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Open Discussion: Disclosure as Vindication of Secrecy?

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posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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Hello, all!
I'm a long-time lurker of this site, and I've tried to participate in some threads in a level-headed manner, doing my best to avoid going too far down any particular rabbit hole. Today a thought struck me that was interesting enough (to my mind, at least) that I felt the need to make my very first thread about it. I'm not asking for anyone to take it easy on me, but I do ask that some thought be given either for or against the general idea.

Mods, if this is the wrong forum for this particular thread, I apologize in advance.

In the current culture of security scandals and the government performing damage control on issues that may or may not be damning to the various Administrations, our government must find it hard to justify it's behavior based on the fact that if there were any outstanding victories, they would undoubtedly be classified victories and therefore unavailable for the Average Joe to understand.

The closest I can get to this line of thinking, while trying to remain objective about the question as a whole is the way the Manhattan Project was handled, or D-Day. These were massively secret projects that I would argue were performed with the best interests of America at heart. The only reason we know about these victories is the fact that eventually the information behind these projects was declassified, and they stand as indications that having deeply classified information and projects can be for the general benefit of your average American.

The problem with such victorious milestones is their relative infrequency. The Manhattan Project and Operation Overlord are far enough in the past now that their impact has been dulled. I feel that we, as the Public,
need more examples of they way the government has worked diligently behind the scenes for our benefit by declassifying some older projects that have demonstrably been successful for our mutual safety,

I think that the time has come to begin declassifying whatever lies behind the UFO question as a show of how such things are truly handled. I believe that an inside look into the policies and methods used there will aid in understanding the motivations behind how such things are handled today. Whether or not there is anything of substantial impact to the cover-up itself is not really the point of the exercise
(call it the Mother of All Fringe Benefits). How an entire network of support, secrecy, oversight and denial sprang up and has been maintained through different Administrations will outline how such things are done today, and more importantly, why such organizations react as they do.

To wrap it up, I feel that the time has come for the American People to be shown a modern example of a massive, declassified project. Better judgement can be used at that time. Without showing the public something, ANYTHING, The Powers That Be will always be on the defensive. Justified or not.

It's time to decide.

I'm interested to hear opinions! Hopefully this can become a lively debate.




posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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i agree with you 100% if they know everything about us lets know everything about them ??and the secrets



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 


I agree that it is time for this disclosure, but has it ever occurred to you, that possibly the government isn't handling the alien situation in such a great way, and the reason for them not disclosing the information is because they feel if their handling came to light, that their might be an even greater backlash then the Snowden one that they are experiencing now.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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I just honestly believe that if we knew more about the hows and whys of the UFO subject and Cover-Up, some criticism can be applied where it is deserved concerning the current stack of Security Crises, and not just slung in a general direction over everything. You can't understand how you got where you are without examining the landmarks you passed along the way.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by StarsInDust
 


If this is the case, than it is even more important that the salient details are brought to light, so that they may be considered and possibly fixed. If thinking and policy continue to bounce off the same walls and get filtered through the same people for too long, there is little wonder that stagnation and blundering occur.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 

True, if we learned the truth, we could give praise or criticism where it is appropriate. I just have a feeling that the reason this topic is such a touchy thing with the military is that they have far too many unscrupulous circumstances than they are willing to share.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 

I agree,they should be brought to light, but if the criminals are the disclosures, than there is probably not going to be a whole lot of disclosing going on.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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My biggest concern with declassifying "all" UFO related documents is how certain could we be that we have "all" of them, and that they are accurate?

Case in point: The Roswell incident provides a good example, the government provided up to 3 stories,

1. Flying Saucer Crashed.

2. Mylar Balloon

3. Mogul Balloon + dummies + misidentification

The problem was that if you looked closely at both the stories and documents of 2 and 3 they are full of inconsistencies. It could happen that they may release only certain mundane UFO related documents and/or fabricated or altered documents.

Also some of the agencies don't keep documents (that could be declassified), they follow the rule of "nothing on paper".



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by StarsInDust
 


I am a firm believer in the idea that we reap what we sow. I firmly believe the seeds for our current crisis of conscience were sown during the UFO affair. Anything grown in the shadow of fear and oppression is going to be monstrous and seductive. Even knowing the extent of the corruption would be a step in the right direction.

Even knowing just that much I could count as a victory of sorts. Eventually these practices piss off a critical mass of people, and change happens.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by deloprator20000
 


The beautiful part about a Disclosure would be the inevitable release of all contradictory "official" stories. Know the enemy by the path he leaves behind. By identifying that the so-called "guardians of truth" were but tools being manipulated as circumstances dictated shows a genesis of the paradigm that reigns even now.

For me, I'm more interested in "how did we get here, and how do we fix it". By showing the gatekeepers how shoddy and laughable their precious gate is, you get demands for better gates. And better guards.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Imagine life-forms from another planet were visiting Earth. TPTB know about these occurrences, although they don't fully understand it. They just know we're being observed, by something. (theoreticaly)

How would you go about disclosing that information to the public?
I myself, don't even think that would be a good idea.

A chain reaction would cascade throughout the world.
Peoples beliefs would be shaken to the core.
Fanatics would anxiously anticipate war, or judgment day, or whatever...

I'd imagine complete disclosure would come in the form of Breaking News.
- or perhaps, we may never know.
__

Maybe, they're already here. Assimilating with everyday people - observing.
Analyzing the 'beings' they themselves, discovered a long while ago.

Maybe they are our creators.

Or, maybe they're a lot like humanity, - and have no idea wtf is going on.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by iunlimited491
 


I understand your point of view. Socially, any kind of revelation of this magnitude would create reactions of varying intensity. That is the nature of such information upon a society that may or may not be ready for it. I contend that potentially greater damage has been wrought in the name of protecting us from such change. I can get behind the questioning of the whys and ifs, so long as the rest of the world shared the wonder.

To be actively derided and dissuaded and herded into believing and behaving in accordance with policies drawn up many decades ago by probably very frightened people forces an outcome. We become essentially vassals to Despotic Thought.

The best ideas are those that have changed and grown with time to remain relevant and useful. Our Constitution and Code of Laws are living documents. Much chaos would ensue were this not the case.

I really believe that by being secretive for so long, the guardians of this information are now hiding it for the sake of it remaining hidden. This in turn has colored all future projects in the secret world. I contend that the time is right to re-evaluate these things on their own merits in the context of today's world.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 

Whilst I definitely agree. This wont occur. Disclosure brings other truths with it. Such truths will enrage the average citizen and in turn bring down our entire government structure.

This will happen(is happening right now!) anyway. But I don't see anyone in the government doing anything at all that touches this issue willingly in a truthful manor.

What do we do when we find out the government has suppressed many different forms of technology for decades?

What do we do when we find out various elite factions have had access to such technology whilst impoverishing the entire globe?

Disclosure eventually leads directly to this.
edit on 23-6-2013 by Mandrakerealmz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Mandrakerealmz
 


I agree with you, but I humbly suggest that the hows are not quite so important as the whys. I honestly believe that the whys need to be established and critically examined. Old methods could be discarded and reform could happen. Ultimately Disclosure becomes a tool for a badly needed reform of our intelligence agencies.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 


Why? Because an energy independent citizenship is almost impossible to control. hence oil /petrol using population bound economically by the petro dollar system.

There are many whys to many facets of disclosure and the questions it brings with it. None of them are good enough all based in self interest. The population not being able to handle it is propaganda. If there is any truth to such claims maybe when we look at why our society is intellectually retarded in specific areas we might find similar people involved in keeping disclosure from occurring are also mis managing society as a whole and in some cases purposefully so.

Increasing crime in areas on purpose to create more criminals for their private prison corporations. This type of activity might negatively effect society. Somewhat making us more apprehensive of new paradigm shifting information.
edit on 23-6-2013 by Mandrakerealmz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by Mandrakerealmz
 


Excellent reasons, agreed. It would be nice to be able to choose to accept such things instead of being made to exist within the parameters imposed upon us by such Ministries of Truth. There comes a time when someone has to say "Enough," and actively try to improve. It just seems to me that starting serious work on Disclosure would begin a process that could potentially change things for the better, or at least add some factors to the equation to help begin to see the larger picture. I'd rather be informed than not.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 


mmm definitely so. Majestic 12 and other such groups days of operating in the shadows are numbered. Who says they get all the cool toys :/



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Vonotar
 


The point you seem to be missing is that those in power like it the way it is. They will never have enough secrecy, just as they will never have enough power. You are not dealing with normal people here; at that level you're dealing with poisonous psychopaths and malignant narcissists. No matter how reasonable and logical your arguments may seem to you, they will never be enough. Only massive revolt will ever bring it down. And then we'll start all over again, as new psychopaths are attracted to the power vacuum....




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