if there is a God or not. Start with that one.

Is there eternity, is there a greater sentience, do we continue once this play has ended? Peace.

Kudos for you, AQ. I respect people who spent an effort on something as fundamental as this. Do you really contemplate eternity? For me, this seems impossible, just like the origin of the universe. Whether Big Bang or God, so far nobody has been able to tell me what came before them or caused them. I rather limit my "thought experiment" to the 'greater sentience'. For me God is the spirit within us. We may disagree but I respect your belief and thank you for courtesy and your contribution.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Dear ThinkingHuman,

Kudos for you, AQ. I respect people who spent an effort on something as fundamental as this. Do you really contemplate eternity? For me, this seems impossible, just like the origin of the universe. Whether Big Bang or God, so far nobody has been able to tell me what came before them or caused them. I rather limit my "thought experiment" to the 'greater sentience'. For me God is the spirit within us. We may disagree but I respect your belief and thank you for courtesy and your contribution.

There is a line in the New Testament, it says we have an answer for the hope that lies within us. I like that line. I don't convince anyone of anything, I need to be able to explain why I believe as I do. I think that applies to all of us. My mother was a very devout Catholic and very smart. When I was very young she said the thing that scared her was thought of eternity. She could not understand how we could be happy, satisfied if we lived for eternity. It is a tough question and I spent my life asking myself if any answer could work. I may be a Christian now; but, I have always been a puzzle solver and that is a tough one.

The only answer to eternity is eternal change and the only good answer to eternal change is eternal growth. Only God knows everything, the rest of us can eternally know more. Sorry if I don't meet the expectations of what others think I am supposed to believe. LOL. In my view, the bible gives enough; but, clearly it does not answer every question and doesn't claim to.

As for being courteous, you have been too. There is nothing I can find offensive in anything you have asked and we don't have to agree on the answers.

The way I see it. There was sentience in the universe, there must have been because there still is. Sentience always was; but, what to do if you know you are and that is all you know. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. God means "I Am", it is a recognition that sentience is all that we can know. Descartes understood this to a degree. He said, "I think therefore I am". Yep, that would be right.

When I first came on ATS, I saw how anti-believer some were. I smoked them out, lol. You exist, I exist, that is the one thing we can know. When some deny that I have no idea how to respond. I told them, you are trying to prove that you do not exist? There is no way for them to prove that and it is stupid for them to try to and they went away.

Whether you believe in God or not is completely up to you. Eternity is real because time exists. Whether the world is material or spiritual, the universe is real and we are real. If there is eternity, is there a better answer to how the sentient can survive it in a healthy manner. That is the deepest question that we all have to face. We can be God (all that is) or we can be part of God and continually grow. At least that is the answer I arrived at, it was a little more complicated; but, we are limited in how many letters we can type. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


Interesting, but if time is linear and a physical perception, God or anything outside that physical realm aren't subject to it's rules are they? What a thousand years feels like to us, likely doesn't exist outside earth, much less other dimensions.

Is it possible our spiritual energy is indestructible and is the reason why it's lifespan is referred to as infinite in all religions? Perhaps once we shed our temporary physical bodies, all the knowledge and memories of the ages flows back to us and maybe it's not growth we're really after, but simply experience.

I've never thought of myself AS God, but I hope very much we're a PART of God in that my energy, your energy all somehow matter and come together again in some way. This life and all other experiences are small parts of the universe "breathing" in and out, cycling through countless big bangs, all to allow us various paths of experience. Seems somewhat narrow minded to believe this one tiny little short life is all there is to be "judged" by for eternity doesn't it?

Religion, which the bible is firmly a part of, and all scripture, was written by man and hopefully at the least influenced by God. It was then interpreted at least somewhat correctly from each man it originated from, and again translated, hopefully correctly, after that. None of us really knows to what extent these interpretations may differ from it's author's true meaning, or if they were even legitimate, it's all just blind faith in the end. Culture, knowledge, fear, tradition, love, and of course physcology along with all the other things that make us human determine how strong this belief is in each of us and for some, there's a spiritual connection that helps us validate things further. In the end I suspect the "truth" is somewhere in the midst of it all and man's feeble attempts to interpret it are like everything else we've created...imperfect and gloriously human.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by borntowatch

 

Distortion, ignorance, or inability to read? Which one is it?

I said "There is nothing wrong with the message to love one another".
I quoted what John said - maybe you WISH it would say something else.
It seems that you know nothing of Christianity - at least you don't show any.
Next time read my post, and the Bible.

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?


I have read the bible, you pick and choose verse to justify your position

You proved my point, again. They saw Jesus, not God, despite what Jesus SAID, that does not make it so.
Don't you choose the quotes to support your position?

You quoted half the verse of John 1. I corrected it
God has been seen in Jesus, Jesus is God

Jesus is the Father, thats why the Jews killed Him, it was blasphemous to them for Jesus to say that.
You dont understand what you read

As Jesus said
John 10:30
New International Version (NIV)
30 I and the Father are one.”


Jesus is the visible form of God the Father

Now if you dont believe that fine but it seems silly to use scripture that you dont accept to support your argument.

Originally posted by Paschar0
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Interesting, but if time is linear and a physical perception, God or anything outside that physical realm aren't subject to it's rules are they? What a thousand years feels like to us, likely doesn't exist outside earth, much less other dimensions.

Is it possible our spiritual energy is indestructible and is the reason why it's lifespan is referred to as infinite in all religions? Perhaps once we shed our temporary physical bodies, all the knowledge and memories of the ages flows back to us and maybe it's not growth we're really after, but simply experience.

I've never thought of myself AS God, but I hope very much we're a PART of God in that my energy, your energy all somehow matter and come together again in some way. This life and all other experiences are small parts of the universe "breathing" in and out, cycling through countless big bangs, all to allow us various paths of experience. Seems somewhat narrow minded to believe this one tiny little short life is all there is to be "judged" by for eternity doesn't it?

Religion, which the bible is firmly a part of, and all scripture, was written by man and hopefully at the least influenced by God. It was then interpreted at least somewhat correctly from each man it originated from, and again translated, hopefully correctly, after that. None of us really knows to what extent these interpretations may differ from it's author's true meaning, or if they were even legitimate, it's all just blind faith in the end. Culture, knowledge, fear, tradition, love, and of course physcology along with all the other things that make us human determine how strong this belief is in each of us and for some, there's a spiritual connection that helps us validate things further. In the end I suspect the "truth" is somewhere in the midst of it all and man's feeble attempts to interpret it are like everything else we've created...imperfect and gloriously human.

Dear Paschar0,

The bible says that a thousand years to us is but a day to God. Time is awareness and awareness is linear, we grow and we learn. I am not who I was yesterday and yet, still I am a continuation of my thoughts.As for being judged, we are judged as we judge so we should not judge. We are all imperfect or we are not. If I believe we are all imperfect including myself, am I judging others or recognizing our state of existence? The moment I think I am better than others, means I think there is a degree of imperfect and then I am judging. I do not judge, I am imperfect. I am alive and human.

reply to post by booyakasha



This is a replyfor WhoKnows100

The point why I did not include scripture in my post, is that scripture was written by men, not a God.

Its man who has made the emendation to creation when he decided to call the creator his Father. Despite the fact the planet shows clear evidence of a period of some 3/4 billions years of evolution, during which even the continents have moved apart twice, and life has begun on more than one occasion.

The wisdom that one cannot 'know' God seems the obvious to me.

reply to post by booyakasha


Bookakasha

Sorry for hitting the wrong button , my post was for WhoKnows100.

I thought your post was very valid and starred it.

reply to post by Murgatroid


I wonder before you label people and their books, have you actually read Blavatsky?

You will find a great deal of wisdom in her books and, like everyone else you don't necessarily agree with all that is written.

Witch is simply a word that meant wise woman. Name throwing is very childish.

Text The organization became so successful that it became a worldwide religion. After the old man had died the son took his place and called himself the "Pope". The most powerful of the shepards often

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Hey - ThinkingHuman

Did I read this wrong or did you say that God was this old man and that God died? Just when I was beginning to buy into your story you kill God. What about his son? Does he get the ax too? Come on I can hardly wait for the ending of your story.

reply to post by Paschar0


Dear Paschar0,

Religion, which the bible is firmly a part of, and all scripture, was written by man and hopefully at the least influenced by God. It was then interpreted at least somewhat correctly from each man it originated from, and again translated, hopefully correctly, after that. None of us really knows to what extent these interpretations may differ from it's author's true meaning, or if they were even legitimate, it's all just blind faith in the end. Culture, knowledge, fear, tradition, love, and of course physcology along with all the other things that make us human determine how strong this belief is in each of us and for some, there's a spiritual connection that helps us validate things further. In the end I suspect the "truth" is somewhere in the midst of it all and man's feeble attempts to interpret it are like everything else we've created...imperfect and gloriously human.

I don't believe anyone can perfectly understand God or the bible and I don't believe we need to. When asked what the greatest commandment was, Jesus said to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. He simplified it so that anyone could understand.

Originally posted by AQuestion

 

recognition that sentience is all that we can know. Descartes understood this to a degree. He said, "I think therefore I am"

AQ, (sorry for the delayed response, I had to take care of some things), I would agree that 'recognition that sentience is all that we can know'. Just to be clear on the meaning of the word, sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. Anything alive must have sentience in order to be able to ingest food, process it internally, reproduce, etc. Even inert objects may require sentience in order to self-assemble. Should Descartes not have said "I perceive, therefore I am"?

I'd like to make an observation: Some processes feed on themselves, they are, in a way, self-replicating, once they were started. Examples, fire, nuclear fusion and fission. Maybe what we perceive as time and space fall into that category also?

Eternity is real because time exists. (It) is the deepest question that we all have to face.

I disagree with these statements. There is no causal relationship between 'Eternity is real' and 'time exists'. Secondly, I don't believe that it is relevant. The universe will exist much longer than us. Faith in God provides comfort but faith that the universe will exist eternally, IMO, does not provide comfort. But since you believe this you must have an answer to "Who or what created God?"

I like to ask people who believe in the Bible if they believe that it states the truth literally or that it uses methaphors that must be interpreted. I reject those who try to have it both ways. In order to have a meaningful discussion about the Bible one's position must be clarified. Can you please what is your position on this?

Originally posted by borntowatch

 

Jesus is the visible form of God the Father

You can make that argument, yes, but it is a silly argument. Either 'he' is human or 'it' is God. If you want to have it both ways, IMO, you are irrational. Many frauds have claimed to be an incarnation of God, to be prophets, etc. I repeat: Jesus' claim that he is God (maybe true - but does not mean that by seeing Jesus you 'see' God.

Now if you dont believe that fine but it seems silly to use scripture that you dont accept to support your argument.

It seems silly to me to claim, that proving a document is fraudulent should be done without testing the document.

Originally posted by Paschar0

 

Is it possible our spiritual energy is indestructible and is the reason why it's lifespan is referred to as infinite in all religions? I've never thought of myself AS God, but I hope very much we're a PART of God in that my energy, your energy all somehow matter and come together again in some way.

Nothing in the universe gets detroyed into nothing. Every energy gets converted into another form. ""I will tell you a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed" (1Cor 15:51)

Religion, which the bible is firmly a part of, and all scripture, was written by man and hopefully at the least influenced by God. It was then interpreted at least somewhat correctly

Paschar, I believe in spiritual energy because I sense it (as in 'sentience'). And many people nowayds also sense it. I believe that the Bible is a good book in that it encourages us to do things that are good, for the most part. But how can it possibly tell me about God? Nobody has seen God, all the accounts of God are biased, and humans are certainly too flawed to be the product of an Almighty.

So why is there a 'Bible'? Why does it talk about 'God'? What if my suggestion is true that there was a smart man, who already sensed the spirutal energy a long time ago? Is it possible that he invented that myth of a God in order to either enrich himself or for any other motive we can only imagine? The Greeks had created many myths of many Gods, hundreds of years before Jesus. Is that not a realistic possibility?

Why does the Bible tell us to 'love God' if he is not of earthly existence?

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Dear ThinkingHuman,

Firstly, I think we are having a good conversation and I do not feel any hostility from you and there is none meant from me. I also am not evangelical, people are free to come to their own conclusions. If in the end we both walk away feeling we were both sincere and presented our beliefs then I will be fine with that.

I would agree that 'recognition that sentience is all that we can know'. Just to be clear on the meaning of the word, sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. Anything alive must have sentience in order to be able to ingest food, process it internally, reproduce, etc. Even inert objects may require sentience in order to self-assemble. Should Descartes not have said "I perceive, therefore I am"? I'd like to make an observation: Some processes feed on themselves, they are, in a way, self-replicating, once they were started. Examples, fire, nuclear fusion and fission. Maybe what we perceive as time and space fall into that category also?

In regards to sentience, we are actually of a similar mind. I think I would have said I experience emotion therefore I am because as I see it we experience emotion before we actually have what we would consider "thoughts", though the distinction gets a little fuzzy. I do not necessarily agree that everything that is considered biologically alive or inerts have emotions. A physical reaction is not necessarily emotion. As for time and space. Einstein said that time was the movement of matter through space. I disagree, it is a measure of something and can be calculated; but, there is more than one definition of time. From a sentience standpoint, time is the evolution of thought and emotion, the changing of them. Sometimes in emergencies time can appear to slow down to the person experiencing it.

I disagree with these statements. There is no causal relationship between 'Eternity is real' and 'time exists'. Secondly, I don't believe that it is relevant. The universe will exist much longer than us. Faith in God provides comfort but faith that the universe will exist eternally, IMO, does not provide comfort. But since you believe this you must have an answer to "Who or what created God?" I like to ask people who believe in the Bible if they believe that it states the truth literally or that it uses methaphors that must be interpreted. I reject those who try to have it both ways. In order to have a meaningful discussion about the Bible one's position must be clarified. Can you please what is your position on this?

Lets try the two statements in a different order. Time exists therefore eternity is real. As for the universe, it does not exist if there is no sentience to be aware of it. We seem to disagree on that point; but, our definition of time is not the same. While I believe we are off topic, it is your OP and you can modify what you ask, in my humble opinion.

As for who or what created God, Einstein said that energy could neither be created or destroyed. Is not sentience a form of energy? What if rather than matter morphing into sentience, sentience created matter. It could all just be in our minds.

I like your last question, were you raised by fundamentalists? There are many examples in the bible of metaphors. Jesus spoke in parables often. The bible has both. The Old Testament had many purposes; but, we have to understand what people were like at the time and few read. Does it really matter if the earth was made in 7 days? We assume that meant 7, 24 hour periods; but, a day is relative and it says that a day to God is like a thousand years to us. I believe that to be a metaphor also, it could be a billion days to us. A day on Saturn is different than a day on the earth.

Can you imagine the Old Testament trying to explain quantum physics to people who barely got math? It would be silly to attempt to explain things in terms they could not possibly understand. I have watched many Christians argue over the meaningless and miss what matters. What is meaningful about the bible is how we are to treat one another.

Let me ask you a question. The bible said that one day it would be read througout the whole world at a time when nobody knew what the whole world was. It said that once that happened people would leave the church, a great falling away. Why would anyone make such a prediction? In fact, no other religion has and 2,000 later both predictions proved true. Do you not find that worthy of some consideration? Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion
AQ, you asked me two direct questions so I want to answer those first. I was raised and confirmed Lutheran but there was little emphasis for me to attend church. I was always curious but without firm conviction about God. Because of my family, I attend church regularly now. My firm belief that I have arrived at is in contradiction to my family's but, of course, I have no animosity toward them or others who share the belief in God. But I don't view God as something universally good because crusades, inquisition, wars have been waged in God's name, and according to the Bible, with God's approval. This speaks to the aspect that the Bible and religion in general is a conspiracy to make people kill others in order for the king to enrich himself. It is a conspiracy to suppress the weaker sex, to justify slavery, etc.

To the other question, somebody who sets out for such a conspiracy must be a radical zealot. A good example would be Alexander, who had an empire of millions of square miles by the age of 30. Infact, you might say that it included the whole world at the time. I don't see a 'great falling away' and I don't know where you referenced it from. But a person smart enough to conquer a world-wide empire may have been also smart enough to realize that people with greater awareness and better communication tools may start to question ancient beliefs that were transmitted by much more primitive people, with less ability to describe observed phenomena. So, no, I don't consider it significant as a prophesy. To the contrary, I view the possibility that it may come true with concern because "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven" would not be a 'godly' regime, it would be a tyranny. That, again, relates to the issue the Bible was created and still is used today for the purpose of a conspiracy, a world-wide conspiracy.

Now, about the Bible, yes it does matter if the earth was created in 7 days. Because if it was not, either the author was ignorant of the truth, or he lied about it. Since the Bible is professed to be the word of God, ignorance is impossible. If the author lied, then one must wonder what else he lied about. You say that one day is like a thousand years for God. If this is correct, and the Bible was written for humans, then why does the Bible not say the universe was created in 7000 years? But even this does not seem to be accurate according to modern science. But if the author lied, and of course he did so with the collaboration of others, than this is a conspiracy. I understand, this is only an example but you can do the same for any other detail, many are simply to support the conspiracy.

My favorite lie is that Mary was still a virgin after she got pregnant. Does it say anywhere that she was examined by a doctor? If she got pregnant because of an affair or a rape, I can see why she would not want to disclose such a fact. She was smart enough to turn it around and change this disaster into a windfall. Billions of people believe - without any support whatsoever when we all should know better. She out-performed any Hollywood star.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Dear ThinkingHuman,

Why do you attend church if you do not believe? Remember I am not an Evangelical, I have told many non-believers that they shouldn't waste their time in church if it is just to impress others or they think they have to because of the community they live in. If you go to church then you know that we are to have an answer for the hope that lies within us, you began with questions, I responded. Don't ask questions if you don't want to really understand the answers. By the way, your anger at God is apparent; but, you have been polite on the thread.

But I don't view God as something universally good because crusades, inquisition, wars have been waged in God's name, and according to the Bible, with God's approval. This speaks to the aspect that the Bible and religion in general is a conspiracy to make people kill others in order for the king to enrich himself. It is a conspiracy to suppress the weaker sex, to justify slavery, etc.

Please define "good", Are you referencing easy and happy? That is not good. Life is not Club Med and nowhere does it say that in the bible. It says life is pain and challenge. As far as approval, if I choose to kill someone does he need to approve or am I allowed free will? You read the bible with today's understanding of society, it was not that way in the beginning. Women in Judaism had rights that those around them did not. I can go back and quote earlier things you said; but, you already said you believed in a universal sentience, that is God. You just want him to be something other than what he is. Perhaps a giant Santa Clause that makes sure we are never challenged? Unless you are a minor and I doubt that very much, you don't have to go to church to please your family and that is not the reason you do go.

When a woman was on her period the Jews were told that her husband was not to have sex with her and let her be alone. Some see that as treating women as weaker. Nope, other cultures would have forced her to have sex when she absolutely did not want to. I lived with 5 women in my house ages 14 to 94, I knew better than to be around when they were all on their period at the same time.

I don't see a 'great falling away' and I don't know where you referenced it from.

To the contrary, I view the possibility that it may come true with concern because "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven" would not be a 'godly' regime, it would be a tyranny. That, again, relates to the issue the Bible was created and still is used today for the purpose of a conspiracy, a world-wide conspiracy.

You don't see a great falling away, look at Europe, the birth place of Protestantism. Don't be coy, I can flood you with stats on this and you can easily look them up yourself. To claim that someone 2,000 years ago could have predicted any of the communication we have today is just not sincere. Show me who did and you don't get to use the bible. You complain that God controlling the world in the future would be tyranny yet, you wish him to take control now and make everyone nice and stop all pain. That is a contradiction.

Now, about the Bible, yes it does matter if the earth was created in 7 days.

How long was the first day when there was no earth? A day is the difference between darkness and light on a given spot or do you have a different definition? Just so you understand, I have been on ATS for more than a hot second and you can go back and will discover my answer to this question has not changed. It is a question you ask christians who don't think at all. Do your really think I just blindly follow anything, do my answers show that shallowness in my thinking?

My favorite lie is that Mary was still a virgin after she got pregnant.

So you accept that Mary existed and had a child named Jesus? Or are you just going through a list of possible mistakes in the bible? People have children today without having sex. Nobody even knew that was possible until now.

I don't know what happened in your life that made you so angry and I don't need to. I will listen and respond if you tell me; but, that is up to you. You are not looking for the God of the bible, you are looking to tell God who he needs to be. You believe there is a God, you just want him to do what you want him to do. Satanists think the exact same way, did you know that? Satanists use exorcism rights to "control" demons to get what they want. Here is a question for you, do you spend as much time talking to Satanists to prove them wrong as spend talking to believers? Peace.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by borntowatch

 

Jesus is the visible form of God the Father

You can make that argument, yes, but it is a silly argument. Either 'he' is human or 'it' is God. If you want to have it both ways, IMO, you are irrational. Many frauds have claimed to be an incarnation of God, to be prophets, etc. I repeat: Jesus' claim that he is God (maybe true - but

does not mean that by seeing Jesus you 'see' God.

Now if you dont believe that fine but it seems silly to use scripture that you dont accept to support your argument.

It seems silly to me to claim, that proving a document is fraudulent should be done without testing the document.

I dont make that claim/argument, its biblical
You dont have to believe it....freewill

I think your premise is based on limited human knowledge, not just yours but every ones.
Some things we just dont understand

Originally posted by AQuestion

 

your anger at God is apparent

It seems to me that I crossed a line of sensitivity with you. I am sorry, this was not my intent. But I don't believe I have said anything different from what I have said before. And remember, you are on a site called "Above Top Secret" in a forum called "Conspiracy in Religion".

"Why do you attend church if you do not believe?" This is a fair question. But let me have you ponder the question first for yourself. Trying to impress God? Your family? Because God is in that church? Because God would not approve of you if you didn't go? Why do you go (I mean this seriously)?

I go because it is a spiritual place and I believe that there is a spiritual world beyond what we see. Our spirit when it leaves the body must go somewhere, and exist in a different form (Nothing gets destroyed into nothing). The Bible often gives me clues about that world because it was written and/or inspired by smart people (check my quote from 1Cor). Many times when I leave I feel spiritually elevated.

I also go because I have no anger or hate for the church, I am retired and have a lot of time available (to write on ATS, to go to church, etc), because my family goes there, because it is a way for me to socialize, to study the Bible (even though I don't come to the same conclusion as you do, it significantly helped me to affirm my beliefs). I go because people who attend church are more grounded than those who don't, because people are nice to each other. Because I have the right to go. Because no other church matches exactly what I believe either. Do I need more?

What gives you the right to tell people who should go where and who should not? That is a personal decision. I'm just curious, why do you read and write on a thread about "Conspiracy in Religion" when you don't believe in that?

define "good". I try to use words according to its definition, plain and simple. It would make it easier if the Bible did so, too. You said, there are many metaphors and parables. Anybody can interpret those however it's convenient. In other words, the Bible means whatever people want it to mean.

You complain that God controlling the world in the future would be tyranny yet, you wish him to take control now and make everyone nice and stop all pain.

Again, I have come to disbelieve in a Christian God. So, No, I do not complain about God doing anything. But I am wary about those who claim to know what is "God's will", or what God did, or would do, or should do.

Just so you understand, I have been on ATS for more than a hot second ... do my answers show that shallowness in my thinking?

I was not trying to imply shallowness on your part, quite the contrary. That is why I gave you long answers.

a universal sentience, that is God

Does it say that in the Bible?

going through a list of possible mistakes in the bible?

This is a discussion about conspiracy in the Bible. Obviously, I need to refer to the parts that suggest a conspiracy. Is this to avoid addressing the issue? If Mary did not exist at all, that would even add to the conspiracy that I suggested about the fatherhood.

A day is the difference between darkness and light

So how long did it take? Or does it not matter? Do any facts matter or are they too inconvenient to analyze?

I am not a fndamentalist and I am not interested in Satan. If you cannot explain the contradictions I pointed out, that is okay. But it is the fault of the author that they exist. If the Bible is the Word of God, are you suggesting God made many mistakes?